Eurofighter can step in if talks with Rafale fails: UK

[SpArK]

Any indication as of even thinking on other options gives us a bargaining chip.

I wish Americans too join this circus with pitching of F-18s.

Hi,

Could ISI be behind the rumors----

Nope ISIS...

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Why don't we order new batch of EF ? Like two squadrons . We can afford 40 extra EF for air superiority role . Yes we have su 30 mki and super on the way but Chinese too will have equaling knowledge of Russian fighter jets as they will take possession of su 35 . So I prefer with addional 40+ EF + 183 Rafael in its fleet IAF can execute against any missions . AS our fleet will lag behind 200 fighters by 2030 and above .

Yes we can have many new deals for fighter jets as our economy grows ahead . But I think we must be on the safe side . Bite the bullet and buy both Rafael and EF + su 35 40 each . Cost effective and provide us a much needed time to built our LCA and AMCA .

 

[Yeti]

Why don't we order new batch of EF ? Like two squadrons . We can afford 40 extra EF for air superiority role . Yes we have su 30 mki and super on the way but Chinese too will have equaling knowledge of Russian fighter jets as they will take possession of su 35 . So I prefer with addional 40+ EF + 183 Rafael in its fleet IAF can execute against any missions . AS our fleet will lag behind 200 fighters by 2030 and above .

Yes we can have many new deals for fighter jets as our economy grows ahead . But I think we must be on the safe side . Bite the bullet and buy both Rafael and EF + su 35 40 each . Cost effective and provide us a much needed time to built our LCA and AMCA .

My friend please stop and think logically! operating fighters from multiple countries is not cost effective as it will mean setting up new infrastructure etc and the good thing is we have already invested quite a bit of paisa in the Mirage upgrade which will help with the Rafale.

We do not need the SU35 we already have the SU30 MKI which will be upgraded in batches for the future!

 

[The Headache]

@kahonapyarhai you are going berserk with threads everyday. Well, do you really know how many threads you are putting daily on pdf on an avg.?

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

I mean what are u talking about . Su 30 mki is not su35 even after super su standards. We can afford to buy 70+ su 35 as stop gab . We must extend the orders to full capacity of 184 Rafael , And fastrack production of a MK2 even if it is finished by 2020 we order in huge numbers and later upgrade . It doesn't mean that we are in full strength because we will sign mmrca. .. NO . We need at least 80^90 new jets . We can prefer Su35 . We can deal with it as if we were born with it . As we have lots of experience with 30s for very long time nearly 14 years

 

[fsayed]

cancel rafale deal buy more super sukhoi and tejas mk1 and order more tejas mk 2 and pump money in indigenous research and development



super sukhoi

tejas mk1

tejas mk2

@SpArK

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

cancel rafale deal buy more super and tejas mk1 and order more tejas mk 2 and pump money in indigenous research and development



super sukhoi

tejas mk1

tejas mk2

@SpArK

No need to cancel . Why you need to cancel rafale deal ? This mmrca will boost our technology in many folds tham never before . If we want to have own fighter jets in the future then we need rafale deal to be done. We need su 35 to fill in the gabs... along china . Its obvious that china will be keep bullying india in a slow ands soft manner but it will be escalated by silly human error.we can have another advanced sukoi variaint To like su 35. infra structure will be shared by the seller iresourcesrn of offset which is 30 /50 % .with hard bargain we can get lots in turn for new orders . So wats the big deal . After all armed forces are the insurance policy of the nation to safe gaurd 2 billion dollar economy , 1.25 billion human , abandant resources . I dont think maintaining ll be a problem for India

What we need to do is to work out the away to sign mmrca deal , focus on LCA AMCA and buy at least 5 sq of Su 35 or EF or both 3 sq each. Rafale with EF and sukoi will be a deadly combo . We can make it happen . If we want . Hope right action will be sooner or later on this regards ... Number games is still worth placing ur bets on . AND WITH QUALITY IT WILL BE THE BEST

 

[Abingdonboy]

Hi,

Could ISI be behind the rumors----

There is precedent for them undertaking such propaganda campaigns to hurt Indian interests but I don't think they are involved in the current disinformation campaign at work- that is being funded and supported by the losing bidders (Russians, EFT consortium and SAAB).

 

[OrionHunter]

@Abingdonboy I have a question about it in my mind for couple of days. May I shoot?

Shoot! But don't shoot yourself in the foot!!

 

[Parul]

@Sidak, firstly there is no such thing as "100% ToFT" and secondly, more importantly, no such deal was made and if someone reported it had been they can't know this and are speculating/trying to disrupt the Rafale negotiations.

The fact of that matter is EFT made their bid, lost and were eliminated. There is no way back in for them now.

The report which I read was made by some Ambassador. I try, find and share it.

I have nelson knowledge on this. The only thing I know is Rafael Price/Cost has been Increased and deal is on back bumper (as you said speculation), Eurofighter was runner up in deal and is bending over backwards to get this deal. Hence, I had this question in my mind.

Shoot! But don't shoot yourself in the foot!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

It has been admitted hands down that EFT is te bettter fighter compared to the Rafael. Remember? We chose Rafael based on other reason which dont seem to hold much water now.

Who admitted this? On what basis is the EFT better? Serviceability? Nope. A2G? Nope. EW suite? Nope. Operational history? Nope. Future roadmap? Nope.

The Rafale is by far the better machine and fighter, in fact every nation now flying the EFT has reported issues with the type but the Rafale is flying with little problems in large numbers in the French Airforce and Navy.


I honestly don't know where you form your ideas but you can't put out health truths, sensationalism and nonsense and proclaim it as fact.

The report which I read was made by some Ambassador. I try, find and share it.
I have nelson knowledge on this. The only thing I know is Rafael Price/Cost has been Increased and deal is on back bumper (as you said speculation), Eurofighter was runner up in deal and is bending over backwards to get this deal. Hence, I had this question in my mind.

Sure, please try to locate that report.

With respect to the cost escalation, yes this is true but it is not specifically Dassault's fault, it is not like they are trying to fleece the Indian nation for more but one has to understand the original bids were made back in 2008, in all those years since you have to factor in inflation and Dassualt has had to revise their submitted cost over the years- not to mention the Rupee has depreciated significantly against the USD in the past few years but the Euro-Rupee exchange rate has been pretty static (something too many overlook considering this deal is likely to be paid in Euros). Anyway the figure is nowhere near $20 BN (in actuality it is around $15-16BN). And as most of these factors are external to Dassualt the same cost escalation would have been seen with any winning manufacturer if they had been selected as the L1 bidder.


I understand your perspective @Sidak and I have no problem talking through all these issues with you

 

[OrionHunter]

Who admitted this? On what basis is the EFT better? Serviceability? Nope. A2G? Nope. EW suite? Nope. Operational history? Nope. Future roadmap? Nope.

The Rafale is by far the better machine and fighter, in fact every nation now flying the EFT has reported issues with the type but the Rafale is flying with little problems in large numbers in the French Airforce and Navy.


I honestly don't know where you form your ideas but you can't put out health truths, sensationalism and nonsense and proclaim it as fact.

How about the life cycle costs? The EFT is unaffordable if this is taken into account!

And Rafale's avionics are out-of-this world. My friend an ex HAL test pilot has put both these aircraft through their paces. The Rafale had the edge. If you add everything together, the Rafale is far more cost effective!

In other word's the Rafale is the clear winner! Period!

 

[Abingdonboy]

How about the life cycle costs? The EFT is unaffordable if this is taken into account!

And Rafale's avionics are out-of-this world. My friend an ex HAL test pilot has put both these aircraft through their paces. The Rafale had the edge. If you add everything together, the Rafale is far more cost effective!

Well the life cycle costs go without saying-this is how the Rafale was selected as the L1 bidder in the first place against the EFT.

Each passing week seems to bring news that is increasingly painting the picture that the EFT is a Hangar Queen- cracks found in the tails of the EFT fleet, Germany grounds its fleet, Germany only has 5 or so EFTs operational at any one time, the Spanish AF only have 5% of their EFT fleet operational right now etc etc

 

[Hareeshu IA MBT]

Who admitted this? On what basis is the EFT better? Serviceability? Nope. A2G? Nope. EW suite? Nope. Operational history? Nope. Future roadmap? Nope.

The Rafale is by far the better machine and fighter, in fact every nation now flying the EFT has reported issues with the type but the Rafale is flying with little problems in large numbers in the French Airforce and Navy.


I honestly don't know where you form your ideas but you can't put out health truths, sensationalism and nonsense and proclaim it as fact.

EF has better RCS and lowest of all 4+ gen jets . And all u mentioned about A2G etc will.be done before we get the delivery of etf . If signed . Any way we will sign rafale deal which must needed requirement of the nation . So it will be signed what so ever . Even if it is 30 billion over all cost . 50% will be invested inside india which I guess production line of parts built under tot and repair/maintenance nest . It was will give us the knowledge to produce a pure 4 + fighter get with high end technology . But it doesn't mean we should not buy any other fighter jet lots other than mmrca and Su 30 . Knowingly or unknown we create a mess in our total fleet strength of IAF . So we need stop gap fighters to get some time to developing our own fighters . I HAVE ONE QUESTION . IF INDIAN CAN BUY NOR FIGHTER JETS OTHER THAN MMRCA . WON'T YOU LIKE YO HAVE EF ?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

There is nothing called a free lunch. ANy competitor (read UK) ready to come back with 'cheaper' deal will screw us later. They aren't doing a favor- this is business.

India is their darling, they would screw Pakistan but not India IMHO and yes I am jealous to say that.

any reason you think they will screw up? they can still do business by being fair.. no?