Enough is enough

[mikkix]

I know the views i expressed are not mainstream by any stretch of imagination.

But i would however ask, if you do not want to judge yourself then why let others(readers) judge?

Dude you misunderstood me. That's what i wanted to hear from you regarding mainstream or orthodox views. I respect your unorthodox views always. Come on bro when i said i am judging anyone or others judging anyone or me but to understand the difference. Leave it just chill.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

@Indus Pakistan @OsmanAli98 @Desert Fox @W.11 @Itachi @masterchief_mirza @SABRE @PAKISTANFOREVER @Syed Hammad Ahmed @SIPRA @Sine Nomine @Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

Noble friend, excellent words. I personally believe in meritocracy. Whatever your genetics, if you understand the message of the Quaid, you are Pakistani. Pakistan is a true melting pot of various peoples, a unique fusion of anthropologies. Pakistan-ness per se hasn't really been elaborated on and defined until the era of the Quaid (though it probably existed in an unharnessed form for much longer, perhaps since time immemorial), so I personally would temper your thoughts slightly with this reality. What I am trying to suggest is that there is no inherent harm by definition in accepting that our identity has been moulded from both "native" - whatever that means - and "non-native" elemental constituents. Arabs, Turks, Persians have influenced us. This is not a cause for revolt or rejection. Likewise, those who reject our "Indian" influences are equally hamstrung.

I must add at this point though that I know little of the specific genetic science and social history other than what learned others have mentioned on pdf.

My conclusion is that I would be proud of every single contribution throughout ancient and not so ancient history that brought us to the final summation of the Quaid's vision. This is perhaps substantively in agreement with your thoughts but perhaps subtly different in terms of finally reconciling the various contributions to our national psyche.

I certainly agree that there should be zero cause for inherent "superiority" or "inferiority" of any of the contributory elements. Pakistan thusly has a unique position in Asiatic anthropology, which in theory should remain at odds with any attempt to impose a caste system of any sort.

The theory of Pakistan should abrogate caste theory by its very nature. As you rightly pointed out though, the reality is sadly different.

 

[mikkix]

If you look up to sand people, that's your prerogative but don't enforce it upon us.

And btw, they didn't bring Islam here, they brought the barbarity that they carried from the backwaters of Arabia. People like Fariduddin Ganjshakar, Ahmad Sirhindi, Abu Raja As Sindhi, Mian Muhammad Bakhsh (all of which were native to the Indus) made Islam popular.



Imagine thinking that Hinduism (specifically, the sects that venerate cows) is the only religion our ancestors followed. Jathera, Sikhism, Buddhism Zoroastrianism, even Manichaeism were all present in the Indus.



By "looking to Arabs" (your words not mine), you're maintaining it.



Jinnah was not Bengali. Iqbal was not Bengali. Rehmat Ali was not Bengali.

Great names. But below are the names that also contributed to the cause of pakistan. Fazlul haque. Khawaja nizamuddin. Hussain shaheed suharwardy were the prominent bengali leaders.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Nisbat is the Kalima to the Prophet.

Appropriately to the title of the thread. It is enough!!


That is rather an extreme disposition. Maryam's gender is not the miracle but the virgin birth is the miracle.

I neither have to accept or deny it. It is not an article of faith of Islam.

This is kinny counter productive. Quran is even above the articles of faith. Deal with it my friend.

 

[Hamza913]

Great names. But below are the names that also contributed to the cause of pakistan. Fazlul haque. Khawaja nizamuddin. Hussain shaheed suharwardy were the prominent bengali leaders.

People over-hype their importance.

 

[El Sidd]

Dude you misunderstood me. That's what i wanted to hear from you regarding mainstream or orthodox views. I respect your unorthodox views always. Come on bro when i said i am judging anyone or others judging anyone or me but to understand the difference. Leave it just chill.

what happened to only God can judge me? kidding dude all good

This is kinny counter productive. Quran is even above the articles of faith. Deal with it my friend.

deal with what Syed Brahmin Patwari?

 

[crankthatskunk]

what happened to only God can judge me? kidding dude all good
deal with what Syed Brahmin Patwari?

Well, wrong on all counts my friend. I am a proud "Pushtoon" descend, Never believed on supposed "Syed" superiority, that's why I say this the same shit coming from "Hindutva" in Sub-Continent. My Children are half Arabs.
So I know a thing or two how the real "Quesh" deals with the issue.
As much as the authentic Arab lineage is concerned, two prominent families are recognised as closely related to Prophet SAW. King of Jordan and King of Morocco. I think Ex King of Iraq was also a "Hashmi". But like I previously wrote, mathematically the numbers are impossible.
Most people in India calling themselves "Syed" are not right. That out of the way.

I was answering to you claiming that virgin birth , you neither accepted or denied it , because it is not an article of faith. I said Quran is above it, deal with it.

3:45 [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].

3:46 He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous."

3:47 She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.

I as a Muslim believe in virgin birth. You should deal with it , whichever way you think you want to.
For my Allah's Decree "Kun" is enough for me.

 

[Kambojaric]

Nice to see this. I know Pakistanis will gradually embrace their past and become proud of their ancestors and their own identity. Decades if not centuries of insecurities fed by colonial brainwashing and unions with territories far away from our country has led to our post colonial leaders feeding imaginary identities i.e. all Ummah is our country. The behaviour of countries like Iran and Saudi has however resulted in a rude awakening for our people.

The closest allies we have are communist China and secular Turkey. Clearly the identity politics played by our previous rulers does not match the realities of our world. This is not to say that Pakistan should adopt either forms of government (people of Pakistan will ultimately decide that) but it does mean there is clearly something wrong with our naivete viz a viz the Muslim world as we see them in one way and they see us in another.

I believed that it would be the next generation or the generation after that, that would embrace the process of accepting our own identity but clearly it has already begun and that is simply great!

 

[k s ahmed]

Sand people hahahahahaha. Here comes deep dark ignorance.
Those sand people weremore advanced in technology, science , philosophy than us "Indus people ".
I didn't say look UP. I meant to say that you look back and maintain a relationship with them
Sikhism is much younger than hinduism. you understand what I mean if you know the traditions those religions have such as burning a widow , wife of one is wife of all brothers. Etc.

If you are a Hindu ( or any non Muslim) , you can surely associate yourself with a b c z X y z
But if you are a Muslim , it's time to recalibrate your compass by learning more
In the end , it's your life

If you look up to sand people, that's your prerogative but don't enforce it upon us.

And btw, they didn't bring Islam here, they brought the barbarity that they carried from the backwaters of Arabia. People like Fariduddin Ganjshakar, Ahmad Sirhindi, Abu Raja As Sindhi, Mian Muhammad Bakhsh (all of which were native to the Indus) made Islam popular.



Imagine thinking that Hinduism (specifically, the sects that venerate cows) is the only religion our ancestors followed. Jathera, Sikhism, Buddhism Zoroastrianism, even Manichaeism were all present in the Indus.



By "looking to Arabs" (your words not mine), you're maintaining it.



Jinnah was not Bengali. Iqbal was not Bengali. Rehmat Ali was not Bengali.

 

[W.11]

Dont know why some people need to put down arabs in order to glorrify their pre islamic history, or some need to put down indians to glorify post islamic history, the history needs to be appreciated as it is, the goras/colonists put down their subjects/indians and the muslims for their self gratification.

regards

 

[Indus Pakistan]

One if the best threads on PDF. @Taimur Khurram great stuff. Keep it rolling/ Like @Kambojaric says it might take generation or two but a process has began. And that is fantastic. All regions of Pakistan need to own, connect, celebrate and shout their histories from the roof tops. Together making a unique composite cacophony called 'Pakistan'.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

One if the best threads on PDF. @Taimur Khurram great stuff. Keep it rolling/ Like @Kambojaric says it might take generation or two but a process has began. And that is fantastic. All regions of Pakistan need to own, connect, celebrate and shout their histories from the roof tops. Together making a unique composite cacophony called 'Pakistan'.

POTM!..........

 

[313ghazi]

I think this discussion is a significant symbol of what is wrong with our country. Fous on ancient history and BS like identity.

Another great distraction is the discussion of our political history "what did Jinnah want?".

Maybe we could spend that energy on literacy, economic development or some other basic need of our nation.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The UK is a good analogy for what we are discussing here. We are Brexiteers. We don't want a vague, distant drowning idea of Europe snuffing our native histories and identities. The four threads that weave the fabric called UK. The Scots, the Irish, the Welsh and English. Each with their proud traditions and lands.

In context of Pakistan identity should be generic to it's people. Only a organic, secure identity that is rooted in it's people will make for a strong foundation for nation. And such a identity must celebrate each of the provinces/units that make Pakistan. We don't have to say we aree not Arab, Iranian, Indian, Turkish. Simply celebrate each region of Pakistan and the composite is unique to the Indus.

Who are we?

 

[B.K.N]

Maybe we could spend that energy on literacy, economic development or some other basic need of our nation.

Only those who are reading and replying at this thread are wasting time on this discussion. No one in real life cares about these useless topics