Enough is bloody enough :: some hard questions to our military Estabilishment

[anathema]

Bill - i wont comment on much of your post - however please allow me to make a few points.

what an ideotic out bust of ignorence

should esteblishman advertise how many attacks they prevented and how many master minds they arrested?
come on use ur mind

Yes -- it should be advertised , kingpins identified , reports published and worse if they alive drag them to court to face the wrath of public. Let people see the face of the monster they are dealing, let people hear the ideologies behind it and let people know what is driving them. You may ask - What will this do ? People will ask some real tough questions , they will learn more about the cancer amidst them and likewise - if they see that their brother or son or sister is turning into a fanatical they will try to stop it - now that they know what is harmful and what is not !

Likewise - the criminals will know they are being watched , tracked and in many cases it would be deterence in carrying out the operation ! Countries all around the world use it -- with USA being most transparent.

I am sorry the military you abuse is the only power in pakistan which is fighting terrorists at one side and on other rescueing people from floods.
its only forces who have done what govt should have done.

What do you think government should do ? Are you so navie that you think that all the politicians sitting in the parliament will come and will clear the mud and distribute food , water , etc ? No government will order Army/paramilitary to do it -- and they respond. It is always Army who does things since they have more experience , have more equipment and simply more boots on the ground.
Bad mouthing government is good once in a while -- but when it becomes often you begin to get thoughts that Army rule should come back -- a strict NO NO in IMO.

 

[Icarus]

I believe I am the right man to answer your questions. Firstly, your claim that no suicide bomb maker has been arrested is baseless. HUNDREDS of trainers, handler and makers have been arrested and are ******* in jail. Their trials are under way in Counter Terrorism courts but that is out of our jurisdiction and therefore I cannot comment on that.
Secondly, Siffwat Ghayyur's death is truly sad and a blow to the police's operating capacity but he was a brave officer and knew he was at risk but still refused to keep a large escort or to be given protocol i.e blocking roads on his route. The suicide bomber was not "Waiting outside the FC office" as you claim rather, he was strategically placed on his route to intercept him near a busy road junction.
The suicide bomber is a dangerous and effective weapon BECAUSE of the fact that it is indistinguishable from the general public. You cannot shoot every wild-eyed teenager you see standing at a junction, only once in a 1000 shots will you get a suicide bomber.........
As for the question as to how he got in, well it's not compulsory for every car to be checked and every man to be frisked. That would take too long and is therefore a strategy that is not practical.
If you have anymore questions or need explanation on any of my stated points, I will be happy to answer.

 

[Musafar]

realy ? and you think its not dissolving now because of our over sensitive protector of muslim world syndrome ? or is it just in your mind , why dont you go out and see whats happening in pakistan at the moment and ask the people who have lost there kids and loved ones to this horror and ask them for suggestions ? after that mine one will look like fairy cakes offering i bet

Despite you trying to tug at the heart strings, that isn't going to make me tolerate your Draconian visions. We've tried the scorched earth approach before, it bit us in the backside.

I suggest you go back to the drawing board.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

I have been following this thread with interest and to me it seems that all of us are missing the point here.

IMHO the point that needs to be discussed is the role of agencies (not necassarily ARMY) in defining our strategic policy and its implementation. The Jihadi/Taliban, the Saudi influence, Kashmir Insurgency, strategic depth in Afghanistan etc. are a direct result of our policy and its implementation actions and its failures.

We can not resolve the current issue with sacraficing the lives of brave policemen and soldiers for ever. The monster has to have its head taken off completely. This can not be done without a through review of our strategic aims and its operational strategy and the role of agencies in "Going it alone" on some of the strategic goals.

 

[arslan_treen]

Despite you trying to tug at the heart strings, that isn't going to make me tolerate your Draconian visions. We've tried the scorched earth approach before, it bit us in the backside.

I suggest you go back to the drawing board.

every one has there own opinion so do you but you will rather push it on others ... and enjoy seeing Pakistan bleed and keep on the normal easy rants ... we want justice , oh we want educations .. oh we want this and that ... but why dont you try to understand that why we are lacking these basics ?? could it be because of a culture that we are following for last 35 years and have brought us nothing but pain misery and destruction of our values , culture and religion >> na let listen to people like you lets give it another 35 years and see where it leads us to ??
i do not need to go any where , trolling then given a proper response or giving a suggestion at least is much easier as proved by your post , but it still wont change what millions are thinking in Pakistan right now , we need to go to our basics , go to the rules formed by the founders of Pakistan , not by the Mullahs and nationalistic who were opposed of its creation in the first place , but off course trolling is much easier then giving a vision or standing up for what you believe or what is taken away from you , why dont you read some news papers , go to Pakistani blogs search this forum and see what the educated Pakistanis want !! and then comment ... rather then enjoying the walks on comfy London streets and getting brainwashed by drugged up Arab complexed Mujahid wanabes .

 

[unforgotton_man]

this is shameful, are u dare to say enough is enough on drone attacks.
i am just wondering how many innocent people are killed by those flying death squads in our tribal belt and yet these internet hero's never wrote about it.

 

[Musafar]

every one has there own opinion so do you but you will rather push it on others ...

I haven't "pushed" anything - I was merely critiquing your stalin-esque idea of how to cure Pakistan of its ills.

Please don't lie.

and enjoy seeing Pakistan bleed and keep on the normal easy rants

Eh?

*Raises a quizzical eyebrow*

... we want justice , oh we want educations .. oh we want this and that ... but why dont you try to understand that why we are lacking these basics ?? could it be because of a culture that we are following for last 35 years and have brought us nothing but pain misery and destruction of our values , culture and religion >> na let listen to people like you lets give it another 35 years and see where it leads us to ??

I'm still failing to see you make an actual point.

i do not need to go any where ,

Yes you do. You're advocating a policy which has failed. I suggest you re-consider, reassess and re-evaluate your assertions.

then given a proper response or giving a suggestion at least is much easier as proved by your post , but it still wont change what millions are thinking in Pakistan right now...

And you speak for them do you...since when were you given this mandate?

we need to go to our basics , go to the rules formed by the founders of Pakistan , not by the Mullahs and nationalistic who were opposed of its creation in the first place , but off course trolling is much easier then giving a vision or standing up for what you believe or what is taken away from you

Oh, so I'm trolling? Is that your way of silencing anyone who happens to disagree with your Draconian visions?

why dont you read some news papers , go to Pakistani blogs search this forum and see what the educated Pakistanis want !! and then comment ... rather then enjoying the walks on comfy London streets and getting brainwashed by drugged up Arab complexed Mujahid wanabes .

Haha, Classic.

How ironic, since you're in the UK also. Well done on the insult also. Bravo!

 

[arslan_treen]

in all your replies to my post .. i still have to see a valid argument or at least a suggestion ? or you just happy to contradict what is said ?

 

[arslan_treen]

why dont you enlighten us that when did we implemented the policy that i stated ?
when have religious extremism and nationalistic racism being banned in Pakistan ? and why i shouldn't be ?
when have madrassa being controlled and why not ?
when have religious parties came under scrutiny and why not ?
when have we not bent over to Arabs and other hated filled preachers ?
please care to elaborate and any thing which i said has ever been implemented in Pakistan ?
oh and please for God sake please for once give a straight answer i know you have been spending a lot of times on net blogs and chat room , but i dont understand that language so a simple answer would be appreciated.