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F-15 VS SU-30MKI

F-15 VS SU-30MKI


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even USA has the best fighter jets but how does it helps PAF or its querst for regonal air supremecy :azn:


sure sure why not ...... but onli problem is money as russian dont give anything for free or on soft loans first bring that money then make cloud castels ..... cheers mate :cheers:
Pakistan is selling off many things and russian are interested in buying it. Let Alone Steel Mills can bring SU-35s to PNAF.
 
Inconclusive without a scenario.

Only F-15 Silent Eagle has improved RCS values but they're not operational yet. Second best variant of F-15 (F-15E Striking Eagle) doesn't have anything cutting edge.

Both F-15E and Su-30MKI have plans for AESA radar upgradation, equivalent avionics, fbw engine system with double engine redundancy.

But, Su-30MKI has a clear upper hand in dogfights due to ability to operate at higher AoAs and load factor 'n' values because of their canards and thrust vectoring.
F-15SA:
The F-15SA will have a modern fly by wire flight control system in place of the hybrid electronic/mechanical system used by all previous F-15s. The fly-by-wire system will allow the carriage of weapons on the previously unused outer wing weapon stations.The variant includes the APG-63(v) AESA radar, digital electronic warfare systems (DEWS), infrared search and track (IRST) systems, and other advanced systems as well as a redesigned cockpit originally intended for the F-15SE.
Saudi Arabia requested 84 F-15SA (Saudi Advanced) aircraft, upgrade of its F-15S fleet to F-15SA standard, and related equipment and weapons through a FMS in October 2010. First flight of a new-build F-15SA occurred on 20 February 2013.
 
so you intend to buy su-35s from russia by selling them whats left of what they themselfs donated to you during ayub khan era :haha:
You Got it.

Pak Military is also keen. I think so in getting more used Mi-17s and Puma class helicopters from Muslim countries and upgrading them to meet the demands of PAF, PAA and Paramilitary.
 
You Got it.
zze baat.jpg


Pak Military is also keen. I think so in getting more used Mi-17s and Puma class helicopters from Muslim countries and upgrading them to meet the demands of PAF, PAA and Paramilitary.

janab all looks and feels good when you look at your dreams from a hub bul watan angle but the real problem is money i know your nation needs and want a couple of squads of both Su-35 and Mi-35s but the problem again is money and russians platforms are no dought very very leathel but since they are designed withing constrains of a very cold condition they are a pain in the arse when comes to keep them fit in a fighting condition and most of its deu to extreme heat and dsry and sandy climate of south asia in short very very expensive to mentain and we indians have learnet ity the hard way .... but good luck to you :cheers:
 
Wait n see 50-60 SU-35S coming for PN n PAF ordering another 32 new f16s
1st, i don't think pak is ready for russian hardware.
2nd, india will object in the process. and russia can't afford to loose indian deals just to sell some su-30 to pak.
and 50-60 Sukhoi can pak afford it.(please don't take it offensive way)

Pakistan is selling off many things and russian are interested in buying it. Let Alone Steel Mills can bring SU-35s to PNAF.

russia is not a buyer,
its a huge seller.why do you think russia will buy something from pak.
 
SU-35 for pak i don't think so.i heard of this news but its all myth.if PAF wants new jets they will buy from china not russia.


same thought here,its the best fighter in south asia.


i read in many articles where MKI beats f-15 and f-16 in dog fight.but don't remember which version they were.

yup you need something better.
and we need too to counter china's huge airforce.
Bro Pakistani f-16s have beaten typhoons ;)
And cope india 2006 are what you ure talking about...
And f-15s are battle proven....so called fulcrums of arabs were thrashed out of skies by f-15-16s...
And specs alone don't matter in a engagement scenarios...
F-7s took 2 mins to lock mki intruders in 2008...
So as I was saying mkis don't have any definitive edge over f-15 c...
Not to forget tails of engin failures n maintenance of your sukhois ;)

1st, i don't think pak is ready for russian hardware.
2nd, india will object in the process. and russia can't afford to loose indian deals just to sell some su-30 to pak.
and 50-60 Sukhoi can pak afford it.(please don't take it offensive way)



russia is not a buyer,
its a huge seller.why do you think russia will buy something from pak.
Pak can afford 20-40 su 35s... .if we can spend 980mils on choppers why not 2000 mils on sukhoi s

both are nearly same

which one you will select and please explain why?
Sukhois do have 200km range bvr...
That might help plus its maneuverability
 
Bro Pakistani f-16s have beaten typhoons ;)
And cope india 2006 are what you ure talking about...
And f-15s are battle proven....so called fulcrums of arabs were thrashed out of skies by f-15-16s...
And specs alone don't matter in a engagement scenarios...
F-7s took 2 mins to lock mki intruders in 2008...
So as I was saying mkis don't have any definitive edge over f-15 c...
Not to forget tails of engin failures n maintenance of your sukhois ;)
the mki too beats the typhoon..
the f-16 every time.
the migs you are talking about are those that were not combat ready and poor maintenance.
and we have upgraded migs.
dont know about f-15 but your f-16 cant beat the SU-30MKI.

Pak can afford 20-40 su 35s... .if we can spend 980mils on choppers why not 2000 mils on sukhoi s
might be. lets see what happens in future.
 
F-15SA:
The F-15SA will have a modern fly by wire flight control system in place of the hybrid electronic/mechanical system used by all previous F-15s. The fly-by-wire system will allow the carriage of weapons on the previously unused outer wing weapon stations.The variant includes the APG-63(v) AESA radar, digital electronic warfare systems (DEWS), infrared search and track (IRST) systems, and other advanced systems as well as a redesigned cockpit originally intended for the F-15SE.
Saudi Arabia requested 84 F-15SA (Saudi Advanced) aircraft, upgrade of its F-15S fleet to F-15SA standard, and related equipment and weapons through a FMS in October 2010. First flight of a new-build F-15SA occurred on 20 February 2013.

Yeah buddy that's what I'm saying. "Both F-15E and Su-30MKI have plans for AESA radar upgradation, equivalent avionics, fbw (fly-by-wire) engine system with double engine redundancy."

In fact I just assumed all F-15s had fbw systems but as you mentioned there are plans for all of them to be fitted with fbw but not yet.

Also, Even if they do the valid point remains that Su-30MKI would have an upper hand in dogfights due to their ability to operate at higher AoAs and load factor 'n' values because of their canards and 3D thrust vectoring capabilities.


Checkout the F15 SA of Saudi Arabia. It's the most advanced eagle ever made. I ll rate that thing second best after raptor. It leaves F 15 E far behind.

I know they are very competent fighters. The major difference between F-15SA and F-15E is fbw system and AESA but, Su-30MKI already has fbw system and they're planning to update them with AESA.


3 decades old f15 beats SU-30MKI easily.
Why sir? Would you please care to elaborate?
 
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that is right USA still holds the edge with cutting edge fighter tech luckilly for india none of its enemies has F-15 right now and specially in this theater and till then MKI is the most fearsome and leathel fighter in this theater.... kyon haina :azn:
yes guru ji.
 
that is right USA still holds the edge with cutting edge fighter tech luckilly for india none of its enemies has F-15 right now and specially in this theater and till then MKI is the most fearsome and leathel fighter in this theater.... kyon haina :azn:
Lol , I just wish we get few squardons of f15s and f18s. May be used ones can also give qualitative edge on other machines.
Till now, PAF is happy with F16s, while all old F16s already in Turkey for upgrade.
While f15 has own taste in the league.
Imagine if india gets F35, it will change the balance in Asia.
China , Russia can't beat it. U.S.A is already gen ahead than other countries.
f22 272+ already built
F35 dozens already built
They just retired stealth f117s in 2008 while others are still trying to make stealth fighter operational.
 
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Only the latest version has the edge over MKI... the rest are not.. it was proven and spoken by the US pilots during the training exercises

3 decades old f15 beats SU-30MKI easily.

That's not what the US pilots who faced mki say

Can the Sukhoi Su-30 have the edge over U.S. fighters in aerial combat?
Jun 18 2014 - 42 Comments
Sukhoi-Su-30-IAF.jpg

By Dario Leone
Su-30s would beat F-15s every time. But…..
We recently explained how, 10 years ago, Exercise Cope India put the Indian Air Force Su-30 against U.S. Air Force F-15C jets with results that are still open to debate: since the drills took place during F-22 budget reviews, some analysts affirm the Air Force intentionally accepted the challenging ROE (Rules Of Engagement) to gain more Raptors. Others claim this version of the story was invented to try to save face after the Indians achieved an impressive 9:1 kill ratio.

Even if we might never know the truth, it’s undeniable that, at least on paper, the Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker has been one of the best Russian combat planes.

The Su-27 belongs to the same class of the U.S. F-14 and F-15, but unlike the American fighters it can fly at an angle of attack of 30 degrees and can also perform the “Pugachev Cobra”.

In a Cobra, the plane suddenly raises the nose to the veritical position (or beyond) before dropping it back to the normal flight, maintaining more or less the same altitude through the entire maneuver.

The Su-27 and its “Cobra” have been the highlight of many air shows from the end of the 1980s to the middle of the 1990s. But, since then, the Flanker maneuverability has been furtherly enhanced.

The improved multirole Su-30MK is a Flanker variant fitted with both canard forewings and thrust-vectoring nozzles which have improved its agility.

But how can this kind of maneuvers be used in combat?

A clear idea comes from an authoritative source: Aviation Week and Space Technology magazine.

In “Su-30MK Beats F-15C ‘Every Time'” published in 2002 on AW&ST, David A. Fulghum and Douglas Barrie reported that the Su-30 used its maneuverability to beat the F-15 in several engagements conducted in a complex of 360-deg. simulation domes at Boeing’s St. Louis facilities.

According to the article (that is often referenced by Indian media outlets to highlight the presumed Su-30 superiority on the American fighter jets) an anonymous USAF officer explained that in the case of a missed BVR missile (like the AA-12 Adder) shot by the Flanker, the Su-30 could turn into the clutter notch of the F-15’s radar, where the Eagle’s Doppler was ineffective.

As the AW&ST story explained in detail, this maneuver could be accomplished making a descending, right-angle turn to drop below the approaching F-15 while reducing the Su-30’s relative forward speed close to zero: even if this is a very old air combat tactic, the USAF officer said that the Sukhoi could perform effectively this maneuver thanks to its ability to reduce rapidly its speed and then quickly regain it.

If the Flanker driver performed correctly the maneuver, the Su-30 was invisible to the F-15’s radar until the Eagle was inside the AA-11 Archer IR missile range, since the F-15’s Doppler radar relied on movements of its targets.

As pointed out by the USAF officer, this tactic “works in the simulator every time,” however, only few countries have pilots with the required skills to fly those scenarios.


This happened about 10 years ago.

In the meanwhile, American pilots have received their F-22 Raptor stealth planes (facing also some serious problems).

But some unique features, such as the power of its engines and its superb aerodynamics, make the Flanker, in the right hands and in the proper scenario, a great dogfighter and a very tough enemy for every western jet WVR (Within Visual Range).

Moreover the Su-30 could carry the short range IR missile AA-11 Archer which in the ‘90s was the best short-range AAM in the world since it could be linked to the pilot’s helmet fire control system and was capable to be fired at targets until 45 degrees off the axis of the aircraft: both these capabilities were not possessed by the AIM-9M, the main western short range missile at the time (later replaced by the AIM-9X Sidewinder).
 
Only the latest version has the edge over MKI... the rest are not.. it was proven and spoken by the US pilots during the training exercises



That's not what the US pilots who faced mki say

Can the Sukhoi Su-30 have the edge over U.S. fighters in aerial combat?
Jun 18 2014 - 42 Comments
Sukhoi-Su-30-IAF.jpg

By Dario Leone
Su-30s would beat F-15s every time. But…..
We recently explained how, 10 years ago, Exercise Cope India put the Indian Air Force Su-30 against U.S. Air Force F-15C jets with results that are still open to debate: since the drills took place during F-22 budget reviews, some analysts affirm the Air Force intentionally accepted the challenging ROE (Rules Of Engagement) to gain more Raptors. Others claim this version of the story was invented to try to save face after the Indians achieved an impressive 9:1 kill ratio.

Even if we might never know the truth, it’s undeniable that, at least on paper, the Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker has been one of the best Russian combat planes.

The Su-27 belongs to the same class of the U.S. F-14 and F-15, but unlike the American fighters it can fly at an angle of attack of 30 degrees and can also perform the “Pugachev Cobra”.

In a Cobra, the plane suddenly raises the nose to the veritical position (or beyond) before dropping it back to the normal flight, maintaining more or less the same altitude through the entire maneuver.

The Su-27 and its “Cobra” have been the highlight of many air shows from the end of the 1980s to the middle of the 1990s. But, since then, the Flanker maneuverability has been furtherly enhanced.

The improved multirole Su-30MK is a Flanker variant fitted with both canard forewings and thrust-vectoring nozzles which have improved its agility.

But how can this kind of maneuvers be used in combat?

A clear idea comes from an authoritative source: Aviation Week and Space Technology magazine.

In “Su-30MK Beats F-15C ‘Every Time'” published in 2002 on AW&ST, David A. Fulghum and Douglas Barrie reported that the Su-30 used its maneuverability to beat the F-15 in several engagements conducted in a complex of 360-deg. simulation domes at Boeing’s St. Louis facilities.

According to the article (that is often referenced by Indian media outlets to highlight the presumed Su-30 superiority on the American fighter jets) an anonymous USAF officer explained that in the case of a missed BVR missile (like the AA-12 Adder) shot by the Flanker, the Su-30 could turn into the clutter notch of the F-15’s radar, where the Eagle’s Doppler was ineffective.

As the AW&ST story explained in detail, this maneuver could be accomplished making a descending, right-angle turn to drop below the approaching F-15 while reducing the Su-30’s relative forward speed close to zero: even if this is a very old air combat tactic, the USAF officer said that the Sukhoi could perform effectively this maneuver thanks to its ability to reduce rapidly its speed and then quickly regain it.

If the Flanker driver performed correctly the maneuver, the Su-30 was invisible to the F-15’s radar until the Eagle was inside the AA-11 Archer IR missile range, since the F-15’s Doppler radar relied on movements of its targets.

As pointed out by the USAF officer, this tactic “works in the simulator every time,” however, only few countries have pilots with the required skills to fly those scenarios.


This happened about 10 years ago.

In the meanwhile, American pilots have received their F-22 Raptor stealth planes (facing also some serious problems).

But some unique features, such as the power of its engines and its superb aerodynamics, make the Flanker, in the right hands and in the proper scenario, a great dogfighter and a very tough enemy for every western jet WVR (Within Visual Range).

Moreover the Su-30 could carry the short range IR missile AA-11 Archer which in the ‘90s was the best short-range AAM in the world since it could be linked to the pilot’s helmet fire control system and was capable to be fired at targets until 45 degrees off the axis of the aircraft: both these capabilities were not possessed by the AIM-9M, the main western short range missile at the time (later replaced by the AIM-9X Sidewinder).
Ok. U.S.A always want to keep its profile low & minimum level. But this is reality U.S.A is gen ahead in this program I already explained in Previous post.
 

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