Rafale deal in Limbo, Eurofighter, Saab hopeful.

[halupridol]

No I recently saw a Gripen Commercial recently where it shoots down Su-35

just search "rafael India advertisement" on youtube...

 

[Star Wars]

Don't be so happy Saab and Euro if youare selected it will take another 10 years

 

[Bang Galore]

The truth we Have no time for this are force is Depleting I hope MOD will Not take this into consideration or rather it will Delay MMRCA Few more Years So Rafales is the only choice we have left With as it is in Last Stage of Negotiations.

You are right about the delay but some of it has been cause by the French behaving funnily. It isn't all the MOD's fault. However I mentioned SAAB's offer to work on the LCA as being of interest.

 

[arp2041]

I wonder how much does shukla makes from promoters?

for sure he made huge by his famous slogan "Scrap MMRCA, go for F-35"

 

[maxpayne]

IMO best choice is to invite gripen to co-develop tejas. India will have complete control on supplies/maintenenace/upgrades. Best for India even this must be an option for our JF17s.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Can the Gripen D perform the same roles as the Rafale? Simple answer - No.

You can't compare a Maruti 800 with a BMW can you?

To be correct, it is the Gripen E that involves the changes needed for Tejas Mk II.
And the comparision is more like an Audi vs BMW.

 

[axisofevil]

I would jump on Saab.....if India is serious about self reliance then that's a deal breaker. No other company offered that level of cooperation. F-king idiots..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Rafale contract elusive, Eurofighter and Saab remain hopeful
Saab believes co-developing Tejas Mark II would end need for Rafale


Ajai Shukla | New Delhi
June 17, 2014 Last Updated at 00:15 IST

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More than two years after India's ministry of defence (MoD) chose to buy 126 Dassault Rafale fighters for the Indian Air Force (IAF), the world's biggest fighter contract swings in the wind. With no deal in sight after 28 months of haggling with Dassault, two of the losing vendors -Eurofighter and Saab - believe they could yet come out tops.

Eurofighter GmbH, whose Typhoon fighter narrowly lost out to the Rafale, still retains a senior executive in New Delhi. This is to allow Eurofighter - the official runner-up - to quickly step in should negotiations with Dassault collapse.

Swedish company, Saab, whose Gripen-D light fighter was evaluated but not selected, similarly believes the contract remains open. Saab places hope in a proposal that it formulated with the Defence Research and Developments Organisation (DRDO) to co-develop and co-manufacture the improved Tejas Mark II Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). This affordable, indigenous, single-engine fighter could be built in numbers, providing the IAF a more economical and effective option than limited numbers of enormously expensive, twin-engine Rafales.

Saab believes that a successful Tejas Mark II would erode the need for the Rafale. The Swedish company has offered co-development and co-manufacture of the Tejas Mark II, even whilst fielding the cheapest and most economical fighter of the six in the fray.

As IAF officers confirm, India had intended to buy a cheap, light fighter to replace the IAF's MiG-21s as they were phased out of service. In late 2004, IAF sent out a "request for information", to four manufacturers of small, cheap fighters - the Russian MiG-29; the American F-16; the French Mirage-2000-5, and the Saab Gripen.

Only in August 2007, when IAF issued a formal tender - termed "request for proposal", or RfP - were expensive, twin-engine fighters like the Eurofighter, Rafale and F/A-18 regarded as options. Today, with the economy stuttering, the daunting prospect of paying Rs 1,00,000 crore for 126 fighters could mean that low cost becomes decisive.

Saab sees further advantage in backing the indigenous horse, the Tejas Mark II. The Swedish company claims it is best suited for upgrading the Tejas Mark I, since it is currently upgrading the Gripen-D by fitting a new engine, the General Electric F-414 power pack. Upgrading the Tejas Mark I to Mark II specifications involves exactly the same upgrade.

Last DRDO chief, Dr V K Saraswat, was convinced that Saab's assistance would be ideal for the Tejas programme. In 2012, DRDO sent Saab a "Request for Information" asking a rough estimate of costs, which Saab duly submitted.

In Jan 2013, DRDO followed up with a RfP, asking for technical and financial bids for Saab to jointly audit the Tejas design with DRDO. Saab had proposed an eight-10 month long audit, after which a fresh design would be finalised and a manufacturing line established.

MoD sources tell Business Standard that Saab proposed in 2011 to co-develop the Tejas Mark II and roll it out from a new manufacturing line within five years. Saab wanted at least 51 per cent ownership of the joint venture company that built the new Tejas, to be free of government controls and procedures.

By May 2013, a joint design contract seemed imminent, says Saab. But on June 1, a new DRDO chief, Dr Avinash Chander, took charge and Saab was unofficially told that DRDO could not co-develop the Tejas with a foreign company without an international tender to select the partner.

Contacted for comments, a DRDO spokesperson told Business Standard that design work on the Tejas Mark II is proceeding satisfactorily without a foreign partner.

In fact, MoD sources admit the Tejas Mark II programme faces significant design challenges beyond merely fitting a new engine. The Tejas Mark I was not designed with operational availability in mind, with important systems placed in inaccessible places that take time for technicians to reach. The Gripen-D, in contrast, requires just five man-hours of maintenance for an hour of flying. (The figure for the Tejas is not available, but the Rafale is estimated to require 15 man-hours).

Furthermore, the new F-414 engine would require the Tejas' length to be increased by half a metre. In addition, experts say the air intakes will have to be redesigned, since they do not allow in sufficient air for even the F-404 engine, far less the more powerful F-414 that will be fitted.

Aerospace analysts acknowledge Saab's expertise in building economical and effective fighters. The Gripen-D costs half as much as a Rafale. International expert, Jane's, puts the operating cost of a Gripen at $4,700 per flight hour, while flying a Rafale for an hour costs $15,000.

Rafale contract elusive, Eurofighter and Saab remain hopeful | Business Standard

These are actual lies.

Has Ajay Shukla not been reading any of the news coming out in the last few weeks?


Dassault hopes to sign Rafale India deal this year| Reuters


MMRCA deal: Rafale negotiations expected to be wrapped up in 3 months - The Times of India


MMRCA deal: Rafale negotiations expected to be wrapped up in 3 months - The Times of India


Rafales exercise in India as optimism on MMRCA deal grows - IHS Jane's 360


India to seal deal for Rafale jets within 3 months-paper


New Indian Regime Will Sign Long-Delayed Deals | Aviation International News



MMRCA Deal: Rafale Negotiations Expected to Be Wrapped Up In 3 Months | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk



Narendra Modi First Deal : Deal for 126 combat aircraft floats as Rafale fighter - India(Hindi) News 2014-06-08 - Video - APLatestNews.com



India to seal deal for Rafale jets within three months: paper | Usum


India Could Seal $20bn Deal for Dassault Rafale Jets in Three Months | Business 4 Internet


France foreign minister likely to ask for early inking of MMRCA project during India visit - The Times of India



I really feel like Mr Skukla is on someone's payroll, throughout the MMRCA process he has been pushing for the F-35, now this is clearly not an option with the IAF and MoD ruling this out, he is pushing for the EFT and Gripen?

 

[Indus Falcon]

I really feel like Mr Skukla is on someone's payroll, throughout the MMRCA process he has been pushing for the F-35, now this is clearly not an option with the IAF and MoD ruling this out, he is pushing for the EFT and Gripen?

He is clearly on someone's payroll. Someone should look into it!

 

[Abingdonboy]

He is clearly on someone's payroll. Someone should look into it!

Freedom of speech is protected in India and he is not an Indian govt employ so as a private citizen he is free to be employed by whomever. What is needed is a more regulated media in India where these sort of blatant lies are called out and rubbished.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Freedom of speech is protected in India and he is not an Indian govt employ so as a private citizen he is free to be employed by whomever. What is needed is a more regulated media in India where these sort of blatant lies are called out and rubbished.

Despite freedom of speech, if he is on someones payroll, there is no harm in exposing where he is getting his $'s from?

IT is a matter of national security after all.

 

[sancho]

Ajai Shukla is merely pointing out what Eurofighter & Saab are thinking, SAAB's position is actually quite interesting if you think about it.

He isn't! He stated that the EF consortium keeps some officials in India, for the case if Indian governments needs informations on the EF or their offer, but not what the EF consortium might think about the current situation with the new government. That would had been interesting, especially if he had made an official interview with that official and not only give unnamed sources as the base of his theories.
The Saab position he "creates" is even weirder, since it basically rules out that they see the chance for Gripen in India, which according to their official statements still remains an option. It also would rule out any chance for the Sea Gripen that Saab is offering for IN, since if the MK2 is developed, N-LCA will fill the gap of the Sea Gripen too.
And for what? The prospect of CO - produce and develop a fighter that they neither want (since it actually would be a direct competitor to Gripen E on the export market), nor that would give them any technical improvements, since the MK2 won't have anything that Saab wouldn't get through the Gripen E anyway. There is simply no benefit for Saab with such a proposal, so why would they want to make such an offer?

A co-development would had been great, but in the early years, when the Gripen and LCA were developed, because both countries could had benefitted a lot from each other. But for the upgrade of LCA today, it doesn't make any sense, especially when Saab is importing most of the new capabilities of the Gripen E themself. All they can then offer is design support, which basically is a consultancy service as EADS / Airbus does it at N-LCA, or like Dassault did it in the past for the base design of LCA. Which once again shows the stupid way we followed with this so important project. First dreaming about doing everything alone and later asking everybody for help to fix the problems, while a co-development from the start could have solved all the shortfalls that we have.

 

[jha]

Another one by Shukla jee... MRCA can not be scrapped ( even though I would like to). Rafale is coming to India.

Although he is correct in pointing out the change in DRDO's stance when Avinash Chander stepped in. Tejas MK-II's design should have been optimized with SAAB's help imo. But such smart decision under UPA was impossible. I hope new government has a pragmatic approach and does not hesitate to take outside help in developing sub-systems. Depending on DPSUs to develop cutting edge tech. will only lead to further delays.

I would jump on Saab.....if India is serious about self reliance then that's a deal breaker. No other company offered that level of cooperation. F-king idiots..

Exactly... SAAB's offer for LCA is really good. Capping Rafale at 6 Squads and co-developing Tejas MK-II is the best way to go.

 

[volatile]

 

[Basel]

I would jump on Saab.....if India is serious about self reliance then that's a deal breaker. No other company offered that level of cooperation. F-king idiots..

From SAAB India can benefit more as they are also looking for partner in single engine stealth fighter jet, it will be win win situation and India will be able to get both western & eastern stealth tech too.