Exremist attacks in khi @ valentine and basnat celibrations

[qsaark]

In all honesty, qsaark and SurvivoR, would you claim that you have never listened to music or done anything that is "against" Islam.
I listen to music everyday, it helps me throughout the day, whenever I go to work or to school or where ever, it gives me a calm effect.
I also get the same calm feeling when praying for Allah (swt) and sit on the carpet, the same feeling, actually even better and I feel connected or heard in one way or another to my one and only God.

If you are following my posts, I have admitted that I do not say my prayers regularly, I also skip my fasts and I also listen to the music (though I never danced). BUT I know all these things are not liked by Allah and his Rasool (PBUH). I know I am committing a sin and I try not to do it to the best of my ability. And I do not attempt to twist the laws of Allah to qualify my wrong doings.

The problem is when I do things that are not allowed in Islam and try to justify them by twisting the Islamic laws. That is the worst kind of a thing one does. I am objecting on this behaviour of justifying a haram thing and being favored over the farz namaz. No law is supreme than the law of Allah and his Rasool (PBUH) and is not debatable. I dont care how cruel it looks to the liberal fascists.

However, nothing, and simply nothing will justify the use of violence in this case. You cannot claim that these men, women and children were deliberately trying to ruin the prayers for these people. It was most likely a misunderstanding and bad timing, so what? Who cares, work it out together, talk to the people, resort to different manners. What's the use by waiting outside with stones or sticks or whatever and try and intimidate these people who most likely are muslims too. Them celebrating valentine's day, or perhaps not even valentine's day but they use the special occasion to celebrate their own "day" if you get my point, so it doesn't even have to be valentine's day, does that make them bad Muslims or lower or lesse Muslims? Are we mortals the one to judge or decide what they are?

You are trying to reapeat the same thing over and over. If these people were muslims (at least they were born to muslim parents), they should have known exactly what they were doing and whether it was correct. These people proved that not only they have no respect for their religion, they also proved that had no manners. Celebration at the cost of other's worship or peace of mind is not acceptable, religiously as well as socially.


Do you honestly think Allah (swt) will punish these people because they celebrated this day even if alot of them pray everyday and are good and pure muslims at heart? Do you honestly think Allah (swt) will also not look at the people who resorted to violence or intimidation to justify their case? Do you think they are innocent by any chance?

I dont know if these people say their prayers every day or not. If they did, they would have known how it feels when someone disturbs you during saying your prayers. Good and pure muslim as Prophets (PBUH) has described:

Narrated Abu Shuraih: The Prophet said, "By Allah, he does not believe! By Allah, he does not believe! By Allah, he does not believe!" It was said, "Who is that, O Allah's Apostle?" He said, "That person whose neighbor does not feel safe from his evil." - Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Number 45

It's simply way too EASY to cause civil unrest or to intimidate one another in Pakistan, and this is a big problem in my eyes, people have to feel safe, and if there are issues, then talk with eachother, communicate but don't hate, it doesn't make sense, peoples mentality have to be changed, and discipline must be taught. If you'd do something similar like this in China, you bet your a$$ the policeforce or special taskforce would take care of any unrest within a matter of minutes, it's all discipline to keep the society together and also to win respect for eachother.


I have mentioned this in my earlier posts. Had these lovebirds had not started disturbing the namazis, the whole incident would have not taken place in the first place. Hence the responsibility of all the civil unrest or whatever goes to the people who were responsible for starting or provoking it all in the first place. Not to the ones who protested. I live in a civilised country and know all too well what the police will do to the people who attempt (delibrately or not) to disturb other people.

 

[Jihad]

Yes, while I agree with some of your points qsaark and SurvivoR, ask yourselves, did these people do this on purpose? Did they play music and celebrated their party deliberately so that the people in the mosque could not say their prayers?
Also, like I said, I think it was an unlucky chain of events that led to this.
Bad timing simply, no Muslim would do this deliberately, so trying to make these people in the park look bad or blaming them for this whole incident is not really justified.
I still stand by my point, like Survivor said, "Now you can guess in our country such advice do fell on deaf ear and it leads to scuffle from both sides. "
It's this "scuffle" or this deaf ear that I am worried about.
I'm talking about understanding eachother, if the Namazis simply went to the park and asked if they could lower it down or shut the music for a little while because Isha prayer was going on, then I assume there wasn't much trouble, there would be understanding from both sides and the party would continue as soon as the prayers were done.
Also, I must say, it wasn't that smart to organise such an event especially with loud music on and so close to a mosque, but still there shouldn't be any justification for violence.
I have the strong feeling that the people conducting their prayers, or some of them got agressive for no reason at all, and were actually waiting outside the park to teach certain people "a lesson or two" if you get my point.

My conclusion, simply talk it over, but don't ruin the prayers nor the celebration of an event on a beautiful day.
Because lately, there aren't many nice days where people actually enjoy or smile, especially when you hear the latest news regarding Pakistan and the taliban insurgency, news like men/women/children celebrating a special occasion in a park should put a smile on a persons face.
Now when you read headlines like the one similar to this thread's name, it doesn't quite give you a good feeling.
I'm not justifying the usage of loud music when Isha prayers or any other prayers are ongoing, but i'm also not justifying the agressiveness or the will to resort to violence so easily to put one's will on another.

 

[qsaark]

Yes, while I agree with some of your points qsaark and SurvivoR, ask yourselves, did these people do this on purpose?

Dont know if they did it on purpose or not (I am not a telepathist). All I know is, my parents would turn off the TV or lowered the volume when the Azan was being said. I know the importance of these religious rituals. And I always thought that other muslim Pakistanis were also taught by their parents and teachers to respect the religious rituals UNTILL NOW.

Islam is a complete religion, and has instruction for every single thing. We are told what is permitted and what is not. One is allowed to do whatever he/she pleases until his/her time comes. Just remember one thing, all of us are answerable to Allah for every single deed.

You my friend, are most welcome to keep arguing for the sake of arguing. Maybe in the process you will also earn few thanks from certain members. I would however, rather retire from this discussion which is no more productive.

"Lakum deenukum waliya deen". Sūrah Al-Kāfirūn

To you be your Way, and to me mine.

 

[Jihad]

Dont know if they did it on purpose or not (I am not a telepathist). All I know is, my parents would turn off the TV or lowered the volume when the Azan was being said. I know the importance of these religious rituals. And I always thought that other muslim Pakistanis were also taught by their parents and teachers to respect the religious rituals UNTILL NOW.

Islam is a complete religion, and has instruction for every single thing. We are told what is permitted and what is not. One is allowed to do whatever he/she pleases until his/her time comes. Just remember one thing, all of us are answerable to Allah for every single deed.

You my friend, are most welcome to keep arguing for the sake of arguing. Maybe in the process you will also earn few thanks from certain members. I would however, rather retire from this discussion which is no more productive.

"Lakum deenukum waliya deen". Sūrah Al-Kāfirūn

To you be your Way, and to me mine.

I agree, it is best to put our discussion to rest.
I am not here to earn "thanks" or whatever, I couldn't care less to be honest with you.
My parents too would turn off the TV during prayers, we constantly do our best not to dishonor ourselves and our faith, sometimes we do the opposite, but we're only humans and we will learn from our mistakes I guess.
My point was the violence part which I did not like, I can however understand the frustration among the Namazis at that time, but people need to take it easy sometimes and leave the last ordeal up to Allah (swt).

Let it also be your way, and to me mine.