Enough of army-bashing...now let’s look ahead

[nirreich]

^^ It is funny that you accept that a system exists, but at the same time you very easily reject it on pleas that are not based on facts. i would have not argued with you on this if we were talking about this when Musharraf was in power, or when Zia was ruling Pakistan, but then today it is totally a different story. Gen Kiyani, the guy who brought every uniform (appointed by Musharraf) back from the civilian organizations the day he took over, Gen Kiyani, who goes to the PM Sectt and briefs the PM in person - an unprecedented initiative. Gen Kiyani whose interference was the minimal in the history of Pakistan, notwithstanding that fact that the only visible interference by him was in the much needed case of CJP.

So:

[/QUOTE]

Again, you did not contradicted any of my arguments. The fact that Kayani goes and brief PM and President doe not say much - even Bhutto was briefed by Aslam Beg, and we all know how it ended. The army and COAS are the one who dictate the policy and the national objectives and no one can challenge their persepctive - not the president, not the PM and not even MOD.

Enclosed a report from 'The News International' how the army really dealt with his officers in civilian administration:


The men in uniform still ruling the roost



By By Ansar Abbasi
6/10/2008
ISLAMABAD: Serving and retired officers of the armed forces continue to dominate the top civilian set-up and their number has crossed the figure of 500.

Despite the Feb 18 election mandate and indications by the army high command that men in uniform were being pulled out, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani continues with majority of political appointments made by the previous government.

Following prime ministerís direction, the Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani has recalled a considerable number of serving Army officers back to the barracks but hundreds of ex-servicemen continue to serve on key government posts that were offered to them by Musharrafís military regime.

This is the first-ever civilian set-up to have inherited not only a record number of political appointments but is also continuing with the same. Traditionally new governments do not carry the extra-luggage and resort to termination of the contracts of political appointments made by the previous regime.

However, the incumbent regime of Yousuf Raza Gilani seems to be status quo-oriented. While the total number of political appointees runs into thousands, the number of Khakis, both serving and retired, occupying civilian posts, is more than 500.

The dominant majority of these appointees fall in the category of ex-servicemen, most of them appointed without prior clearance from the GHQ. A number of serving army officers are presently holding the positions, which have been offered to the military officers traditionally.

Details show that more than 50 key civilian posts are currently held by the serving or retired General or their equivalents in the Navy and Air Force; 91 by retired or serving brigadiers or equivalent; while there are hundreds of serving/retired colonels, majors and captains or their equivalent in Navy and Air Force in different civilian institutions.

Amongst others the retired/serving Generals serving the Gilani government include Lt Gen (retd) Muhammad Zubair, Member Planning Commission; Lt Gen (retd) Prof Dr KA Karamat, advisor (Health), Planning Commission; Lt Gen (retd) Javed Hasan, Rector National School of Public Policy (NSPP); Chairman FPSC Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Hameed; Lt Gen (retd) Abdul Ahad Najmi. Member FPSC; Rear Admiral (retd) Nishat Rafi, Member FPSC; Vice Admiral (retd) Ahmad Hayat, Chairman Karachi Port Trust; Air Marshal(retd) Shahid Hameed, Chairman Alternate Energy Development Board (recently removed); Vice Admiral (retd) M Asad Qureshi, Chairman Port Qasim Authority; Lt Gen Nadeem Ahmad, Deputy Chairman ERRA, repatriated to Army by the present regime; AVM (retd) Muhammad Ateeb Siddiqui, MD Federal Employees Benevolent and Group Insurance Funds; Rear Admiral Ahsanul Haq Chaudhry, Chairman Gwadar Port Authority; Lt Gen Syed Sabahat Husain, Chairman Pakistan Ordinance Factories; Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry, Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Board, Kamra; AVM (retd) Ayaz Mahmood, Director General Ministry of Interior; Vice Admiral Interior Iftikhar Ahmad, MD Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works; AVM Sajid Habib, Deputy DG Civil Aviation Authority; AVM Iqbal Haidar, Ambassador to Libya; AVM Interior Shahzad Aslam Chaudhry, Ambassador to Sri Lanka; Admiral (retd) Shahid Karimullah, Ambassador to Saudi Arabia; Lt Gen (retd) Khateer Hasan Khan, Ambassador to Thailand; Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Siddiq Tirmizi, Secretary Defence Production; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Asif Riaz Bukhari, DG Civil Service Reforms Unit; DG NIPA Lahore Maj Gen (retd) Sikandar Shami; Maj Gen (retd) Farooq Ahmad Khan, Chairman Prime Ministerís Inspection Commission; Maj Gen Akhtar Iqbal, Deputy Chief of Staff to President; Press Secretary to President Maj Gen (retd) Rashid Qureshi, who had actually retired as Brigadier from Army but was given shoulder promotion as Maj Gen by Musharraf; Maj Gen Tariq Salim Malik, Additional Secretary Defence Production Division; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Jaweed, Chairman Evacuee Trust Property Board; Maj Gen Mahmud Ai Durrani, Ambassador of Pakistan to US and now adviser to Prime Minister on National Security; Maj Gen Asif Ali, Surveyor General, Survey of Pakistan; Rear Admiral (retd)(retd) Syed Afzal, G Ports and Shipping wing, Port Qasim Authority; Maj Gen (retd)Syed Haider Jawed, Ambassador to Brunei Darussalam; Maj Gen (retd) Tahir Mahmud Qazi, Ambassador to Malaysia; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Shua-ul-Qamar, Chairman National Telecommunication Corporation; Maj Gen (retd) Ali Baz Khan, Ambassador to Indonesia; Maj Gen (retd) Ghazanfar Ali Khan, Ambassador to Ukraine; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Yasin, Member Administration, Federal Bureau of Revenue; Maj Gen (retd) Fahim Akhtar, DG Intelligence and Investigation, FBR; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Shahid Mukhtar Shah, DG National Institute of Science and Technology; Maj Gen (retd) Inayatullah Khan Niazi, Chairman Federal Lands Commission; Maj Gen (retd) Shahzada Alam, Chairman Pakistan Telecommunication Authority; AVM Tariq Matin, MD Stedec Technology Commercialization Corporation of Pakistan (Pvt) Ltd; Maj Gen Imtiaz Ahmad, Chairman National Highway Authority (NHA); Maj Gen (retd) Zaheer Ahmad Khan, Chairman State Engineering Corporation; Maj Gen (retd) Zafar Abbas Chairman National Fertilizer Corporation Ltd; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Javed, Chairman Pakistan Steels (recently removed); Maj Gen (retd) Shahida Malik, DG Health; Maj Gen (retd) Masood Anwar Executive Director National Institute of Health; Maj Gen Wajahat Ali Mufti, DG MI&C, Ministry of Defence; AVM M Kamal Alam, Director PIA; Maj Gen Syed Khalid Amir Jaffery, DG Anti-narcotics Force; Maj Gen Muhammad Siddique, Deputy Chairman NAB reverted to Army by the present regime; Maj Gen Aftab Ahmad, reverted to Army from NAB by the present regime; Maj Gen Mukhtar Ahmad, DG NAB, reverted to Army from NAB by the present regime; Maj Gen Shahid Ahmad Hashmat, DG NAB, also reverted to Army by this government.

The Brigade of the serving and retired Brigadiers include Brig Javed Iqbal Ahmad, DG Federal Directorate of Education; Brig Bilal Hameed, Inspector General Development Projects, Planning Commission; Brig Abdul Qadir, Secretary Health Gilgit; Brig (retd) Syed Ghulam Akbar Bukhari, MD PEAC; Brig (retd) Muhammad Sarfaraz, MD Baitul Maal; Brig (retd) Muhammad Younus, Deputy MD Baitul Maal; Brig (retd) Tariq Hamid Khan, DG National Security Council; Brig (retd) Faroghuddin Anjum, Director Education; Brig (retd) Atiqur Rahman, GM PTDC; Eng Brig (retd) Usman Shafi, GM Planning PTDC; Brig (retd) Dr Khaliqur Rahman Shah, Project Coordinator Higher Education Commission; Commodore (retd) Muhammad S Shamshad, Chairman Federal Board of Intermediate and Secondary Education, Islamabad; Brig Shahryar Ashraf, GM NHA; Brig Zaheer Ahmad Rashad, GM NHA; Brig (retd) Hafeez Ahmad, MD Utility Stores Corporation; Brig (retd) Allah Ditta, Coordinator Franchise Utility Stores Corporation; Brig (retd) Naseem Ahmad, Incharge Development Cell, State Engineering Corporation; Brig (retd) Abdul Qayyum, Principal Executive Officer Pakistan steel; Brig (retd) Akhtar Zamin, Chairman Employees Old-Age Benefit Institute; Brig (retd) Shakeel Ahmad, Consultant Pemra; Brig Riaz Ahmad Noor, DG Frequency Allocation Board; Brig (retd) Muhammad Mazhar Qayyum Butt, DG PTA; Brig (retd) Aslam Shahab Hasan, DG PTA; Brig (retd) Muhammad Zubair Tahir, Consultant PTA; Brig (retd) Asad Munir, Member CDA; Brig Nusratullah, Member CDA; Brig Zahid Ahmad Malik, Secretary NTISB, Cabinet Division; Brig Raja Imitaz Ayub, Cabinet Division; Brig Shahid Majid, Member NHA; Brig (retd) Ghulam Haider, GM NHA; Brig Sohail Masood Alvi, DG NHA; Brig Arshad Wahab, GM Pakistan Steel; Brig (retd) Asad Hakeem, DG PASB Department; Air Cdre M Najib Khan, GM PIA; Brig (retd) Sikandar Javaid, Project Director CDWA; Brig (retd) Muhammad Musaddiq, Director NAB; Brig (retd) Inayatul Ilyas, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Khalid Pervaiz, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Ashfaq Ashraf, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Irfan, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Farooq Hameed Khan, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Amir Najeed, Consultant NAB; Brig Abdul Rahman Raza Khan, COS NAB Headquarter, returned to Army by the present regime; Brig Sajjad Bakhshi, Director NAB, now returned to Army; Brig Tariq Suhail, director NAB; Brig Ihsanul Haq, Director NAB; Brig Gul Farid Khan, COS NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Ali Asif, GM OGDC; Brig (retd) Muhammad Khalid S Khokhar, MD Pakistan Mineral Development Corporation; Brig (retd) Mukhtar Ahmad, GM Sui Southern Gas Company; Brig (retd) Zulqarnain Ahmad, GM Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Ltd; Brig (retd) Syed Tariq Hassan, Director Punjab ASB Department; Brig (retd) Muhammad Akram Director Punjab ASB Deptt; Brig Babar Idress, ANF; Brig Sultan Mahmood Satti, Director ANF; Brig Pervez Sarwar Khan, Director ANF; Brig Amjad Pervez, Director ANF; Brig Faizul Karim Khan Kurki, ANF; Brig Pervez Khalid, ANF; Brig Muhammad Asif Alvi; Brig Saleem Mahmood; Brig (retd) Muhammad Younas, DG Board of Investment; Brig Riaz Arshad, Additional DG, Cabinet Division; Brig Ahmad Nawaz Zafar, Chief of Staff, PMís Secretariat; Brig Muhammad Anwar Khan, Director Civil Works, Ministry of Defence Production; Brig Ijaz Mahmood, Commandant, Ministry of Industries, Production and Special Initiative; Brig (retd) Saleem Ahmad Moeen, Chairman Nadra; Brig (retd) Shahid Akram Kardar, Member Directing Staff, Pakistan Administrative Staff College; Cdre M Saeed Kureshi, DG Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Air Cdre Zafar Iqbal Haider, OSD, Ministry of Defence Production; Brig Pervez Sarwar Khan, Director, Narcotics Ministry; Brig Ghulam Hafiz, Chief Engineer, Ministry of Information Technology; Brig Sher Afgan Khan Niazi, Member Erra; Brig Muhammad Salik Javed, Member Erra; Brig Shahid Saleem Lone, GM, Karachi Port Trust; Brig Abid Husain Bhatti, OSD, Defence Production Division; Brig Waqar Iqbal Raja, DG Erra; Air Cdre Abbas Petiwala, Chief of Calibration, Defence Ministry; Brig Akhtar Javed Warraich, DG Erra; Brig Muhammad Arshad Abbasi, Director General Wafaqi Mohtasib Secretariat; Brig Javed Iqbal, GM Ministry of Information Technology; Cdre Muhammad Ali, DG Gawadar Port Authority; Brig (retd) M Ashraf Siddiqi, DG Defence Production Division; Brig (retd) Muhammad Anwar Khan, DG, Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Brig (retd) Tariq Hamid Khan, DG National Security Council; Cdre Azhar Hayat, GM Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Brig Nadeem Mahmood, Chief Medical Officer, Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Brig (retd) Javed Iqbal Cheema, DG National Crisis Management Cell, Interior Ministry; Brig (retd) Javed Iqbal Sattar, Directing Staff, NSPP; Brig (retd) Anwar-ul- Haq, Directing Staff NSPP; Brig (retd) Zubair Ahmed Chaudhry, Directing Staff NSPP and others. The above list may include some names of serving officers, already repatriated to GHQ, or those ex-servicemen, who may have left during the recent weeks and months.

Besides the long list of Khakis, a large number of re-employed retired civilian bureaucrats, contractual appointees from private sector and several dozen of those political appointees carrying huge salary package under MP scales have also been inherited by the present regime, which so far remains indifferent to such appointments

 

[muse]

You move on after the Army has taken any corrective steps. CIA officers are being kicked out, no they are getting some more visas, drone attacks won't happen, drone attacks are happening, Nato strikes won't happen, Nato strikes are happening.

At this point, mazeed jootay khanay wali baatein ki hain Army k leaders ne.

Trust me there is an innate desire to forgive the Army and restore its previous glory. But it has to meet us half way. It has to at least come off as trying correct its mistakes and ji hazoori to the US.

And it refuses to meet us halfway - we are TOLD, "enough" - these people are clueless.

 

[MastanKhan]

nirreich,

Thank you very much for your posts. As a pakistani, I appreciate the time and effort it has taken on your part to share how you see us and what you perceive about us.

As a pakistani, I can tell you that we have a very hard time with people who show us the mirror----because it has never been a part of our culture and cultural heritage to see ourselves in a less than perfect condition---.

We know that we have screwed up for many a years and no end in sight---possibly due to the reason that we pakistanis never knew how to suck upto the u s---like your people----. We have not done too well in the battles that we had with india---but I guess we did pretty good with what we were facing----yes we should have had better results in the 65 and 71 war as well as the 48 war----truthfully----our generals proved to be cowards as well ----but not too different than your general staff officers in the 73 war.

Only if we had col ranked officers like the capability of Col Sharon----we could have done some serious damage----even our air force at staff head quarters was filled up with cowards and traitors and those who were in love with their image---our air force command officer---the air chief marshall in 1971 was a coward and traitor as well and no officer in the staff headquarter had the courage to execute him----or the ACM before the 65 war----.

Your generals were not too far behind ours in 1973-----only if the arab nation were not as deceitful to their own---ie---the other arab nation---you would have had issues as well----and only if they could have marketed themselves a little better than they did to the europeans and americans---yours would be stinking as bad as ours

But the truth is that we can't live like we have been living----pakistan is no more for the pakistanis----if the literate pakistanis on this board think like that---then indeed pakistan is doomed----I mean to say---paks need to get their heads out from where there is no light and look at this world with a different perspective----for how long they can play 'living stupid' ----.

 

[muse]

for how long they can play 'living stupid

'

As long as someone else pays for it - it's the truth. Hoping this army can fly straight is clutching at straws.

 

[MastanKhan]

'

As long as someone else pays for it - it's the truth. Hoping this army can fly straight is clutching at straws.

Hi,

It is a tragedy that the pak millitary has turned mentally inside---whereas they should have opened up to widen their horizons----but in order to do that---they needed a visionary----someone who is not insecure or less insecure---a person---a man who can understand the happenings in the world and convey it to the officers of the pak millitary----.

Their decisions since 9/11 have been from bad to worse----their analysis of the situation has been from terrible to beyond terrible----their assessment of the threat level posed by al qaeda has been on a level of someone who is living in a cave----their analysis of---actually they had no analysis of how india would react after the u s came back to romance them again.

If I compare their mental capabilities to a young 18 years old american kid from mid-west----that kid could not have done any worse than what the pakistani generals did in assessing the threat. Some day I would like to sit with some of them and talk to them and see why they think what they think.

 

[muse]

You know what this army doesn't get ? It doesn't get that we want "success" from it - nothing else - and no sooner than you say that and they will come around to "negotiate" what we, the rest of us, will have to do for this army to perhaps, someday, no guarantees in this world you know, might succeed, possibly against unarmed journalists or ordinary citizens.

 

[Xeric]

Again, you did not contradicted any of my arguments. The fact that Kayani goes and brief PM and President doe not say much - even Bhutto was briefed by Aslam Beg, and we all know how it ended. The army and COAS are the one who dictate the policy and the national objectives and no one can challenge their persepctive - not the president, not the PM and not even MOD.

Enclosed a report from 'The News International' how the army really dealt with his officers in civilian administration:


The men in uniform still ruling the roost



By By Ansar Abbasi
6/10/2008
ISLAMABAD: Serving and retired officers of the armed forces continue to dominate the top civilian set-up and their number has crossed the figure of 500.

Despite the Feb 18 election mandate and indications by the army high command that men in uniform were being pulled out, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani continues with majority of political appointments made by the previous government.

Following prime ministerís direction, the Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani has recalled a considerable number of serving Army officers back to the barracks but hundreds of ex-servicemen continue to serve on key government posts that were offered to them by Musharrafís military regime.

This is the first-ever civilian set-up to have inherited not only a record number of political appointments but is also continuing with the same. Traditionally new governments do not carry the extra-luggage and resort to termination of the contracts of political appointments made by the previous regime.

However, the incumbent regime of Yousuf Raza Gilani seems to be status quo-oriented. While the total number of political appointees runs into thousands, the number of Khakis, both serving and retired, occupying civilian posts, is more than 500.

The dominant majority of these appointees fall in the category of ex-servicemen, most of them appointed without prior clearance from the GHQ. A number of serving army officers are presently holding the positions, which have been offered to the military officers traditionally.

Details show that more than 50 key civilian posts are currently held by the serving or retired General or their equivalents in the Navy and Air Force; 91 by retired or serving brigadiers or equivalent; while there are hundreds of serving/retired colonels, majors and captains or their equivalent in Navy and Air Force in different civilian institutions.

Amongst others the retired/serving Generals serving the Gilani government include Lt Gen (retd) Muhammad Zubair, Member Planning Commission; Lt Gen (retd) Prof Dr KA Karamat, advisor (Health), Planning Commission; Lt Gen (retd) Javed Hasan, Rector National School of Public Policy (NSPP); Chairman FPSC Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Hameed; Lt Gen (retd) Abdul Ahad Najmi. Member FPSC; Rear Admiral (retd) Nishat Rafi, Member FPSC; Vice Admiral (retd) Ahmad Hayat, Chairman Karachi Port Trust; Air Marshal(retd) Shahid Hameed, Chairman Alternate Energy Development Board (recently removed); Vice Admiral (retd) M Asad Qureshi, Chairman Port Qasim Authority; Lt Gen Nadeem Ahmad, Deputy Chairman ERRA, repatriated to Army by the present regime; AVM (retd) Muhammad Ateeb Siddiqui, MD Federal Employees Benevolent and Group Insurance Funds; Rear Admiral Ahsanul Haq Chaudhry, Chairman Gwadar Port Authority; Lt Gen Syed Sabahat Husain, Chairman Pakistan Ordinance Factories; Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry, Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Board, Kamra; AVM (retd) Ayaz Mahmood, Director General Ministry of Interior; Vice Admiral Interior Iftikhar Ahmad, MD Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works; AVM Sajid Habib, Deputy DG Civil Aviation Authority; AVM Iqbal Haidar, Ambassador to Libya; AVM Interior Shahzad Aslam Chaudhry, Ambassador to Sri Lanka; Admiral (retd) Shahid Karimullah, Ambassador to Saudi Arabia; Lt Gen (retd) Khateer Hasan Khan, Ambassador to Thailand; Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Siddiq Tirmizi, Secretary Defence Production; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Asif Riaz Bukhari, DG Civil Service Reforms Unit; DG NIPA Lahore Maj Gen (retd) Sikandar Shami; Maj Gen (retd) Farooq Ahmad Khan, Chairman Prime Ministerís Inspection Commission; Maj Gen Akhtar Iqbal, Deputy Chief of Staff to President; Press Secretary to President Maj Gen (retd) Rashid Qureshi, who had actually retired as Brigadier from Army but was given shoulder promotion as Maj Gen by Musharraf; Maj Gen Tariq Salim Malik, Additional Secretary Defence Production Division; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Jaweed, Chairman Evacuee Trust Property Board; Maj Gen Mahmud Ai Durrani, Ambassador of Pakistan to US and now adviser to Prime Minister on National Security; Maj Gen Asif Ali, Surveyor General, Survey of Pakistan; Rear Admiral (retd)(retd) Syed Afzal, G Ports and Shipping wing, Port Qasim Authority; Maj Gen (retd)Syed Haider Jawed, Ambassador to Brunei Darussalam; Maj Gen (retd) Tahir Mahmud Qazi, Ambassador to Malaysia; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Shua-ul-Qamar, Chairman National Telecommunication Corporation; Maj Gen (retd) Ali Baz Khan, Ambassador to Indonesia; Maj Gen (retd) Ghazanfar Ali Khan, Ambassador to Ukraine; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Yasin, Member Administration, Federal Bureau of Revenue; Maj Gen (retd) Fahim Akhtar, DG Intelligence and Investigation, FBR; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Shahid Mukhtar Shah, DG National Institute of Science and Technology; Maj Gen (retd) Inayatullah Khan Niazi, Chairman Federal Lands Commission; Maj Gen (retd) Shahzada Alam, Chairman Pakistan Telecommunication Authority; AVM Tariq Matin, MD Stedec Technology Commercialization Corporation of Pakistan (Pvt) Ltd; Maj Gen Imtiaz Ahmad, Chairman National Highway Authority (NHA); Maj Gen (retd) Zaheer Ahmad Khan, Chairman State Engineering Corporation; Maj Gen (retd) Zafar Abbas Chairman National Fertilizer Corporation Ltd; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Javed, Chairman Pakistan Steels (recently removed); Maj Gen (retd) Shahida Malik, DG Health; Maj Gen (retd) Masood Anwar Executive Director National Institute of Health; Maj Gen Wajahat Ali Mufti, DG MI&C, Ministry of Defence; AVM M Kamal Alam, Director PIA; Maj Gen Syed Khalid Amir Jaffery, DG Anti-narcotics Force; Maj Gen Muhammad Siddique, Deputy Chairman NAB reverted to Army by the present regime; Maj Gen Aftab Ahmad, reverted to Army from NAB by the present regime; Maj Gen Mukhtar Ahmad, DG NAB, reverted to Army from NAB by the present regime; Maj Gen Shahid Ahmad Hashmat, DG NAB, also reverted to Army by this government.

The Brigade of the serving and retired Brigadiers include Brig Javed Iqbal Ahmad, DG Federal Directorate of Education; Brig Bilal Hameed, Inspector General Development Projects, Planning Commission; Brig Abdul Qadir, Secretary Health Gilgit; Brig (retd) Syed Ghulam Akbar Bukhari, MD PEAC; Brig (retd) Muhammad Sarfaraz, MD Baitul Maal; Brig (retd) Muhammad Younus, Deputy MD Baitul Maal; Brig (retd) Tariq Hamid Khan, DG National Security Council; Brig (retd) Faroghuddin Anjum, Director Education; Brig (retd) Atiqur Rahman, GM PTDC; Eng Brig (retd) Usman Shafi, GM Planning PTDC; Brig (retd) Dr Khaliqur Rahman Shah, Project Coordinator Higher Education Commission; Commodore (retd) Muhammad S Shamshad, Chairman Federal Board of Intermediate and Secondary Education, Islamabad; Brig Shahryar Ashraf, GM NHA; Brig Zaheer Ahmad Rashad, GM NHA; Brig (retd) Hafeez Ahmad, MD Utility Stores Corporation; Brig (retd) Allah Ditta, Coordinator Franchise Utility Stores Corporation; Brig (retd) Naseem Ahmad, Incharge Development Cell, State Engineering Corporation; Brig (retd) Abdul Qayyum, Principal Executive Officer Pakistan steel; Brig (retd) Akhtar Zamin, Chairman Employees Old-Age Benefit Institute; Brig (retd) Shakeel Ahmad, Consultant Pemra; Brig Riaz Ahmad Noor, DG Frequency Allocation Board; Brig (retd) Muhammad Mazhar Qayyum Butt, DG PTA; Brig (retd) Aslam Shahab Hasan, DG PTA; Brig (retd) Muhammad Zubair Tahir, Consultant PTA; Brig (retd) Asad Munir, Member CDA; Brig Nusratullah, Member CDA; Brig Zahid Ahmad Malik, Secretary NTISB, Cabinet Division; Brig Raja Imitaz Ayub, Cabinet Division; Brig Shahid Majid, Member NHA; Brig (retd) Ghulam Haider, GM NHA; Brig Sohail Masood Alvi, DG NHA; Brig Arshad Wahab, GM Pakistan Steel; Brig (retd) Asad Hakeem, DG PASB Department; Air Cdre M Najib Khan, GM PIA; Brig (retd) Sikandar Javaid, Project Director CDWA; Brig (retd) Muhammad Musaddiq, Director NAB; Brig (retd) Inayatul Ilyas, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Khalid Pervaiz, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Ashfaq Ashraf, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Irfan, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Farooq Hameed Khan, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Amir Najeed, Consultant NAB; Brig Abdul Rahman Raza Khan, COS NAB Headquarter, returned to Army by the present regime; Brig Sajjad Bakhshi, Director NAB, now returned to Army; Brig Tariq Suhail, director NAB; Brig Ihsanul Haq, Director NAB; Brig Gul Farid Khan, COS NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Ali Asif, GM OGDC; Brig (retd) Muhammad Khalid S Khokhar, MD Pakistan Mineral Development Corporation; Brig (retd) Mukhtar Ahmad, GM Sui Southern Gas Company; Brig (retd) Zulqarnain Ahmad, GM Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Ltd; Brig (retd) Syed Tariq Hassan, Director Punjab ASB Department; Brig (retd) Muhammad Akram Director Punjab ASB Deptt; Brig Babar Idress, ANF; Brig Sultan Mahmood Satti, Director ANF; Brig Pervez Sarwar Khan, Director ANF; Brig Amjad Pervez, Director ANF; Brig Faizul Karim Khan Kurki, ANF; Brig Pervez Khalid, ANF; Brig Muhammad Asif Alvi; Brig Saleem Mahmood; Brig (retd) Muhammad Younas, DG Board of Investment; Brig Riaz Arshad, Additional DG, Cabinet Division; Brig Ahmad Nawaz Zafar, Chief of Staff, PMís Secretariat; Brig Muhammad Anwar Khan, Director Civil Works, Ministry of Defence Production; Brig Ijaz Mahmood, Commandant, Ministry of Industries, Production and Special Initiative; Brig (retd) Saleem Ahmad Moeen, Chairman Nadra; Brig (retd) Shahid Akram Kardar, Member Directing Staff, Pakistan Administrative Staff College; Cdre M Saeed Kureshi, DG Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Air Cdre Zafar Iqbal Haider, OSD, Ministry of Defence Production; Brig Pervez Sarwar Khan, Director, Narcotics Ministry; Brig Ghulam Hafiz, Chief Engineer, Ministry of Information Technology; Brig Sher Afgan Khan Niazi, Member Erra; Brig Muhammad Salik Javed, Member Erra; Brig Shahid Saleem Lone, GM, Karachi Port Trust; Brig Abid Husain Bhatti, OSD, Defence Production Division; Brig Waqar Iqbal Raja, DG Erra; Air Cdre Abbas Petiwala, Chief of Calibration, Defence Ministry; Brig Akhtar Javed Warraich, DG Erra; Brig Muhammad Arshad Abbasi, Director General Wafaqi Mohtasib Secretariat; Brig Javed Iqbal, GM Ministry of Information Technology; Cdre Muhammad Ali, DG Gawadar Port Authority; Brig (retd) M Ashraf Siddiqi, DG Defence Production Division; Brig (retd) Muhammad Anwar Khan, DG, Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Brig (retd) Tariq Hamid Khan, DG National Security Council; Cdre Azhar Hayat, GM Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Brig Nadeem Mahmood, Chief Medical Officer, Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Brig (retd) Javed Iqbal Cheema, DG National Crisis Management Cell, Interior Ministry; Brig (retd) Javed Iqbal Sattar, Directing Staff, NSPP; Brig (retd) Anwar-ul- Haq, Directing Staff NSPP; Brig (retd) Zubair Ahmed Chaudhry, Directing Staff NSPP and others. The above list may include some names of serving officers, already repatriated to GHQ, or those ex-servicemen, who may have left during the recent weeks and months.

Besides the long list of Khakis, a large number of re-employed retired civilian bureaucrats, contractual appointees from private sector and several dozen of those political appointees carrying huge salary package under MP scales have also been inherited by the present regime, which so far remains indifferent to such appointments

Qouting a news from 2008..WTF!!

And that too most of the officers who are retired!

i have answered each and every point of the above quoted news link in the past. Though some of these appointments were made by Gen Musharraf to keep the retd generals at bay, but then it something like appointing any other retiree again in the public sector (on merit), which is common to every country as military personnel retire at a younger age!!

So:

 

[muse]

-- but we love ya

 

[Bratva]

Again, you did not contradicted any of my arguments. The fact that Kayani goes and brief PM and President doe not say much - even Bhutto was briefed by Aslam Beg, and we all know how it ended. The army and COAS are the one who dictate the policy and the national objectives and no one can challenge their persepctive - not the president, not the PM and not even MOD.

Enclosed a report from 'The News International' how the army really dealt with his officers in civilian administration:


The men in uniform still ruling the roost



By By Ansar Abbasi
6/10/2008
ISLAMABAD: Serving and retired officers of the armed forces continue to dominate the top civilian set-up and their number has crossed the figure of 500.

Despite the Feb 18 election mandate and indications by the army high command that men in uniform were being pulled out, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani continues with majority of political appointments made by the previous government.

Following prime ministerís direction, the Chief of Army Staff General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani has recalled a considerable number of serving Army officers back to the barracks but hundreds of ex-servicemen continue to serve on key government posts that were offered to them by Musharrafís military regime.

This is the first-ever civilian set-up to have inherited not only a record number of political appointments but is also continuing with the same. Traditionally new governments do not carry the extra-luggage and resort to termination of the contracts of political appointments made by the previous regime.

However, the incumbent regime of Yousuf Raza Gilani seems to be status quo-oriented. While the total number of political appointees runs into thousands, the number of Khakis, both serving and retired, occupying civilian posts, is more than 500.

The dominant majority of these appointees fall in the category of ex-servicemen, most of them appointed without prior clearance from the GHQ. A number of serving army officers are presently holding the positions, which have been offered to the military officers traditionally.

Details show that more than 50 key civilian posts are currently held by the serving or retired General or their equivalents in the Navy and Air Force; 91 by retired or serving brigadiers or equivalent; while there are hundreds of serving/retired colonels, majors and captains or their equivalent in Navy and Air Force in different civilian institutions.

Amongst others the retired/serving Generals serving the Gilani government include Lt Gen (retd) Muhammad Zubair, Member Planning Commission; Lt Gen (retd) Prof Dr KA Karamat, advisor (Health), Planning Commission; Lt Gen (retd) Javed Hasan, Rector National School of Public Policy (NSPP); Chairman FPSC Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Hameed; Lt Gen (retd) Abdul Ahad Najmi. Member FPSC; Rear Admiral (retd) Nishat Rafi, Member FPSC; Vice Admiral (retd) Ahmad Hayat, Chairman Karachi Port Trust; Air Marshal(retd) Shahid Hameed, Chairman Alternate Energy Development Board (recently removed); Vice Admiral (retd) M Asad Qureshi, Chairman Port Qasim Authority; Lt Gen Nadeem Ahmad, Deputy Chairman ERRA, repatriated to Army by the present regime; AVM (retd) Muhammad Ateeb Siddiqui, MD Federal Employees Benevolent and Group Insurance Funds; Rear Admiral Ahsanul Haq Chaudhry, Chairman Gwadar Port Authority; Lt Gen Syed Sabahat Husain, Chairman Pakistan Ordinance Factories; Air Marshal Khalid Chaudhry, Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Board, Kamra; AVM (retd) Ayaz Mahmood, Director General Ministry of Interior; Vice Admiral Interior Iftikhar Ahmad, MD Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works; AVM Sajid Habib, Deputy DG Civil Aviation Authority; AVM Iqbal Haidar, Ambassador to Libya; AVM Interior Shahzad Aslam Chaudhry, Ambassador to Sri Lanka; Admiral (retd) Shahid Karimullah, Ambassador to Saudi Arabia; Lt Gen (retd) Khateer Hasan Khan, Ambassador to Thailand; Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Siddiq Tirmizi, Secretary Defence Production; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Asif Riaz Bukhari, DG Civil Service Reforms Unit; DG NIPA Lahore Maj Gen (retd) Sikandar Shami; Maj Gen (retd) Farooq Ahmad Khan, Chairman Prime Ministerís Inspection Commission; Maj Gen Akhtar Iqbal, Deputy Chief of Staff to President; Press Secretary to President Maj Gen (retd) Rashid Qureshi, who had actually retired as Brigadier from Army but was given shoulder promotion as Maj Gen by Musharraf; Maj Gen Tariq Salim Malik, Additional Secretary Defence Production Division; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Jaweed, Chairman Evacuee Trust Property Board; Maj Gen Mahmud Ai Durrani, Ambassador of Pakistan to US and now adviser to Prime Minister on National Security; Maj Gen Asif Ali, Surveyor General, Survey of Pakistan; Rear Admiral (retd)(retd) Syed Afzal, G Ports and Shipping wing, Port Qasim Authority; Maj Gen (retd)Syed Haider Jawed, Ambassador to Brunei Darussalam; Maj Gen (retd) Tahir Mahmud Qazi, Ambassador to Malaysia; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Shua-ul-Qamar, Chairman National Telecommunication Corporation; Maj Gen (retd) Ali Baz Khan, Ambassador to Indonesia; Maj Gen (retd) Ghazanfar Ali Khan, Ambassador to Ukraine; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Yasin, Member Administration, Federal Bureau of Revenue; Maj Gen (retd) Fahim Akhtar, DG Intelligence and Investigation, FBR; Maj Gen (retd) Syed Shahid Mukhtar Shah, DG National Institute of Science and Technology; Maj Gen (retd) Inayatullah Khan Niazi, Chairman Federal Lands Commission; Maj Gen (retd) Shahzada Alam, Chairman Pakistan Telecommunication Authority; AVM Tariq Matin, MD Stedec Technology Commercialization Corporation of Pakistan (Pvt) Ltd; Maj Gen Imtiaz Ahmad, Chairman National Highway Authority (NHA); Maj Gen (retd) Zaheer Ahmad Khan, Chairman State Engineering Corporation; Maj Gen (retd) Zafar Abbas Chairman National Fertilizer Corporation Ltd; Maj Gen (retd) Muhammad Javed, Chairman Pakistan Steels (recently removed); Maj Gen (retd) Shahida Malik, DG Health; Maj Gen (retd) Masood Anwar Executive Director National Institute of Health; Maj Gen Wajahat Ali Mufti, DG MI&C, Ministry of Defence; AVM M Kamal Alam, Director PIA; Maj Gen Syed Khalid Amir Jaffery, DG Anti-narcotics Force; Maj Gen Muhammad Siddique, Deputy Chairman NAB reverted to Army by the present regime; Maj Gen Aftab Ahmad, reverted to Army from NAB by the present regime; Maj Gen Mukhtar Ahmad, DG NAB, reverted to Army from NAB by the present regime; Maj Gen Shahid Ahmad Hashmat, DG NAB, also reverted to Army by this government.

The Brigade of the serving and retired Brigadiers include Brig Javed Iqbal Ahmad, DG Federal Directorate of Education; Brig Bilal Hameed, Inspector General Development Projects, Planning Commission; Brig Abdul Qadir, Secretary Health Gilgit; Brig (retd) Syed Ghulam Akbar Bukhari, MD PEAC; Brig (retd) Muhammad Sarfaraz, MD Baitul Maal; Brig (retd) Muhammad Younus, Deputy MD Baitul Maal; Brig (retd) Tariq Hamid Khan, DG National Security Council; Brig (retd) Faroghuddin Anjum, Director Education; Brig (retd) Atiqur Rahman, GM PTDC; Eng Brig (retd) Usman Shafi, GM Planning PTDC; Brig (retd) Dr Khaliqur Rahman Shah, Project Coordinator Higher Education Commission; Commodore (retd) Muhammad S Shamshad, Chairman Federal Board of Intermediate and Secondary Education, Islamabad; Brig Shahryar Ashraf, GM NHA; Brig Zaheer Ahmad Rashad, GM NHA; Brig (retd) Hafeez Ahmad, MD Utility Stores Corporation; Brig (retd) Allah Ditta, Coordinator Franchise Utility Stores Corporation; Brig (retd) Naseem Ahmad, Incharge Development Cell, State Engineering Corporation; Brig (retd) Abdul Qayyum, Principal Executive Officer Pakistan steel; Brig (retd) Akhtar Zamin, Chairman Employees Old-Age Benefit Institute; Brig (retd) Shakeel Ahmad, Consultant Pemra; Brig Riaz Ahmad Noor, DG Frequency Allocation Board; Brig (retd) Muhammad Mazhar Qayyum Butt, DG PTA; Brig (retd) Aslam Shahab Hasan, DG PTA; Brig (retd) Muhammad Zubair Tahir, Consultant PTA; Brig (retd) Asad Munir, Member CDA; Brig Nusratullah, Member CDA; Brig Zahid Ahmad Malik, Secretary NTISB, Cabinet Division; Brig Raja Imitaz Ayub, Cabinet Division; Brig Shahid Majid, Member NHA; Brig (retd) Ghulam Haider, GM NHA; Brig Sohail Masood Alvi, DG NHA; Brig Arshad Wahab, GM Pakistan Steel; Brig (retd) Asad Hakeem, DG PASB Department; Air Cdre M Najib Khan, GM PIA; Brig (retd) Sikandar Javaid, Project Director CDWA; Brig (retd) Muhammad Musaddiq, Director NAB; Brig (retd) Inayatul Ilyas, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Khalid Pervaiz, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Ashfaq Ashraf, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Irfan, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Farooq Hameed Khan, Consultant NAB; Brig (retd) Amir Najeed, Consultant NAB; Brig Abdul Rahman Raza Khan, COS NAB Headquarter, returned to Army by the present regime; Brig Sajjad Bakhshi, Director NAB, now returned to Army; Brig Tariq Suhail, director NAB; Brig Ihsanul Haq, Director NAB; Brig Gul Farid Khan, COS NAB; Brig (retd) Muhammad Ali Asif, GM OGDC; Brig (retd) Muhammad Khalid S Khokhar, MD Pakistan Mineral Development Corporation; Brig (retd) Mukhtar Ahmad, GM Sui Southern Gas Company; Brig (retd) Zulqarnain Ahmad, GM Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Ltd; Brig (retd) Syed Tariq Hassan, Director Punjab ASB Department; Brig (retd) Muhammad Akram Director Punjab ASB Deptt; Brig Babar Idress, ANF; Brig Sultan Mahmood Satti, Director ANF; Brig Pervez Sarwar Khan, Director ANF; Brig Amjad Pervez, Director ANF; Brig Faizul Karim Khan Kurki, ANF; Brig Pervez Khalid, ANF; Brig Muhammad Asif Alvi; Brig Saleem Mahmood; Brig (retd) Muhammad Younas, DG Board of Investment; Brig Riaz Arshad, Additional DG, Cabinet Division; Brig Ahmad Nawaz Zafar, Chief of Staff, PMís Secretariat; Brig Muhammad Anwar Khan, Director Civil Works, Ministry of Defence Production; Brig Ijaz Mahmood, Commandant, Ministry of Industries, Production and Special Initiative; Brig (retd) Saleem Ahmad Moeen, Chairman Nadra; Brig (retd) Shahid Akram Kardar, Member Directing Staff, Pakistan Administrative Staff College; Cdre M Saeed Kureshi, DG Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Air Cdre Zafar Iqbal Haider, OSD, Ministry of Defence Production; Brig Pervez Sarwar Khan, Director, Narcotics Ministry; Brig Ghulam Hafiz, Chief Engineer, Ministry of Information Technology; Brig Sher Afgan Khan Niazi, Member Erra; Brig Muhammad Salik Javed, Member Erra; Brig Shahid Saleem Lone, GM, Karachi Port Trust; Brig Abid Husain Bhatti, OSD, Defence Production Division; Brig Waqar Iqbal Raja, DG Erra; Air Cdre Abbas Petiwala, Chief of Calibration, Defence Ministry; Brig Akhtar Javed Warraich, DG Erra; Brig Muhammad Arshad Abbasi, Director General Wafaqi Mohtasib Secretariat; Brig Javed Iqbal, GM Ministry of Information Technology; Cdre Muhammad Ali, DG Gawadar Port Authority; Brig (retd) M Ashraf Siddiqi, DG Defence Production Division; Brig (retd) Muhammad Anwar Khan, DG, Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Brig (retd) Tariq Hamid Khan, DG National Security Council; Cdre Azhar Hayat, GM Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Brig Nadeem Mahmood, Chief Medical Officer, Ministry of Ports and Shipping; Brig (retd) Javed Iqbal Cheema, DG National Crisis Management Cell, Interior Ministry; Brig (retd) Javed Iqbal Sattar, Directing Staff, NSPP; Brig (retd) Anwar-ul- Haq, Directing Staff NSPP; Brig (retd) Zubair Ahmed Chaudhry, Directing Staff NSPP and others. The above list may include some names of serving officers, already repatriated to GHQ, or those ex-servicemen, who may have left during the recent weeks and months.

Besides the long list of Khakis, a large number of re-employed retired civilian bureaucrats, contractual appointees from private sector and several dozen of those political appointees carrying huge salary package under MP scales have also been inherited by the present regime, which so far remains indifferent to such appointments

[/QUOTE]

Why are you so naive Mr.???? do you the reality of 2011? 99 percent of these seats are occupied by Civilians now, a little research before arguing something would not make you fool in public eyes

 

[nirreich]

Although the article is from 2008, it is the most update report that I found about military appointments in the civil service. Mind you, I do not have the time to go and check each position and who is there now. If you have other data, I would be happy to get the update.

In any case The situation in MOD and MODP did not change and both ministries (like the entire defence industry) are controlled by the army. Retired military generals are following the instructions of the army and not of the ministers or the government on the important matters.

The army controls a large chunk of the economic activity in Pakistan through its own private business (and Fauji Foundation is just one of them). The generals are exploiting their power for making business and feathering their own nest.

 

[nirreich]

nirreich,

Thank you very much for your posts. As a pakistani, I appreciate the time and effort it has taken on your part to share how you see us and what you perceive about us.

As a pakistani, I can tell you that we have a very hard time with people who show us the mirror----because it has never been a part of our culture and cultural heritage to see ourselves in a less than perfect condition---.

We know that we have screwed up for many a years and no end in sight---possibly due to the reason that we pakistanis never knew how to suck upto the u s---like your people----. We have not done too well in the battles that we had with india---but I guess we did pretty good with what we were facing----yes we should have had better results in the 65 and 71 war as well as the 48 war----truthfully----our generals proved to be cowards as well ----but not too different than your general staff officers in the 73 war.

Only if we had col ranked officers like the capability of Col Sharon----we could have done some serious damage----even our air force at staff head quarters was filled up with cowards and traitors and those who were in love with their image---our air force command officer---the air chief marshall in 1971 was a coward and traitor as well and no officer in the staff headquarter had the courage to execute him----or the ACM before the 65 war----.

Your generals were not too far behind ours in 1973-----only if the arab nation were not as deceitful to their own---ie---the other arab nation---you would have had issues as well----and only if they could have marketed themselves a little better than they did to the europeans and americans---yours would be stinking as bad as ours

But the truth is that we can't live like we have been living----pakistan is no more for the pakistanis----if the literate pakistanis on this board think like that---then indeed pakistan is doomed----I mean to say---paks need to get their heads out from where there is no light and look at this world with a different perspective----for how long they can play 'living stupid' ----.

You have much more sensible approach than most of the Pakistanis in PDF about the course of their country. However, your comparisons to Israel and to IDF are not connected to reality, including the comparison between 1971 War and Yom-Kipur War of 1973. This thread is not for this issue but let me just say that Pakistan was forced to surrender with about 100,000 POW, while IDF was forced to accept a cease fire when its forces were only 100km from Cairo and 35km from Damascus.

 

[Xeric]

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Army answerable to people, their representatives in Parliament: Gen Kayani

Army answerable to people, their representatives in Parliament: Gen Kayani

MINGORA (SWAT), July 6 (APP): Chief of the Army Staff Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani on Wednesday said Pakistan Army being a national army, derived its strength from the people of Pakistan and was answerable to the people and their representatives in the Parliament. In his key note address at a seminar on ‘deradicalization’ here, Gen Kayani said,” accordingly, Pakistan Army considers people’s support vital for its operations against terrorists, and believes that only the people of Pakistan can determine the national interest and army’s role in their achievement”. He said that Pakistan’s commitment to war against Al-Qaeda and its affiliates is total and unwavering as it firmly believes in taking stern action against all terrorist groups.

The Pakistan Army is determined to lead the fight on terror in partnership with other law enforcement agencies and in line with the Constitution, he added.

Gen Kayani reiterated that there is no military solution to terrorism since military strategy can only provide an enabling environment. The menace has to be tackled in the domain of national security which warrants a comprehensive response entailing synergy by all elements of national power, he added.

He said following the success of military operations, reconstruction and rehabilitation of infrastructure was immediately launched to restore life.
This rehabilitation effort, in addition to a host of other activities, included an effective de-radicalization programme.

He said that de-radicalization, as a process, is gaining eminence in many parts of the world.

He said,” there is general consensus in societies that the national security interests are better served by de-indoctrinating and re-integrating the radicals back into the society. By radicalism, I refer to a socio-psychological process of incremental commitment to radical trends - may it be political, psychological or religious. Radicalism is, therefore, a risk factor that can transform into violence and push societies into anarchy”.

He said the de-radicalization effort was a result of the demand placed on the Army by the post-operation environment.

“Driven by the detention of thousands of miscreants after the operation, our de-radicalization programme was built around four pillars, including de-radicalization of juveniles, de-radicalization of selected reconcilable detainees, de-radicalization of families of selected detainees and de-radicalization of certain villages in general, from which the bulk of militants had originated,” he added.

He said this programme was initiated with the help of Government of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and certain NGOs, in specially created facilities.
“Our effort to transform the members of public who embraced radical trends, has met considerable success. We are getting back to you with validation and a sense that this is doable,” he added.

Gen Kayani said it would be prudent for all elements of national power and the nation to take a holistic view of national security, within the purview of ‘state as well as human security’ in modern times, no single organ of the state, was configured to mount a wholesome response to the challenges confronting national Security.

He said all instruments of state and society have a role to play.
De-Radicalization is an important contributor towards achieving human security.

Such efforts are to be expressed through attempts to change behaviours, primarily by ‘rehabilitating or de-indoctrination’, he added.
He said the effort, therefore, has a larger context and merits time resources and commitment.

To sustain these undertakings, the state and the society, have to provide enabling ideological, political and socio-economic safeguards integrated into a well thought-out, encompassing national policy with the ultimate goal of achieving counter-radicalization of the society at large in the long term, he added.

He said that Army is following a well thought out campaign plan, which is succeeding and providing space to other organs of State which must expeditiously build on military success to achieve during peace and stability.

“While we have taken the first step here in Swat by initiating de-radicalization programme, it needs support and initiative of the society, intellectuals and policy makers to take the lead and put into effect a
counter-radicalization construct, not only to sustain the de-radicalization effort, but also to assure a free and progressive future for Pakistan,” he added.

Commenting briefly on the situation in Swat, as it existed in 2009, he said Swat was virtually lost to terrorists, writ of the government had ceased to exist while police and other government functionaries had almost stopped functioning.

Public stood terrorized and powerless against the militants. Images of armed militants moving freely raised concerns regarding the Army’s capabilities and resolve to fight militants, he added.

In order to re-establish writ of the government, eliminate miscreants and restore general public’s confidence, he said, the largest Pakistani counter insurgency operation was launched by the Army, involving approximately three divisions i.e. 30,000 troops supported by artillery, combat aviation and air force.

He said the largest ever helicopter borne operation on altitude of 7000 feet was conducted in Peochar, an inaccessible mountainous area, not far from where “we are sitting today”.

Within three months, Swat stood restored. 2.4 million displaced persons were managed, and helped safely return to their homes, he said and added, 75% of the IDPs were looked after by extended families.
Gen. Kayani opined that it was difficult to find a parallel in history considering the magnitude and scale of operation in a short time of three months.

He said that Pakistan Army suffered 985 casualties (including 228 officers and men killed and 757 wounded) with high officers to troops casualty ratio 1: 8 in known history.

Additionally, there were 595 casualties of other LEAs and 981 civilians lost their lives, he added.

“When we were still in the recovery process, Swat was hit by the worst floods in its history. It further compounded the problem,” he said.

Gen. Kayani also paid tribute to the resilience and sacrifices of valiant people of Swat, Pakistan Army Shuhada and their families.
The debt owed to them can only be repaid by achieving and ensuring lasting peace in Swat as well as in Pakistan. De-radicalization is therefore, a step towards that end, he added.

-----

When was the last time this Army's tone was like this?

Now come on, find a bone in this initiative one more time so that your actual worth can be seen by all.

 

[Leviza]

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Army answerable to people, their representatives in Parliament: Gen Kayani

Army answerable to people, their representatives in Parliament: Gen Kayani

MINGORA (SWAT), July 6 (APP): Chief of the Army Staff Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani on Wednesday said Pakistan Army being a national army, derived its strength from the people of Pakistan and was answerable to the people and their representatives in the Parliament. In his key note address at a seminar on ‘deradicalization’ here, Gen Kayani said,” accordingly, Pakistan Army considers people’s support vital for its operations against terrorists, and believes that only the people of Pakistan can determine the national interest and army’s role in their achievement”. He said that Pakistan’s commitment to war against Al-Qaeda and its affiliates is total and unwavering as it firmly believes in taking stern action against all terrorist groups.

The Pakistan Army is determined to lead the fight on terror in partnership with other law enforcement agencies and in line with the Constitution, he added.

Gen Kayani reiterated that there is no military solution to terrorism since military strategy can only provide an enabling environment. The menace has to be tackled in the domain of national security which warrants a comprehensive response entailing synergy by all elements of national power, he added.

He said following the success of military operations, reconstruction and rehabilitation of infrastructure was immediately launched to restore life.
This rehabilitation effort, in addition to a host of other activities, included an effective de-radicalization programme.

He said that de-radicalization, as a process, is gaining eminence in many parts of the world.

He said,” there is general consensus in societies that the national security interests are better served by de-indoctrinating and re-integrating the radicals back into the society. By radicalism, I refer to a socio-psychological process of incremental commitment to radical trends - may it be political, psychological or religious. Radicalism is, therefore, a risk factor that can transform into violence and push societies into anarchy”.

He said the de-radicalization effort was a result of the demand placed on the Army by the post-operation environment.

“Driven by the detention of thousands of miscreants after the operation, our de-radicalization programme was built around four pillars, including de-radicalization of juveniles, de-radicalization of selected reconcilable detainees, de-radicalization of families of selected detainees and de-radicalization of certain villages in general, from which the bulk of militants had originated,” he added.

He said this programme was initiated with the help of Government of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and certain NGOs, in specially created facilities.
“Our effort to transform the members of public who embraced radical trends, has met considerable success. We are getting back to you with validation and a sense that this is doable,” he added.

Gen Kayani said it would be prudent for all elements of national power and the nation to take a holistic view of national security, within the purview of ‘state as well as human security’ in modern times, no single organ of the state, was configured to mount a wholesome response to the challenges confronting national Security.

He said all instruments of state and society have a role to play.
De-Radicalization is an important contributor towards achieving human security.

Such efforts are to be expressed through attempts to change behaviours, primarily by ‘rehabilitating or de-indoctrination’, he added.
He said the effort, therefore, has a larger context and merits time resources and commitment.

To sustain these undertakings, the state and the society, have to provide enabling ideological, political and socio-economic safeguards integrated into a well thought-out, encompassing national policy with the ultimate goal of achieving counter-radicalization of the society at large in the long term, he added.

He said that Army is following a well thought out campaign plan, which is succeeding and providing space to other organs of State which must expeditiously build on military success to achieve during peace and stability.

“While we have taken the first step here in Swat by initiating de-radicalization programme, it needs support and initiative of the society, intellectuals and policy makers to take the lead and put into effect a
counter-radicalization construct, not only to sustain the de-radicalization effort, but also to assure a free and progressive future for Pakistan,” he added.

Commenting briefly on the situation in Swat, as it existed in 2009, he said Swat was virtually lost to terrorists, writ of the government had ceased to exist while police and other government functionaries had almost stopped functioning.

Public stood terrorized and powerless against the militants. Images of armed militants moving freely raised concerns regarding the Army’s capabilities and resolve to fight militants, he added.

In order to re-establish writ of the government, eliminate miscreants and restore general public’s confidence, he said, the largest Pakistani counter insurgency operation was launched by the Army, involving approximately three divisions i.e. 30,000 troops supported by artillery, combat aviation and air force.

He said the largest ever helicopter borne operation on altitude of 7000 feet was conducted in Peochar, an inaccessible mountainous area, not far from where “we are sitting today”.

Within three months, Swat stood restored. 2.4 million displaced persons were managed, and helped safely return to their homes, he said and added, 75% of the IDPs were looked after by extended families.
Gen. Kayani opined that it was difficult to find a parallel in history considering the magnitude and scale of operation in a short time of three months.

He said that Pakistan Army suffered 985 casualties (including 228 officers and men killed and 757 wounded) with high officers to troops casualty ratio 1: 8 in known history.

Additionally, there were 595 casualties of other LEAs and 981 civilians lost their lives, he added.

“When we were still in the recovery process, Swat was hit by the worst floods in its history. It further compounded the problem,” he said.

Gen. Kayani also paid tribute to the resilience and sacrifices of valiant people of Swat, Pakistan Army Shuhada and their families.
The debt owed to them can only be repaid by achieving and ensuring lasting peace in Swat as well as in Pakistan. De-radicalization is therefore, a step towards that end, he added.

-----

When was the last time this Army's tone was like this?

Now come on, find a bone in this initiative one more time so that your actual worth can be seen by all.

He is the best person do it these things and i just hope, we have hard working and some one like him on civil front too, its a fact that after swat operations civil gov was not moving in to restore different services and it took more time and money.

Long live Army and Pakistan

 

[MastanKhan]

You have much more sensible approach than most of the Pakistanis in PDF about the course of their country. However, your comparisons to Israel and to IDF are not connected to reality, including the comparison between 1971 War and Yom-Kipur War of 1973. This thread is not for this issue but let me just say that Pakistan was forced to surrender with about 100,000 POW, while IDF was forced to accept a cease fire when its forces were only 100km from Cairo and 35km from Damascus.

Sir,

Truthfully---there was no reason to fight the war in east pakistan---it was basically a war which pitched one brother against the other---east against west----. There was no objective, there was no ammunition left---so there was nothing more to fight.

Actually---you should say----IDF + U S millitary resources----for you it was the biggest airlift of resources after ww2----for us----we are still waiting for the---what was it ---the 6th or the 7th fleet.

Was that surrender any different than when the south surrendered its hundred thousand plus troops to the north some 200 + years ago in the continental united states.

What would have been the purpose of having a 100 k troops slaughtered by the enemy for a cause that is already lost---it should not have gotten to that point in the first place.

In our country---the army comes into power---because so far it has been the only source which has some sanity in its operation of running the country---and the people want it that way----. Our elected officials have no clue of man management----most of them are mentally illeterates---they are the sons and daughters of land owners----or businessmen and they have the money to spend to run a campaign---.

The comparison between israel and pakistan is very simple----you availed of the oppurtunity---with the backing of the europeans and america you existed for so many years----without them----you were a nobody----you played it right to the end----pakistanis didnot know how to play it after 9/11---whereas your generals had vision of the future---our generals could not see behind their office walls.

 

[MastanKhan]

" Commenting briefly on the situation in Swat, as it existed in 2009, he said Swat was virtually lost to terrorists, writ of the government had ceased to exist while police and other government functionaries had almost stopped functioning ".


Gentlemen,

This statement from the c-in-c of pak millitary is totally sickening to read-----it is absolutely disgusting for a gheneral to say something of this magnitude-----.

Swat area was taken because pak army heirarchy was sleeping at its job---it was a game that pak millitary was playing trying to show the world---oh these terrorists are so strong----where as a matter of fact they were strong because pak millitary wanted them to be shown as strong----.

What were the strategists at pak millitary thinking and what kind of benefits they were trying to get out of this scenario---it is only a fool's guess.

The general talks about the deployment of millitary and the time it had taken-----what don't he talk about the deployment of the terroprists and the risks they took---if he fought at 7000 feet---the terrorists were fighting at 7000 feet as well.

These shenanigans of the pak millitary have been exposed world over-----the rest of the world is not made up of idiots----and not all superstar intelligent people belong to pak military.

Pak millitary needs to be exposed, confronted and taken to task----here is a millitary----who's special forces base got attacked successfully by the terrorirsts---and after the biggest operation against the terorists where they openly stated of revenge ---lal masjid----there was minimal security at the millitary base of the team that participated in the attack----.

Here is the millitary who's headquarters were taken over by the millitants---GHQ fiasco-----and there was no security there even----the excuses that these nincompoops have are just flabbergasting----.

In order to raise the standards of thinking in the pak millitary---the officers need to be indoctrinated with a different ideology.

This mentality of everybody is against us, everybody is planning against us, fear of sanctions etc etc must be changed to a more forthright and upto date mentality----.

This mindset of the pakistanis must be changed from----we can wave dollars and we can buy anything---to a mindset of cultivating friendships----where friends help in time of nedd----some help more than the others---some help less----just like in real life----.


What the pak millitary is doing is to hide behind the sacrifices of its soldiers and officers who died in the line of duty-----and indeed there are thousands who laid down their lives----and for the death of these soldiers----the generals of the pak millitary need to be charged with murder----murder 1 for the death of these soldiers.

They failed to take charge of the situation right from day 1----they let the terrorists settle down and establish base----the generals could not make a distinction between friend and foe in time----in any battle---time is of the ultimate essence----over here there was no clue of what that meant----.

To you young pakistanis----if you are worried about what is happening in pakistan----then you need to be scared of what is yet to come if you don't take charge of things today---because your millitary heirarchy has its head in deep dark----THE QUIET MAN is not the need of the hour----you need an upfront---brash---loud mouth leader who can lead the millitary from the front----generals like KIYANI can only get the top positions by being the yes men but not for their abailities but for their obedience-----.

Pakistan needs and ars-se-hole to lead the millitary---somebody with a DIRECT kind of personality on the MANAGEMENT BY STRENGTHS scale---a fire breathing dragon.


They can't keep sending the troops to be the canon fodder for the terrorist guns---the soldiers and junior officers need proper guidance----they need to be given a goal, a target to achieve and no slow down till the end goals are met---ie----99% of containment has been reached---.