elhi gears to join China-Russia club - America sniffs Nato ‘counterweight’

[Jai_Hind]

Delhi, Aug. 5: India is preparing to join the influential Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) strategic grouping, currently led by China and Russia, just days ahead of the Prime Minister’s September visit to the US where his bonhomie with Moscow has already triggered unease.

The SCO has informed New Delhi that it plans to approve documents making India a full member at a September 11-12 summit in Dushanbe, Tajikistan, senior officials have told The Telegraph.

Iran, Pakistan and Mongolia will join India as new members of the grouping, now made up of Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.

America views the SCO as a potential post-Cold War counter-balance to Nato, and Beijing and Moscow have accused Washington of trying to split the grouping. Unlike Nato, the SCO has so far not engaged in military action beyond joint exercises.

India and the three other nations on the cusp of joining are currently observer states at the SCO, and China had till now been ambivalent about offering full membership to India despite Russian backing for New Delhi.

However, keen not to alienate the new Indian Prime Minister, China joined the other members to back the expansion move at a meeting of the grouping’s foreign ministers on July 31.

Indian foreign minister Sushma Swaraj is expected to travel to Dushanbe for the September meeting where India’s membership will likely receive a formal stamp of approval.

If the new members’ formal induction is completed at Dushanbe, Modi may travel in December to Astana, Kazakhstan, where the heads of government of all the SCO’s member states will meet, officials said.

“China supports the SCO summit in Dushanbe to complete the legal preparation of the expansion of the SCO members, thus to open up new ways to absorb new members,” a senior Chinese diplomat quoted his country’s foreign minister, Wang Yi, as telling the July 31 meeting.

India has been keen to join the SCO since it first became an observer in 2005. However, tensions within the grouping’s members on the countries to be allowed entry under any expansion had so far prevented the absorption of any new full member.

Over the past two years, as Russia and the US have returned to near-Cold War brinkmanship, both have turned to India as a critical nation whose support could tilt the balance of opinion among the developing countries, which make up most of the world.

The stalemate at the SCO — with China cautious about India’s entry, Russia uncertain about Pakistan’s, and all the members concerned about the implications of fully embracing Iran — suited the US well.

But global fissures have only deepened over the past two years, frequently placing China, Russia and India together against the US — as in Syria and Ukraine, where New Delhi backed Moscow over Washington.

China is also convinced that it has a potential friend in Narendra Modi despite his election speeches critical of Beijing. China had welcomed Modi with open arms three times when he was Gujarat chief minister — at a time Washington treated him as a pariah and refused him a visa.

Chinese President Xi Jinping signalled his intent to pull India closer when he indicated to Modi that Beijing was willing to consider expanding the SCO. This was when the two met on the margins of the BRICS summit in Brazil last month. Xi is expected to visit India in September.

India’s entry into a strategic grouping that will include three nations that America wants to distance from its allies — Russia, China and Iran — will almost certainly upset fence-sitters in the US establishment, already unsure of the fruits of courting India over the past decade.

“New Delhi has given Russia’s aggression in Crimea implicit approval and strongly opposed sanctions on Moscow, calling Moscow’s interests in Crimea legitimate,” Steve Chabot, the Republican chairman of a key foreign affairs panel of the US House of Representatives, told senior members of the Obama administration last month.

The administration officials were deposing before the panel ahead of secretary of state John Kerry’s visit to India for the India-US strategic dialogue last week.

“Can the US trust India to be a reliable partner on significant geopolitical challenges if, for example, we can’t get India’s support on this growing crisis?” Chabot asked.

“And has the Malaysian airliner shoot-down changed India’s attitude at all in this particular area?”

Kerry and the US received the answer to where India would stand on sanctions against Russia during the strategic dialogue when Sushma bluntly said that India’s foreign policy was “not flexible”.

Kerry accepted that he was disappointed but appeared resigned to India’s decision.

“We would obviously welcome India joining in with us with respect to that (the sanctions),” Kerry said. “But it is up to them. It is India’s choice.”



Delhi gears to join China-Russia club

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Thread title seems wrong.

And the Americans are joking if they think any of the BRICS are going to sanction Russia.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Thread title seems wrong.

And the Americans are joking if they think any of the BRICS are going to sanction Russia.

What do you think if US sanctions india which has bought alot of US Military equipment and is in process.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

What do you think if US sanctions india which has bought alot of US Military equipment and is in process.

Then maybe India will buy more weapons systems from Russia, and America loses the contracts and the money.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Then maybe India will buy more weapons systems from Russia, and America loses the contracts and the money.

I said it only because US has forced france and germany to end contracts for military/naval hardware that russians wanted...only france will deliver, Germans lost billions at behest of US my opinion is US don't care good at delivering equipment better at sanctions.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I said it only because US has forced france and germany to end contracts for military/naval hardware that russians wanted...only france will deliver, Germans lost billions at behest of US my opinion is US don't care good at delivering equipment better at sanctions.

That's why countries shouldn't buy from America, see how quickly they raise sanctions, they jumped from Iran/Syria sanctions to Russian sanctions in a heartbeat. And they still have an Arms embargo on China.

There is no guarantee they will continue to support their weapons platforms, especially during wartime when they are most needed.

 

[Luftwaffe]

That's why countries shouldn't buy from America, see how quickly they raise sanctions, they jumped from Iran/Syria sanctions to Russian sanctions in a heartbeat. And they still have an Arms embargo on China.

There is no guarantee they will continue to support their weapons platforms, especially during wartime when they are most needed.

Agree, China is in position that it don't care about arms embargo but same can't be said about every nation say india they've locked themselves with US made hardware...if US can sanction russians and force allies to end contracts for US it is blink of an eye decision to sanction hindustan or even Pakistan the problem for Pakistan is bad economy due to bad corrupt governance for india confusion of allegiance.

 

[IndoUS]

Agree, China is in position that it don't care about arms embargo but same can't be said about every nation say india they've locked themselves with US made hardware...if US can sanction russians and force allies to end contracts for US it is blink of an eye decision to sanction hindustan or even Pakistan the problem for Pakistan is bad economy due to bad corrupt governance for india confusion of allegiance.

There very few US made weapon system in Indian inventory. Secondly, there is no confusion of allegiance, there is only self interest.

 

[SrNair]

What do you think if US sanctions india which has bought alot of US Military equipment and is in process.

They cant do more sanctions about it.Till now the equipment that we bought from US is mainly remains transport aircraft field.And we have Russian substitute for it if they sanctioned us in future.
Our policy makers knows what they are doing.
On topic:we already knew Narendra Modi wont forget and forgive.He will increase our trade relations with US .But on political side I dont think so.
And they are more worry about India stance rather than any other nations that seek SCO membership.

 

[Luftwaffe]

They cant do more sanctions about it.Till now the equipment that we bought from US is mainly remains transport aircraft field.And we have Russian substitute for it if they sanctioned us in future.
Our policy makers knows what they are doing.
On topic:we already knew Narendra Modi wont forget and forgive.He will increase our trade relations with US .But on political side I dont think so.
And they are more worry about India stance rather than any other nations that seek SCO membership.

They sanctioned russia financially, they forced france and germany to sanction russia in various Areas including some contracts where germany proceeded with sanctions/contracts cancelled and french opt out but over all france did sanction in some areas. So pretty much they can do it to hindustan under any pretext may it be supporter of russia.

There very few US made weapon system in Indian inventory. Secondly, there is no confusion of allegiance, there is only self interest.

If it is self interest than why did US sanction russians why did germany cancel contracts lost millions perhaps billions and rest of europe. Don't forget 98 if US can sanction india then it can do it today. it is not about very few weapon systems it is their capabilities. Anyway my opinion is at one point hindustan would be asked to choose and my opinion is hindustan has to live in this region so it would choose neighbors and russia instead of US these are all possibilities and dirty last ditch efforts by US, they have done it before to Latin America and other Nations.

 

[SrNair]

Except

They sanctioned russia financially, they forced france and germany to sanction russia in various Areas including some contracts where germany proceeded with sanctions/contracts cancelled and french opt out but over all france did sanction in some areas. So pretty much they can do it to hindustan under any pretext may it be supporter of russia.

Wrong.If that was the case they also can challenge the China.But they cant. India and China has some advantages
compared to Russia.One world second largest economy with world largest population and other is a world largest democracy with a fast growing economy and second largest
population .In sense both these nations would remain as a fastest growing economy with ever expanding markets that US companies cant ignore.We Indians dont even complete our reforms but still wehave good GDP growth.If they sanctioned us in long term it would be disaster for them.
But except in energy security area Russia cant offer something like this.And we already faced a lot of severe sanctions from US during 1998 and earlier decades also.We know there game.Look at the diplomat case .A single US action changed Indian public opinion drastically.We only care about national interest .no more no less.

They sanctioned russia financially, they forced france and germany to sanction russia in various Areas including some contracts where germany proceeded with sanctions/contracts cancelled and french opt out but over all france did sanction in some areas. So pretty much they can do it to hindustan under any pretext may it be supporter of russia.



If it is self interest than why did US sanction russians why did germany cancel contracts lost millions perhaps billions and rest of europe. Don't forget 98 if US can sanction india then it can do it today. it is not about very few weapon systems it is their capabilities. Anyway my opinion is at one point hindustan would be asked to choose and my opinion is hindustan has to live in this region so it would choose neighbors and russia instead of US these are all possibilities and dirty last ditch efforts by US, they have done it before to Latin America and other Nations.

Dont compare India with Germans.Germans are already under a lot of pressure from US and Thay have a large airbase in there.
But India is opposite to all of this.
We are handling them very carefully.

 

[BJP*]

One thing is for sure @Chinese-Dragon always knew that Modi would be friendlier to china. I have also noted that CD know about Indian politics more than any Pakistani on the forum. Once asked about this interest of CD. He then said that he had general interest in south Asia. But closely following the posts of CD one can easily figure out that he know very less about internal politics of Pakistan compared to India.

CD, Initially when you joined PDF you were the only pro-Indian chinese member. Later you became core Indian hater, now your posts are neutral.

I wanted to ask you what causes you to have your special emotions with India.

 

[Infinity]

One thing is for sure @Chinese-Dragon always knew that Modi would be friendlier to china. I have also noted that CD know about Indian politics more than any Pakistani on the forum. Once asked about this interest of CD. He then said that he had general interest in south Asia. But closely following the posts of CD one can easily figure out that he know very less about internal politics of Pakistan compared to India.

CD, Initially when you joined PDF you were the only pro-Indian chinese member. Later you became core Indian hater, now your posts are neutral.

I wanted to ask you what causes you to have your special emotions with India.

It were those Idiot Indian members which made him from Pro-India to Indian Hater...........I admire his Knowledge of Indian Politics and Geography.............

 

[StormShadow]

What do you think if US sanctions india which has bought alot of US Military equipment and is in process.

.if US can sanction russians and force allies to end contracts for US it is blink of an eye decision to sanction hindustan or even Pakistan the problem for Pakistan is bad economy due to bad corrupt governance for india confusion of allegiance.

Relax...India has an independent foreign policy and unlike pakistan, India never tows the US line. Even the most recent news reports say this.
Russia Sanctions: India Defiant, Finland Nervous | Defense News | defensenews.com

It were those Idiot Indian members which made him from Pro-India to Indian Hater...........I admire his Knowledge of Indian Politics and Geography.............

Who is the idiot here? Nationalist indians or a chinese poster who keeps changing his feelings based on opinions of online indians or a member who calls members of fellow nationalities as idiots just because an online poster changed his opinion?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Later you became core Indian hater, now your posts are neutral.

I was never a fan or a hater.

Indian members liked to insult China, so I insulted their country back. It's called a flame war. I just happened to be better at it than others, several Indian members even sent me private messages telling me that I was the reason they left this forum.

But after India's growth rate fell to 4%, they suddenly lost interest in comparing themselves to China, therefore less flame wars.

Reality burst their bubble, and now they are behaving more rationally and less jingoistic/delusional. Plus, I've grown bored of flame wars in any case, now I just negative rate and ignore.