F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

[Quwa]

Let me know when this technology becomes available....maybe connect a modem to the F-16s and have it transmit the system off at 9.6 baud rate...

yaar blain, when this technology is available - can you hook me up with too? I need it for my car. BTW, the IAF still hasn't upgraded their MiG-29 and Mirage 2000s' ECM/EW systems; thus meaning, our F-16A/Bs are still very modern in South Asia.

 

[wangrui961]

Well no offense, but I am glad that you are not the president

The call on the F-16 was made after evaluating all options. The EF-2K and Rafale are just as sanctions-prone as the F-16s have the potential to be.

JF-17 would take another 5-10 years to become as good as the blk 52 F-16 (Chinese simply do not have the technical knowhow at this time to even make the J-10 equal to blk52 so PAF cannot keep on waiting...its a matter of carpe diem for the PAF b/c if we do not buy the blk 52s, we would be eating IAF's dust).

dare India?:flag: :flag:

 

[blain2]

yaar blain, when this technology is available - can you hook me up with too? I need it for my car. BTW, the IAF still hasn't upgraded their MiG-29 and Mirage 2000s' ECM/EW systems; thus meaning, our F-16A/Bs are still very modern in South Asia.

I agree. In the sub-continental context, even the ALQ-131 EW pods will cause problems for Indian air defence.....the M2Ks that the IAF flyes, PAF evaluated those and then 2 more iterations after that and found all three to be less than capable in terms of EW/ECM suites. MKI has some decent stuff but in general this is something that you do not compare between aircraft, rather you have to look at their effectiveness against emitters and radars typically deployed by the other side...as things stand, there is a lot of obsolete air defence stuff in both countries. Even an older pod with the capabilities of ALQ-131 would be fairly well off.

 

[MOO]

Pakistan puts off signing F-16 deal with US

Press Trust of India
Islamabad, September 22, 2006|18:20 IST



Pakistan has put off signing the letter of acceptance (LOA) for purchase of 36 F-16 fighters from the US after complaints from its air force that the planes were "bereft" of vital electronic warfare systems.

After the complaints, Pakistan's Ministry of Defence asked the US Secretary of Air Force International Affairs, (SAIFA), which is the coordinator and supervisor for the project, to extend the signing of LOA until December 31, Pakistani weekly Friday Times reported.

The last extension was sought on July 31 this year.

The deal was apparently deferred partly due to conditions imposed by the US on the operations of F-16s and the "absence" of vital electronic capabilities from these platforms.

Musharraf was expected to take up these issues when he meets President George W Bush in Washington on Friday.

"So the signing deal is off. Perhaps President Musharraf will try to extract some concessions during his meeting with Bush.

But the entire deal is likely to spark much more debate and change before finalisation," the weekly quoted a Pakistani official as saying.

According to the report, the F-16s were being offered without EW programme capabilities for their Radar Warning Receiver (RWR).

"This means that they will have pre-installed threat library and its RWR will only be able to identify Non-NATO aircraft," it quoted an expert as saying.

"Any NATO aircraft attacking these F-16s using Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capability could take them out easily simply because these F-16s would not know when they would be locked in sight of the attacking adversary and hence would be unable to take evasive measure," he said.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1803336,000500020000.htm

 

[MOO]

Pakistani weekly Friday Times reported that Pakistan has decided to postponed signing the letter of acceptance (LOA) for purchase of 36 F-16s after complains from its Air Force.

The PAF is unhappy that the F-16s were being offered without EW programme capabilities for their Radar Warning Receiver (RWR).

This means that they will have pre-installed threat library and its RWR will only be able to identify Non-NATO aircraft. When attacked by NATO aircraft, the F-16s are defenseless.

Uh oh. No point in buying those F16's if it doesn't have modern EW capabilities, a Su-30 can lock onto that F16 and the pilot would have no idea whatsoever that an Araamski is heading his way. No way can the F16 defend itself, this is bad.

These F16's cannot even fight back against Nato aircrafts, hm how can it defend itself from India if they option for Rafales or the Super Hornet? What a farken Ripoff!

Time to hop onto the EU bandwagon and go for Gripens or Typhoons! Whose with me on this one?

 

[Owais]

Pakistan puts off signing F-16 deal with US

Press Trust of India
Islamabad, September 22, 2006|18:20 IST



Pakistan has put off signing the letter of acceptance (LOA) for purchase of 36 F-16 fighters from the US after complaints from its air force that the planes were "bereft" of vital electronic warfare systems.

After the complaints, Pakistan's Ministry of Defence asked the US Secretary of Air Force International Affairs, (SAIFA), which is the coordinator and supervisor for the project, to extend the signing of LOA until December 31, Pakistani weekly Friday Times reported.

The last extension was sought on July 31 this year.

The deal was apparently deferred partly due to conditions imposed by the US on the operations of F-16s and the "absence" of vital electronic capabilities from these platforms.

Musharraf was expected to take up these issues when he meets President George W Bush in Washington on Friday.

"So the signing deal is off. Perhaps President Musharraf will try to extract some concessions during his meeting with Bush.

But the entire deal is likely to spark much more debate and change before finalisation," the weekly quoted a Pakistani official as saying.

According to the report, the F-16s were being offered without EW programme capabilities for their Radar Warning Receiver (RWR).

"This means that they will have pre-installed threat library and its RWR will only be able to identify Non-NATO aircraft," it quoted an expert as saying.

"Any NATO aircraft attacking these F-16s using Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capability could take them out easily simply because these F-16s would not know when they would be locked in sight of the attacking adversary and hence would be unable to take evasive measure," he said.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1803336,000500020000.htm

Its a 3 days old reumour and I find no stuff like that on any pakistani media .

 

[Zeeshan S.]

PAF isn't stupid and it doesn't really have to go for this. It has many other options. Like it has been stated again and again this deal is only for the "bang of buck". If Pakistan acquires these fighters it will not have to setup an infrastructure as it has already been placed, there will just need for some upgrades which will enhance the facilities.

F-16s will be really good especially for Pakistan. They will be effective, modern, and will meet the PAF requirements. If we go for J-10 instead of F-16 right now then i guess we will be needing some money! Currently we are saving money in this deal and with that money we will upgrade our facilities and air defence systems, which really need to be upgraded.

J-10C can be acquired later on, and only later on unless F-16 deal fails to meet the PAF requirements, and until then J-10C will also be ready for productions and will be done from testing.

 

[Neo]

Pakistan negotiating F-16 deal terms

ISLAMABAD (updated on: September 26, 2006, 22:07 PST): Pakistan is negotiating over strict conditions attached by the United States to a proposed multi-billion dollar deal to supply the Pakistani air force with F-16 warplanes, defence officials said on Tuesday.

The Bush administration formally notified Congress on June 28 of plans to sell Pakistan up to 36 new "Fighting Falcon" warplanes, and the formal sale agreement was expected to have been signed by end-August.

The proposed sale had included upgrades for Pakistan's fleet of 34 earlier model F-16s and a support package for up to 26 refurbished F-16s that Pakistan may eventually buy.

"Negotiations are on and once the details are sorted out, further progress will be made," Air Commodore Sarfaraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman of for the Pakistan Air Force, said.

Washington has demanded what it calls unprecedented steps to stop the technology of the advanced F-16s, their spare parts and munitions from falling into the hands of third countries -- notably China, which has close military ties to Pakistan.

John Hillen, the Assistant Secretary of State for political-military affairs, told Congress on July 20 the United States had also proposed that F-16 flights outside Pakistani air space, including for exercises with other countries, must be approved by the US government in advance.

Hillen said the transfer of technology safeguards inserted in the contract were "unprecedented".

Lockheed Martin Corp builds the F-16, but Boeing Co., Raytheon Co, Northrop-Gumman Corp and General Electric Co., are other principal contractors involved in the deal.

Hillen, in his testimony to the House of Representatives' International Relations Committee, also disclosed that the United States was withholding unspecified technologies "that would usually go with an F-16," including ones that would let it "be used in offensive ways to penetrate air space of another country that was highly defended".

Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal, Tanvir Mahmood Khan, said in an interview with The News daily last Friday: "We are quite satisfied with the current F-16 proposal."

"Notwithstanding the ongoing F-16 negotiations, every aircraft deal has preconditions. Mostly these pertain to restrictions on transfer of technology, more akin to copyright laws," he added.

Though the air force spokesperson did not specify the terms and conditions under negotiation, other officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested more talking was needed on the conditions set by Washington before Pakistan is fully satisfied.

In his testimony Hillen highlighted that Pakistan's F-16 fleet and its munitions would be segregated from aircraft supplied by other countries, so that unauthorised engineers could not get access to the US planes.

He also said US personnel would carry out inventories of the F-16s and their associated systems every six months.

Link: Pakistan negotiating F-16 deal terms

 

[MOO]

Hillen, in his testimony to the House of Representatives' International Relations Committee, also disclosed that the United States was withholding unspecified technologies "that would usually go with an F-16," including ones that would let it "be used in offensive ways to penetrate air space of another country that was highly defended".

Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal, Tanvir Mahmood Khan, said in an interview with The News daily last Friday: "We are quite satisfied with the current F-16 proposal."

Lack of modern EW equipment and ECM pods. It's like having someone offer you an F-22 Stealth fighter, but without the stealth. In this case these F16's that Pakistan will be negotiating on will be downgraded and handicap to fight a modern war. Hopefully they can reason with each othe for a better deal.

By the way let's not jump the J-10 bandwagon to soon. It still needs alot of improvement before China decides to export them. The avionics is still lacking, EW/ECM capabilities is nonexistent at the moment and an independent engine is still yet to be done. If China decided to export its J-10 to the global markets, the Russian engines will not be allowed though, it's part of the contract. Going to have to wait a little while until WS-10 engines to succeed.

 

[MOO]

Pakistan negotiating conditions attached to F-16 deal

Sep 26, 2006 — By Arshad Sharif

[Oh boy, first it was 26 New F16's to now being 26 used models to be purchase..things are getting much more worst by the day.]


ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan is negotiating over strict conditions attached by the United States to a proposed multi-billion dollar deal to supply the Pakistani air force with F-16 warplanes, defense officials said on Tuesday.

The Bush administration formally notified Congress on June 28 of plans to sell Pakistan up to 36 new "Fighting Falcon" warplanes, and the formal sale agreement was expected to have been signed by end-August.

The proposed sale had included upgrades for Pakistan's fleet of 34 earlier model F-16s and a support package for up to 26 refurbished F-16s that Pakistan may eventually buy.

"Negotiations are on and once the details are sorted out, further progress will be made," Air Commodore Sarfaraz Ahmed Khan, spokesman of for the Pakistan Air Force, said.

Washington has demanded what it calls unprecedented steps to stop the technology of the advanced F-16s, their spare parts and munitions from falling into the hands of third countries — notably China, which has close military ties to Pakistan.

John Hillen, the Assistant Secretary of State for political-military affairs, told Congress on July 20 the United States had also proposed that F-16 flights outside Pakistani air space, including for exercises with other countries, must be approved by the U.S. government in advance.

Hillen said the transfer of technology safeguards inserted in the contract were "unprecedented."

Lockheed Martin Corp builds the F-16, but Boeing Co., Raytheon Co, Northrop-Gumman Corp and General Electric Co., are other principal contractors involved in the deal.

Hillen, in his testimony to the House of Representatives' International Relations Committee, also disclosed that the United States was withholding unspecified technologies "that would usually go with an F-16," including ones that would let it "be used in offensive ways to penetrate air space of another country that was highly defended."

Pakistan's Air Chief, Air Chief Marshal, Tanvir Mahmood Khan, said in an interview with The News daily last Friday: "We are quite satisfied with the current F-16 proposal."

"Notwithstanding the ongoing F-16 negotiations, every aircraft deal has preconditions. Mostly these pertain to restrictions on transfer of technology, more akin to copyright laws," he added.

Though the air force spokesperson did not specify the terms and conditions under negotiation, other officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested more talking was needed on the conditions set by Washington before Pakistan is fully satisfied.

In his testimony Hillen highlighted that Pakistan's F-16 fleet and its munitions would be segregated from aircraft supplied by other countries, so that unauthorized engineers could not get access to the U.S. planes.

He also said U.S. personnel would carry out inventories of the F-16s and their associated systems every six months.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2493160&page=1

 

[sigatoka]

but fact remains that - the F-16s are today the PAF's best option. The models the PAF is getting are the latest available with regards to the PAF's finance range; the weapons PAF is getting for them are among the best in the world - AIM-120C5, JDAM, etc. And as of recent news - the Pakistani gov't is pushing for two new things in this F-16 deal; 1) a heavy - HEAVY discount, 2) DRFM - which will make our F-16s theoretically invinsible to enemy ECM/EW systems.

These heavily compromised planes may be PAF's best option but not necessarily Pakistan's best option. If these reports are true, it is a disgrace that all that Pak. has done is repayed in such a way. Pak. does have other options, firstly it could procure the FC-1 in greater numbers, it could procure and manufacture more surface to air missiles, it could improve the quality of ground forces and so on and so forth.

The point im driving is this, there is substitutability between F-16's and lower quality jets, between F-16's and more tanks, bet. F-16's and better and more surface 2 air missiles. It is better to not buy these compromised planes and instead use the resources for more FC-1's, more Al-Khalid tanks, more surface to air missiles.

The F-16's did not enable Israel to achieve victory in Lebanon and a compromised F-16 will be even less useful.

 

[Quwa]

Pakistan negotiating conditions attached to F-16 deal

Sep 26, 2006 — By Arshad Sharif

[Oh boy, first it was 26 New F16's to now being 26 used models to be purchase..things are getting much more worst by the day.]


ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan is negotiating over strict conditions attached by the United States to a proposed multi-billion dollar deal to supply the Pakistani air force with F-16 warplanes, defense officials said on Tuesday.

The Bush administration formally notified Congress on June 28 of plans to sell Pakistan up to 36 new "Fighting Falcon" warplanes, and the formal sale agreement was expected to have been signed by end-August.

The proposed sale had included upgrades for Pakistan's fleet of 34 earlier model F-16s and a support package for up to 26 refurbished F-16s that Pakistan may eventually buy.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2493160&page=1

I am honestly not sure whether I should attack your ignorance for not reading the DSCA articles; or to attack you for your current reading disabilities. The article you posted CLEARLY says that the deal involves 36 new built F-16s and 26 used F-16s plus upgrade modules for the PAF's current F-16s.

 

[Chukkar]

yaar blain, when this technology is available - can you hook me up with too? I need it for my car. BTW, the IAF still hasn't upgraded their MiG-29 and Mirage 2000s' ECM/EW systems; thus meaning, our F-16A/Bs are still very modern in South Asia.

You would be mistaken. Indian MiG-29s have new RWRs and access to the Elta 8222 SPJ, arguably one of the best SPJs in the business nowadays.
IAF Mirage 2000s have modern RWRs and have been seen with Remora SPJ's.

 

[Shahin-e-Iqbal]

Islamabad, Oct. 2 (PTI): Pakistan has signed an agreement with United States for purchase of 18 F-16 fighter jets as also for upgrading its existing fleet.

"The on-going negotiations regarding F-16s have culminated in the signing of letter of acceptance between the Governments of Pakistan and United States of America on 30 September, 2006 at Rawalpindi," Pakistan Air Force (PAF) said in a statement today.

"The package includes the supply of 18 new F-16s, upgraded used F-16s, upgradation of the present fleet of 32 PAF F-16s, air-to-air and air-to-ground weaponry and other support infrastructure," the statement said.

"Subsequent to the signing of letter of acceptance, the supply of aircraft and weapons to Pakistan will take place in due course of time," it said.

But it was not clear as to when the aircraft would be delivered.

Commenting on the deal, Foreign Office spokesperson, Tasnim Aslam, said "this is something that was expected."

"There was a letter of offer followed by discussion about letter of acceptance. The issues have been sorted out."

Reports said the deal is part of a USD 5 billion arms package for Pakistan which includes an assortment of air and ground weaponry besides the F-16s.

The deal came after Bush Administration received Congressional approval for the sale of 18 new F-16 jets to Pakistan.

In July, the US Defence Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress that the F-16s would come with 200 Sidewinder and 500 AIM-120C5 air-to-air missiles plus 800 general purpose 2,000 and 500-pound bombs.

 

[Shahin-e-Iqbal]

here is the linkhttp://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200610021850.htm