Erdogan about secularism

[xenon54 out]

I honestly believe that the problem is not with achieving the balance but trying something new. The problem with Islamism is that it's usual governance system gives way too much room for corruption and abuse of power. A ruling elite of the "religious" is bound to fail because let's be honest for every 1,000 Imams only one of them is legitimately religious and sane and for every 100,000 Islamists usually only one of them is legitimately religious and sane.

I think you need to reform Islamism before trying to reach a balance.

I'm pretty sure that is why Ataturk wanted a secular system because a religious one will only get abused.

 

[Timur]

lf that's the case, why are you living in Germany?

You despise it yet you live in a European country.

You know that's exactly the reason why Germans hate Turks, l lived there for 5 years and saw how ignorant and backward those Turks were...They still think they live in their villages from 1960's.


First, Muslims destroy their own country then they run to a European country and demand *Sharia for Europe*.

Erdoğan and his party may have done some good things in the past overall but they also made too many mistakes.

whats wrong with you? WTF is that the answer I get for my pork comperisation? things I didn't say? I can be harsh too..

what does that have to do with living in germany? where is the difference in turkey and germany than? you think turkey is a muslim country? where do you live? on mars? maybe I had no choice and I am born there? in my youth we could not even do dikhr in turkey we had to do it in secret because of police and state! what are you talking about? so here in germany it was easier for me to live my religion than in turkey where more opression from state occured.. any superiority complex of our guys are coming out of thin air

you said you lived there for 5 years, 5 years? what was the reason to go to germany and leave your country I have a very bad opinion about ppl leaving turkey..

once again, despising it... where is your problem?

backward living in the 1960? where do you have been? many turks may have not lost their traditions.. some may now be not backward and eat pork .. maybe they are still using köllnisch wasser so they are backward..
but what do I think about you guys in turkey in return? or what do I recommend germans traveling to turkey, what kind of backwardness and evil would I say about the ppl there, if I would start about complaining about ppl in turkey.. the list is even as long as the list about ppl here in germany.. also I see no diffrence in their core both have that disgusting core I do not want to explain further.. yeah we can also find good things in them but we are talking about the bad side so guys dont get all offended..

you may have a poblem with islam itself.. where do I wrote sharia for EU? where did I wrote something about erdogan, where did I wrote I went to europe? where does that come from : I give you the answer your problem lies with islam itself..


so we muslims destroyed turkey? and than we muslims flee to europe to live a life in luxury?

and last I know excatly why the germans dont like the turks in general .. you dont know it or have their same brain.. but let me tell others they like this: to play tennis with you and your sister and then and when they are finished they will go with the girl to a bath while her brother is having a bath too (with them) than they will like you but as long as this backward turks in germany do not want to give their sisters to germans they will not like you.. you just lived there and enjoyed the money and luxury for 5 years you did not play with them in your childhood, you didnt see the school system, you didnt debate didnt went to their homes your whole life.. what do you know..5 years does not make you a psychiatrist.. 5 years and than you come and put words in my moth..

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

The Turks are destroying their own country by repeatedly voting for Islamist clowns like Erdogan and by indirectly helping the AKP reverse everything that Ataturk achieved for the Turkish nation.

The truth is, the majority of Turks never deserved someone like Ataturk.

Ataturk was a gift to the Turkish people, as well as a gift to Middle Eastern civilization as a whole. He tried ever so hard to modernize Turkey and turn it into a progressive, forward-looking state. He promoted science and rejected superstition. He placed a huge emphasis on secularism, free thought, science and evolution. He was well ahead of his time and, to be brutally honest, the Turkish people didn't deserve him.

It's clear that the majority of Turks want someone like Ahmadinejad and Khomeini instead of a person like Ataturk, who was admired even by the likes of Albert Einstein.

The sad thing is that many Islamist Turks fail to appreciate that Ataturk was the reason why their nation survived in the first place.

Turkey was on the brink of destruction, and many foreign powers were thinking about shredding Turkey into tiny pieces until there was nothing left of it. Ataturk brought Turkey back from the dead. Were it not for him and his like-minded friends, Turkey in its current size/form would have never existed.

I have no idea why people even trust that Erdogan would preserve Turkey's secular identity. Just take a look at what's happening to Turkey's education system. Evolution is being removed from science books and replaced with creationist theories. Schoolchildren are now being taught about jihad and superstition instead of science and enlightenment. There's a huge brain drain going on in Turkey right now. The country is slowly being transformed into a Sunni version of Iran.

If Erdogan gets his own way come April, he will be able to rule Turkey by decree. Nothing will stand in his way ever again. All checks and balances would be destroyed, and the Turkish army will be entirely under his command. The Islamization process in Turkey will accelerate at an alarming rate once he consolidates more executive powers. The death penalty would be reinstated, many political parties will be banned, school curriculums would be further Islamized, more individual rights and liberties will be taken away from the citizens, etc.

The Turks will really regret what they're doing. Little do they appreciate why liberal democracies have separation of powers and checks and balances. They will soon realize that giving a lot of power to one person is the worst mistake they've ever made.

Well, good luck. It was nice knowing you, Turkey lol. I guess I could finally welcome Turkey to the Arab World.

By the way, isn't it kinda embarrassing that poorer countries in sub-Saharan Africa that are nowhere near as developed as Turkey, such as Senegal and Ghana, are many times freer and more democratic than Turkey? The same goes for the Arab countries. It's really embarrassing when you consider how poorer and less fortunate countries are doing better than the Middle East in terms of democracy and liberties.

On a final note, I really hope Erdogan's referendum fails, for the sake of whatever's left of Turkish democracy. Not only will his victory send the wrong message to other autocrats in the region, but it will also backfire badly on Turkey in the long-term. If Turkey becomes autocratic, then the chances of a civil war inside Turkey will increase manyfold. Autocracies always lead to internal/domestic conflicts in the long-term. Erdogan should know this better than anyone else, considering he lives in a region where many civil wars have emerged in recent years directly as a result of autocratic rule.

 

[Saho]

Why do you think this thread is in this section?
They know that this thread in the Turkish section would have been locked already,the only way they can keep insulting Ataturk without consequences.

But why?

Where is the "freedom of speech"?

PDF is not North Korea and I am sure this is not in punishable by law in Turkey right?

 

[T-123456]

But why?

Where is the "freedom of speech"?

PDF is not North Korea and I am sure this is not in punishable by law in Turkey right?

Freedom of speech has its limits,its not freedom of speech when you insult the hero of your own nation.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It is very true , one can live in a secular state maintain a balance with religions around them , and yet also have capacity to remained focused on their own ideals and goals to be driven from life

Seem great ideas mentioned by Turkish head of state

 

[damm1t]

The Turks are destroying their own country by repeatedly voting for Islamist clowns like Erdogan and by indirectly helping the AKP reverse everything that Ataturk achieved for the Turkish nation.

How exactly ? Give some examples. Enlight us.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

How exactly ? Give some examples. Enlight us.

Does it surprise you that PKK/HDP/CHP and Ulusalcis all hate Ottoman Muslim values? They love to paint the picture like the following: The problem with Muslims in Turkey is they dont respect secularism and human rights. Oh REALLY?

When were Muslim women denied education a fundamental human right? When were Turkish people living in abject poverty so that their incompetent selfish idiotic leaders could ruin our nation? And so much more.

We all know who represents discipline, competence and progress in Turkey. It's definately not former "Kemalist" regimes

 

[somebozo]

Whatever Erdogan is banking on was achieved during successor regimes of Kemalist...the Islamist of Turkey are like Islamist of Pakistan except that the Islamist of Pakistan have already hijacked the state and the Turks are on their way! If there was no Ata Turk and then only existence of Turkey would be Ottoman empire in history books.. by preserving Turkey, Ata Turk only created a playing field for Islamist to concentrate and fight another day for power..and Erdogan is making that happen..!

Ata Turk was not born over night, he was a representative of Turkish people and officers flush with frustrations against Ottoman regime..the movement was born out of public sentiments..

You may see the reversal of this very soon in Turkey!

The Turks are destroying their own country by repeatedly voting for Islamist clowns like Erdogan and by indirectly helping the AKP reverse everything that Ataturk achieved for the Turkish nation.

The truth is, the majority of Turks never deserved someone like Ataturk.

Ataturk was a gift to the Turkish people, as well as a gift to Middle Eastern civilization as a whole. He tried ever so hard to modernize Turkey and turn it into a progressive, forward-looking state. He promoted science and rejected superstition. He placed a huge emphasis on secularism, free thought, science and evolution. He was well ahead of his time and, to be brutally honest, the Turkish people didn't deserve him.

It's clear that the majority of Turks want someone like Ahmadinejad and Khomeini instead of a person like Ataturk, who was admired even by the likes of Albert Einstein.

The sad thing is that many Islamist Turks fail to appreciate that Ataturk was the reason why their nation survived in the first place.

Turkey was on the brink of destruction, and many foreign powers were thinking about shredding Turkey into tiny pieces until there was nothing left of it. Ataturk brought Turkey back from the dead. Were it not for him and his like-minded friends, Turkey in its current size/form would have never existed.

I have no idea why people even trust that Erdogan would preserve Turkey's secular identity. Just take a look at what's happening to Turkey's education system. Evolution is being removed from science books and replaced with creationist theories. Schoolchildren are now being taught about jihad and superstition instead of science and enlightenment. There's a huge brain drain going on in Turkey right now. The country is slowly being transformed into a Sunni version of Iran.

If Erdogan gets his own way come April, he will be able to rule Turkey by decree. Nothing will stand in his way ever again. All checks and balances would be destroyed, and the Turkish army will be entirely under his command. The Islamization process in Turkey will accelerate at an alarming rate once he consolidates more executive powers. The death penalty would be reinstated, many political parties will be banned, school curriculums would be further Islamized, more individual rights and liberties will be taken away from the citizens, etc.

The Turks will really regret what they're doing. Little do they appreciate why liberal democracies have separation of powers and checks and balances. They will soon realize that giving a lot of power to one person is the worst mistake they've ever made.

Well, good luck. It was nice knowing you, Turkey lol. I guess I could finally welcome Turkey to the Arab World.

By the way, isn't it kinda embarrassing that poorer countries in sub-Saharan Africa that are nowhere near as developed as Turkey, such as Senegal and Ghana, are many times freer and more democratic than Turkey? The same goes for the Arab countries. It's really embarrassing when you consider how poorer and less fortunate countries are doing better than the Middle East in terms of democracy and liberties.

On a final note, I really hope Erdogan's referendum fails, for the sake of whatever's left of Turkish democracy. Not only will his victory send the wrong message to other autocrats in the region, but it will also backfire badly on Turkey in the long-term. If Turkey becomes autocratic, then the chances of a civil war inside Turkey will increase manyfold. Autocracies always lead to internal/domestic conflicts in the long-term. Erdogan should know this better than anyone else, considering he lives in a region where many civil wars have emerged in recent years directly as a result of autocratic rule.

How exactly ? Give some examples. Enlight us.

Does it surprise you that PKK/HDP/CHP and Ulusalcis all hate Ottoman Muslim values? They love to paint the picture like the following: The problem with Muslims in Turkey is they dont respect secularism and human rights. Oh REALLY?

When were Muslim women denied education a fundamental human right? When were Turkish people living in abject poverty so that their incompetent selfish idiotic leaders could ruin our nation? And so much more.

We all know who represents discipline, competence and progress in Turkey. It's definately not former "Kemalist" regimes

 

[BaybarsHan]

Sia girl's propaganda soo stupid

 

[Kuwaiti Girl]

Ataturk on science, superstition, democracy and liberty:

And the clown Erdogan:

 

[Saho]

What's wrong with what he said about women and social media (if quotes are true)? I don't know about the West but that's pretty much most people in the East would agree with what he says.

 

[Oublious]

Ataturk on women:

Erdogan on women:

He is so faking right about that, what makes you equal to men?

 

[RedEce]

“You don't have to abandon your identity, religion, traditions and culture. "

But that's how secularism works, you have to say goodbye to your identity, religion and traditions.

"One manifestation of secularism is asserting the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, or, in a state declared to be neutral on matters of belief, from the imposition by government of religion or religious practices upon its people."

Like I said several times before, secularism and Islam don't contradict each other necessarily.

Today, if there is anything in this world which actually contradicts Islam, that is secularism unfortunately.

But secularism does not mean that Pakistanis have to be gay like certain people claimed. This is ridiculous. You don't have to consume alcohol, you don't have to eat pork, you don't have to party if you don't want to. Secularism is simply a social concept of free choice.

"Another manifestation of secularism is the view that public activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be uninfluenced by religious beliefs or practices."

Secularism doesn't care if you are gay or not, free choice comes with responsibility and if no one pays attention to those responsibilities then the society ends up having the likes of Trump and Modi.

 

[war&peace]

“If the faith of all religious groups in this country is guaranteed in the constitution, and the state’s equal distance to all religious groups is a foundation, why do you need to emphasize Islam? If I can live my faith as a Muslim the way I want to, the issue is over. If a Christian can live his/her Christianity, if a Jew can live his/her Jewishness or an atheist can live his/her atheism, the issue is also over for them.”

- Recep Tayyip Erdogan

Golden words.