F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

[blain2]

Guys take a break. No more of this back and forth.

 

[prithvi]

WASHINGTON: The US Congress moved Tuesday to suspend a bid by President George W Bush's administration to shift millions of dollars in aid to Pakistan from counter-terrorism programmes to upgrading Islamabad's F-16 fighter jets.

"We have requested a hold on the administration's planned reprogramming pending additional information," said a joint statement by Democratic lawmakers Howard Berman and Nita Lowey, who head key panels in the House of Representatives.

"We are concerned that the administration's proposal to use military assistance to pay for the F-16 upgrades will divert funds from more effective counterterrorism tools like helicopters, TOW missiles, and night-vision goggles," said Berman, chairman of the House foreign affairs committee, and Lowey, chairwoman of the appropriations subcommittee on foreign programmes.

The White House said last week that it wanted to shift 230 million dollars in aid to Pakistan from counter-terrorism programmes to upgrading Pakistan's aging F-16 fighter jets.

The move, it said, was aimed at easing fiscal pressures faced by the Pakistani government stemming partly from soaring food and energy costs.

US lawmakers were reportedly angered by the move. They felt that Pakistan did not use its F-16s in support of the campaign against fighters in its remote tribal areas out of a fear that civilian casualties could fuel support for extremists.

US President George W Bush held talks with Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Monday focused on cooperation to fight Taliban and al-Qaida extremists and easing Pakistan-Afghanistan tensions.

Gilani, whose new government has been facing intense US pressure to crack down on Pakistan-based militants, told reporters after the meeting that Pakistan was committed to fighting extremists.

The package for the F-16 fighters would run about two-thirds of the 300 million dollars that Pakistan will get this year in US aid for military equipment and training, the Times said.

The 2008 fiscal year state and foreign operations bill that passed Congress last December specifically required that military aid to Pakistan be used for counter-terrorism and law enforcement activities directed against al-Qaida and the Taliban, according to lawmakers Berman and Lowey.

The hold requested by the legislature would "provide time for Congress to make a more considered judgment in consultation with the administration and the government of Pakistan," their statement said.

Requests for a hold by lawmakers are usually abided by the administration, congressional aides said.

Berman and Lowey also said that they were proposing that Congress provide 200 million dollars in economic assistance to Islamabad to relieve some of Pakistan's budgetary constraints.

"This will help Pakistan set its own spending priorities while preserving US military aid for its intended purpose -- counterterrorism activities against al-Qaida and the Taliban."

"We are committed to helping Pakistan's new democratic government address the current economic crisis, brought on by rising food and fuel prices, which has impacted its ability to fund its F-16 upgrades," the lawmakers said.

 

[Owais]

With the new transition of democracy and hope for soon as possible stability in pakistan i think the original plan for Gripen may still exist. PAF needs a quality edge over indian 126 MRCA! J-11 is not a matured platform yet but PLAAF future 2015-20 Flanker fleet is a newly upgraded fleet with su-33 and su-35 features.. J-11 could play potent role in PAF or PN naval role..

considering current pathetic performance of democracy, we are moving from bad to worse!. so I don't see PAF is going for Heavy J11 or costly Grippen in future also, PAF already reduced number of new F-16 from 36 to 18 so there will be only 78 F-16s(60MLU+18new) by 2012. only best thing they can do is to increase number of FC20 from 36 to 72.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

considering current pathetic performance of democracy, we are moving from bad to worse!. so I don't see PAF is going for Heavy J11 or costly Grippen in future also, PAF already reduced number of new F-16 from 36 to 18 so there will be only 78 F-16s(60MLU+18new) by 2012. only best thing they can do is to increase number of FC20 from 36 to 72.

yes i agree with you... democracy is the craziest thing for pakistan but the west is only interested in democracy no matter in what form. all we know for sure that PAF has done deal of JF-17 F-16s and FC-20.. we never know what come next after 2012?

 

[x_man]

this frankly is a best-case scenario. i dont see induction of any other western platform in the PAF due to political / funds issues.

Sir I concur...The way things are moving in relations with USA and improved aviation industry in China, we will ultimately become all Chinese ( except F-16s).....

IMO , we are probably over with French once existing Mirage fleet is retired, No chance for any British or any other American fighter and after many trials and flights of Grippen , probably its also out.... That leaves us with Chinese and Russians....At the moment , we can also put the Russians aside, then the only one we have left are Chinese...But the situation isn’t that gloomy either, Chinese have already and are coming up with nice array of fighters that are not only cost effective but operationally feasible too for us....

 

[muse]

Gloomy? far from it, it is, if it should come to pass, a most hopeful development.

Arms are a important component of international relations - thus far, in the name of pragmatism and expediency, Pakistani diplomacy towards the West can reasonably be considered a failure and while it is true that there are indications that the West may offer a different posture after the departure of Mr. Bush, it is also reasonable to conclude that given past behaviour this different posture will qualify as difference without distinction.

Whatever Pakistan produces or can or may produce in cooperation with China is going to become more and more cost effective for Pakistan and the quality of the product similarly improving. Why fret about English or French or Swede or U.S.?

The purpose of pakistani forces is to deter and to deny and this capablity is backed by a nuclear arsenal and increasingly complex capablity.

Let us nurture relations with those who seek the same with us. Let us begin the process of shedding ourselves of those relations in which our concerns are restricted to the role others have assigned for us in their plans.

 

[fatman17]

WASHINGTON: The US Congress moved Tuesday to suspend a bid by President George W Bush's administration to shift millions of dollars in aid to Pakistan from counter-terrorism programmes to upgrading Islamabad's F-16 fighter jets.

"We have requested a hold on the administration's planned reprogramming pending additional information," said a joint statement by Democratic lawmakers Howard Berman and Nita Lowey, who head key panels in the House of Representatives.

"We are concerned that the administration's proposal to use military assistance to pay for the F-16 upgrades will divert funds from more effective counterterrorism tools like helicopters, TOW missiles, and night-vision goggles," said Berman, chairman of the House foreign affairs committee, and Lowey, chairwoman of the appropriations subcommittee on foreign programmes.

The White House said last week that it wanted to shift 230 million dollars in aid to Pakistan from counter-terrorism programmes to upgrading Pakistan's aging F-16 fighter jets.

The move, it said, was aimed at easing fiscal pressures faced by the Pakistani government stemming partly from soaring food and energy costs.

US lawmakers were reportedly angered by the move. They felt that Pakistan did not use its F-16s in support of the campaign against fighters in its remote tribal areas out of a fear that civilian casualties could fuel support for extremists.

US President George W Bush held talks with Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani on Monday focused on cooperation to fight Taliban and al-Qaida extremists and easing Pakistan-Afghanistan tensions.

Gilani, whose new government has been facing intense US pressure to crack down on Pakistan-based militants, told reporters after the meeting that Pakistan was committed to fighting extremists.

The package for the F-16 fighters would run about two-thirds of the 300 million dollars that Pakistan will get this year in US aid for military equipment and training, the Times said.

The 2008 fiscal year state and foreign operations bill that passed Congress last December specifically required that military aid to Pakistan be used for counter-terrorism and law enforcement activities directed against al-Qaida and the Taliban, according to lawmakers Berman and Lowey.

The hold requested by the legislature would "provide time for Congress to make a more considered judgment in consultation with the administration and the government of Pakistan," their statement said.

Requests for a hold by lawmakers are usually abided by the administration, congressional aides said.

Berman and Lowey also said that they were proposing that Congress provide 200 million dollars in economic assistance to Islamabad to relieve some of Pakistan's budgetary constraints.

"This will help Pakistan set its own spending priorities while preserving US military aid for its intended purpose -- counterterrorism activities against al-Qaida and the Taliban."

"We are committed to helping Pakistan's new democratic government address the current economic crisis, brought on by rising food and fuel prices, which has impacted its ability to fund its F-16 upgrades," the lawmakers said.

i wouldnt read too much into this - either way we WIN. if this allocation is not used for F-16s, the heavens wont come down on us - we still get more Cobras, night-vision equipment and other CI stuff. US230m for counter-insurgency is a lot of money. we can get atleast another 40 upgraded Cobras.

 

[araz]

I would not worry too much. I think the congress might debate this and in the end decide ro go ahead with it. It is Pakistani request , they should comply with it.
Regards
Araz

 

[ejaz007]

Whether US provides money for economic relief, for providing more cobras and other equipment or upgrading F-16 its all welcome from Pakistan's point of view.

More cobras infact might be better as these can be used more effectively than F-16's.

 

[EagleEyes]

Dont be reading in too much of these spicy Indian news websites. The upgrading deal will go through.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Just wondering how our F-16 Ds will look like

 

[ejaz007]

US Admin will work to convince lawmakers on F-16 decision

WASHINGTON: Defending the reallocation of anti-terrorism funds to upgrade Pakistan’s F-16 aircraft, George W Bush’s administration has vowed to convince US lawmakers the move is sound.

The State Department, commenting on suggestions by some lawmakers to hold off upgrades said, “There is no need to change the decision at this point” and the administration is “moving forward with it,” State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said on Thursday.

“This was a considered decision. We think it was the right decision. This was an important priority of this incoming government that it had focused on this F-16 program, but is also committed, they say, to fighting terrorism”.

“And the argument made was that this mid-life upgrade could help them in the fight against terrorism in the Tribal Areas.”

The US has proposed reallocating about $230 million to upgrade jets purchased from the US in the 1980s. app

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[fatman17]

ASIA PACIFIC

Date Posted: 31-Jul-2008

Jane's Defence Weekly

US delivers final F-16s to Pakistan under 2005 FMS deal

Trefor Moss JDW Asia-Pacific Editor - London

The United States has completed the delivery of 14 second-hand F-16s to Pakistan under a Foreign Military Sales deal signed in 2005.

US Central Command Acting Commander Lieutenant General Martin Dempsey handed over the final four upgraded aircraft to Pakistan Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed in a ceremony on 28 July.

The 14 F-16s, which were provided free of charge except for transportation costs, were delivered in five batches beginning in December 2005.

The US embassy in Islamabad said in a statement that the aircraft were valued at USD6.4 million each.

Pakistan is also awaiting delivery of 12 new F-16C and six new F-16D aircraft from the US, while working with the US to upgrade its existing fleet of 34 F-16A/Bs.

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© 2008 Jane's Information Group

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[JK!]

Chile have recently been acquiring ex dutch air force F16s and given quite a few European nations operate the aircraft what possible country could Pakistan source F16s from?

I had read on pakistanidefence that 40 from Belgium were considered at one point.

 

[fatman17]

Chile have recently been acquiring ex dutch air force F16s and given quite a few European nations operate the aircraft what possible country could Pakistan source F16s from?

I had read on pakistanidefence that 40 from Belgium were considered at one point.[/QUOTE]

this is correct but those airframes were too old plus US was not willing to allow tranfer at that time.