Emerging Taiwanese identity

[Lux de Veritas]

A new race by the name "Taiwanese" may be emerging to the chagrin of China. Having a 98% Han Chinese demographics only

1. 74.1 percent self identified as Zhonghua minzu (中華民族, Chinese ethnic group),
2. 72.3 percent chose “Asians”
3. 69.8 percent huaren (華人, ethnic Chinese).

Meanwhile 96.5 percent of respondents identified themselves as Taiwanese. Opposition to “eventual unification” remained strong, with 60.9 percent of respondents saying they do not support unification with China, about three times the percentage of those who favored it at 20.5 percent.

Taiwanese identity stays strong: poll - Taipei Times

The number of people who identify themselves as Taiwanese showed a marginal increase compared with a survey conducted four years ago, while the number of those who identify themselves as being Chinese continues to drop, the Taiwan Indicators Survey Research (TISR) said yesterday.

In a tracking poll about identity, wherein respondents were allowed to make multiple choices, 96.5 percent of respondents identified themselves as Taiwanese, an increase of 0.6 percent from a similar poll conducted in September 2008, the survey showed.

In answer to the same question, 85.3 percent of respondents also identified themselves as “citizens of the Republic of China,” 74.1 percent checked Zhonghua minzu (中華民族, Chinese ethnic group), 72.3 percent chose “Asians” and 69.8 percent huaren (華人, ethnic Chinese).

Meanwhile, the percentage of those who identified themselves as zhongguo ren (中國人, Chinese) dropped to 43.5 percent from 46.6 percent in the 2008 poll, and only 7.5 percent said they were “citizens of the People’s Republic of China [PRC],” down 1.9 percent.

TISR general manager Tai Li-an (戴立安) said that 11 percent of respondents in the 20-to-39 age group said they were PRC citizens.

Asked about future relations between Taiwan and China, 37.4 percent viewed the two as “trade partners,” down 6.7 percent from a similar poll in March 2010, the survey showed.

About one in five, or 19.9 percent, viewed the two sides as “friends,” 8.2 percent as “relatives,” 8.1 percent as “family members,” 4.3 percent as “strangers” and 4.2 percent as “enemies.”

Opposition to “eventual unification” remained strong, with 60.9 percent of respondents saying they do not support unification with China, about three times the percentage of those who favored it at 20.5 percent.

More than half — 52.3 percent — of respondents said Taiwan should eventually become a fully fledged independent and new nation, while 27.5 percent did not support the idea.

Pan-blue supporters appeared to be divided on the issue, with 44.4 percent supportive of Taiwanese independence against 43.3 percent who oppose it.

Public opinion remained divided over President Ma Ying-jeou’s (馬英九) position on the nation’s future, with 37.5 percent saying that Ma was pro-unification and 33.9 percent saying that Ma favored the “status quo,” which were about the same as the ratios in previous surveys. Only 9.7 percent of respondents said Ma was pro-independence.

The survey, conducted on Thursday and Friday last week, collected 1,002 valid samples and had a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points.

 

[Kolaps]

That kind of survey is still a kind of confusion.

I call it as a grey area.

Are you Taiwanese, Chinese or Communist?


The same question I want to ask to mainlander here,

Are you a Chinese or Communist? choose one!

 

[Lux de Veritas]

There is some thing very good in such scenario of Taiwan out of China's control and Taiwanese asserting their identity.

The DPP 民进党 despite all their weaknesses has contributed a lot in preservation Min Nan language. In China, Min Nan languages are dying.

Mandarin hegemony policy is a bully. Right now, only Cantonese is able to withstand the mandarin jingoism. Even Shanghai-nese which is an extremely rich and expressive is seeing a fast decline. Not that Shanghai-nese do not want to preserve their language, but Shanghai-nese decline will be inevitable if it is not used in business and science.

When China get rid of all their Min nan lect, then China and Taiwan will be "different language" speaker not unlike China and Vietnam. It would increase the centrifugal force of Taiwan.

Personally I know Cantonese and I think it is more expressive and beautiful than Mandarin. Cantonese is quite safe from extinction because of an independent HK.

My mother tongue is Min Nan/Taiwanese. It should be an expressive language but it is now under-developed. Taiwan need to use it on day to day basis, in science, politics and businesses.

The future of Min Nan language will depend on Taiwan.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

A military unification is necessary, i am fully supporting the military unification.

There is some thing very good in such scenario of Taiwan out of China's control and Taiwanese asserting their identity.

The DPP 民进党 despite all their weaknesses has contributed a lot in preservation Min Nan language. In China, Min Nan languages are dying.

Mandarin hegemony policy is a bully. Right now, only Cantonese is able to withstand the mandarin jingoism. Even Shanghai-nese which is an extremely rich and expressive is seeing a fast decline. Not that Shanghai-nese do not want to preserve their language, but Shanghai-nese decline will be inevitable if it is not used in business and science.

When China get rid of all their Min nan lect, then China and Taiwan will be "different language" speaker not unlike China and Vietnam. It would increase the centrifugal force of Taiwan.

Personally I know Cantonese and I think it is more expressive and beautiful than Mandarin. Cantonese is quite safe from extinction because of an independent HK.

My mother tongue is Min Nan/Taiwanese. It should be an expressive language but it is now under-developed. Taiwan need to use it on day to day basis, in science, politics and businesses.

The future of Min Nan language will depend on Taiwan.

You are a Malay from ASEAN. Remember, your race is Southeast Asian, not East Asian.

Because you are not East Asian, then don't drag other South Chinese along with you, because we want to be East Asians, nothing to do with you people.

That kind of survey is still a kind of confusion.

I call it as a grey area.

Are you Taiwanese, Chinese or Communist?


The same question I want to ask to mainlander here,

Are you a Chinese or Communist? choose one!

I am Chinese, but i am fully supporting CPC to fck up you taibazi.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

A military unification is necessary, i am fully supporting the military unification.



You are a Malay from ASEAN. Remember, your race is Southeast Asian, not East Asian.

Because you are not East Asian, then don't drag other South Chinese along with you, because we want to be East Asians, nothing to do with you people.



I am Chinese, but i am fully supporting CPC to fck up you taibazi.

能打毛泽东早就打了。大陆就是脑残吹牛。You say I am Malay. Yes I am, so are all Taiwanese aboriginals. BTW Taiwanese have a lot of Malay blood and its Malay land.

Even if I am Malay, I can understand 100% what Taiwanese are speaking, you can understand 0%. That is the reason why mainland Chinese are call invaders. 外来政权。

李登輝：中國人只會用嘴巴努力而已

The good thing about Taiwan is the president and people are equal. Look at how Lee Teng Hui humble down himself facing hostile mainland Chinese students. Try do that to Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao.

In PRC, the communists, elites and rich people keep brainwashing the people saying that people deserve to be shitt on, and people are stupid, so cannot have democracy...etc.

 

[DarkElf]

There is some thing very good in such scenario of Taiwan out of China's control and Taiwanese asserting their identity.

The DPP 民进党 despite all their weaknesses has contributed a lot in preservation Min Nan language. In China, Min Nan languages are dying.

I doubt Min Nan language can hold for long against mandarin in Taiwan. When i travel there last year, It's rare to heard anyone speaking Min Nan language in Taipei, quite different compare to how pervasive Cantonese language in HK/Guangdong.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

I doubt Min Nan language can hold for long against mandarin in Taiwan. When i travel there last year, It's rare to heard anyone speaking Min Nan language in Taipei, quite different compare to how pervasive Cantonese language in HK/Guangdong.

I am quite worried about Min Nan as well. But unlike all other Sinitic lects other than Mandarin and Cantonese, Min Nan still stand a chance. The Taiwanese politicians use Min Nan to connect to people whenever there are elections. There are lots of Min Nan channels.

Below President Ma Yingjiu admit he is "Taiwanese" in Min Nan, with Lee Teng Hui.

The Min Nan language is expressive in a particular way not found in Cantonese and Mandarin. The Cantonese is quite a sarcastic language. The Mandarin is quite cold. The Min Nan in comparison is a warm language.

A few sentence of Min Nan can free you from inhibitions with strangers. It convey ideas in a way not possible in Cantonese and Mandarin.

If Taiwan go independent, be assured Min Nan will be enshrine to create separate race from Chinese, just like what Vietnam did. It is extremely easy to create a separate race by rallying behind Min Nan as PRC Chinese other than Min Nan people cannot understand a single word we are speaking.

 

[EastSea]

Taishanese, Cantonese, Teochew, Hakka , Hoklo, Wu, Xiang - Asia Finest Discussion Forum

 

[cnleio]

The Chinese come from mainland of China, others just r ethnic Chinese.
Even most of TaiWanese's grandpa family also come from FuJian province of mainland, or where u from ?

 

[Lux de Veritas]

I am a 3rd generation Singaporean and my grandpa was from Quanzhou 泉州, Fujian. My mother tongue is under onslaught of Mandarin.

While Cantonese is holding off quite well now, there is a worrying trend that HK is losing its cultural appeal since 21 century. As China are gaining wealth, eventually mainland may export culture and that will accelerate the fall of Cantonese.

Min Nan | Beyond Highbrow - Robert Lindsay

Cantonese is even harder to learn than Mandarin. Cantonese has nine tones to Mandarin’s four, and in addition, they continue to use a lot of the older traditional Chinese characters that were superseded when China moved to a simplified script in 1949. Furthermore, since non-Mandarin characters are not standardized, Cantonese cannot be written down as it is spoken.

In addition, Cantonese has verbal aspect, possibly up to 20 different varieties. Modal particles are difficult in Cantonese. Clusters of up to the 3 sentence final particles are very common. 我食咗飯 and 我食咗飯架啦喎 are both grammatical for I have had a meal, but the particles add the meaning of I have already had a meal or answering a question or even to imply I have had a meal, so I don’t need to eat anymore.

Cantonese gets a 5 rating, hardest of all.

Min Nan is also said to be harder to learn than Mandarin, as it has a more complex tone system, with five tones on three different levels. Even many Taiwanese natives don’t seem to get it right these days, as it is falling out of favor and many fewer children are being raised speaking it than before.

Min Nan gets a 5 rating, hardest of all.

A recent 15 year survey out of Fudan University utilizing both the departments of Linguistics and Anthropology looked at 579 different languages in order to try to find the most complicated language in the world. The result was that a Wu language dialect (or perhaps a separate language) in the Fengxian district of Shanghai (Fengxian Wu) was the most complex language of all, with 20 separate vowels. The nearest competitor was Norwegian with 16 vowels.

Fengxian Wu gets a 5 rating, hardest of all.

Classical Chinese is still read by many Chinese people and Chinese language learners. Unless you have a very good grasp on modern Chinese, classical Chinese will be completely wasted on you. Classical Chinese is much harder to read than reading modern Chinese.

Classical Chinese covers an era extending over 3,000 years, and to attain a reading fluency in this language, you need to be familiar with all of the characters used during this period along with all of the literature of the period so you can understand all the allusions. Even with a knowledge of Classical Chinese, you need to read it in context. If you are good at Classical Chinese and someone throws you a random section of it, it will take you a good amount of time to figure it out unless you know context.

The language is much more to the point than Modern Chinese, but this is not as good as it sounds. This simplicity leaves a room for ambiguity and context plays an important role. A joke about some obscure historical or literary anecdote will be lost you unless you know what it refers to. For reading modern Chinese, you will need at least 5,000 characters, but even then, you will still need a dictionary. With Classical Chinese, there are no lower limits on the number of characters you need to know. The sky is the limit.

Classical Chinese gets a 5 rating, hardest of all.

 

[Fsjal]

Personally I know Cantonese and I think it is more expressive and beautiful than Mandarin.

In my opinion, I prefer Mandarin, or Putonghua.

It sounds better than Cantonese. BTW, Taiwanese speaks Mandarin.

 

[nalan]

There is some thing very good in such scenario of Taiwan out of China's control and Taiwanese asserting their identity.

The DPP 民进党 despite all their weaknesses has contributed a lot in preservation Min Nan language. In China, Min Nan languages are dying.

Mandarin hegemony policy is a bully. Right now, only Cantonese is able to withstand the mandarin jingoism. Even Shanghai-nese which is an extremely rich and expressive is seeing a fast decline. Not that Shanghai-nese do not want to preserve their language, but Shanghai-nese decline will be inevitable if it is not used in business and science.

When China get rid of all their Min nan lect, then China and Taiwan will be "different language" speaker not unlike China and Vietnam. It would increase the centrifugal force of Taiwan.

Personally I know Cantonese and I think it is more expressive and beautiful than Mandarin. Cantonese is quite safe from extinction because of an independent HK.

My mother tongue is Min Nan/Taiwanese. It should be an expressive language but it is now under-developed. Taiwan need to use it on day to day basis, in science, politics and businesses.

The future of Min Nan language will depend on Taiwan.

for me,unlike Mandarin,Cantonese is spineless.
good luck for your mother tongue.it is a matter of time Taiwan come back. Taiwan can not be on behalf of the Chinese civilization and stop her.

The good thing about Taiwan is the president and people are equal. Look at how Lee Teng Hui humble down himself facing hostile mainland Chinese students. Try do that to Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao.

both are chinese

In PRC, the communists, elites and rich people keep brainwashing the people saying that people deserve to be shitt on, and people are stupid, so cannot have democracy...etc.

I heard Singaporeans are high IQ,but...

.

Below President Ma Yingjiu admit he is "Taiwanese" in Min Nan, with Lee Teng Hui.

Obama: yes,we can

 

[nalan]

I am a 3rd generation Singaporean and my grandpa was from Quanzhou 泉州, Fujian. My mother tongue is under onslaught of Mandarin.

While Cantonese is holding off quite well now, there is a worrying trend that HK is losing its cultural appeal since 21 century. As China are gaining wealth, eventually mainland may export culture and that will accelerate the fall of Cantonese.

Min Nan | Beyond Highbrow - Robert Lindsay

Cantonese is even harder to learn than Mandarin. Cantonese has nine tones to Mandarin’s four, and in addition, they continue to use a lot of the older traditional Chinese characters that were superseded when China moved to a simplified script in 1949. Furthermore, since non-Mandarin characters are not standardized, Cantonese cannot be written down as it is spoken.

In addition, Cantonese has verbal aspect, possibly up to 20 different varieties. Modal particles are difficult in Cantonese. Clusters of up to the 3 sentence final particles are very common. 我食咗飯 and 我食咗飯架啦喎 are both grammatical for I have had a meal, but the particles add the meaning of I have already had a meal or answering a question or even to imply I have had a meal, so I don’t need to eat anymore.

Cantonese gets a 5 rating, hardest of all.

Min Nan is also said to be harder to learn than Mandarin, as it has a more complex tone system, with five tones on three different levels. Even many Taiwanese natives don’t seem to get it right these days, as it is falling out of favor and many fewer children are being raised speaking it than before.

Min Nan gets a 5 rating, hardest of all.

A recent 15 year survey out of Fudan University utilizing both the departments of Linguistics and Anthropology looked at 579 different languages in order to try to find the most complicated language in the world. The result was that a Wu language dialect (or perhaps a separate language) in the Fengxian district of Shanghai (Fengxian Wu) was the most complex language of all, with 20 separate vowels. The nearest competitor was Norwegian with 16 vowels.

Fengxian Wu gets a 5 rating, hardest of all.

Classical Chinese is still read by many Chinese people and Chinese language learners. Unless you have a very good grasp on modern Chinese, classical Chinese will be completely wasted on you. Classical Chinese is much harder to read than reading modern Chinese.

Classical Chinese covers an era extending over 3,000 years, and to attain a reading fluency in this language, you need to be familiar with all of the characters used during this period along with all of the literature of the period so you can understand all the allusions. Even with a knowledge of Classical Chinese, you need to read it in context. If you are good at Classical Chinese and someone throws you a random section of it, it will take you a good amount of time to figure it out unless you know context.

The language is much more to the point than Modern Chinese, but this is not as good as it sounds. This simplicity leaves a room for ambiguity and context plays an important role. A joke about some obscure historical or literary anecdote will be lost you unless you know what it refers to. For reading modern Chinese, you will need at least 5,000 characters, but even then, you will still need a dictionary. With Classical Chinese, there are no lower limits on the number of characters you need to know. The sky is the limit.

Classical Chinese gets a 5 rating, hardest of all.

the development of language:simplicity easy.yes,Cantonese has nine tones,but the ability to express is not much more than Mandarin.it is waste.Efficiency is wealth.no one could stop it.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

In my opinion, I prefer Mandarin, or Putonghua.

It sounds better than Cantonese. BTW, Taiwanese speaks Mandarin.

I agree.

I am a native Cantonese speaker, but I prefer the "sound" of Standard Mandarin. It just sounds cleaner and more refined to me.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Putonghua is the best tool to help our unification.

This Malay from Singapore wants to destroy it, thus destroying our unification.

If any Chinese who doesn't want to learn Putonghua, then stop using Putonghua as your writing!!!

As a native Shanghainese speaker, even i have a lot of problem to read many sentence writing in Shanghainese, it sounds totally alien to me.

Imagine China's writing system without Putonghua.

BTW, this Malay is our common enemy, he wants to destroy China's unification and bring South China together with Vietnam.