Electricity import from India a priority for Nawaz

[Armstrong]

Getting rid of a billion dollars of cyclic debt and reduce one-third line losses is not easy, and neither is finding money to invest. Our power supply situation is quite difficult at the moment with no easy solutions.

No...there is no quick & easy solution but I believe if we do the following now....we might be rid of this cometh the end of PML N's term !:

(i) Privatizing our State owned White Elephants like the PIA & others over the next 1-2 years in much the same way we did with the Telecom Sector ! Incidentally many of these holdings not only require obscene amounts of funds to service their losses but also are some of the biggest defaulters on electricity bill payments.

(ii) Appoint a competent & credible head of the Federal Board of Revenue who has the full backing of the Government to restructure the FBR for better efficiency & lesser corruption. And then grant the FBR constitutional independence to work without any Government interference.

(iii) Restructure the Energy Sector of Pakistan with an increased Privatization Initiative along with strong Regulation at the top - Follow some of the best models out there !

(iv) Give energy defaulters one last notice before publicly arresting them & sentencing them for a 6 month long sentence !

(v) Load-Shedding should be proportionate to the Power-Theft which is to say if 95% of Islamabad pays electricity bills they should have electricity on for 95% of the time similarly if only 70% of Lahore pays they should have electricity only 70% of the time not a second more !

(vi) Invest in Coal Gasification - Give Samar Mubarakmand the money !

(v) Invest in Coal Power Plants !

(vi) Source as much money as one can from the Private sector by giving them favorable terms; I hear that Mansha was willing to buy one of the new & up & coming dams if he gets 100% ownership without Government interference.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@ALL - FYI…I don’t think, politically it will be a good move by Indian government if they decide to export power to country like Pakistan specially when our own villages are living without power and next general elections are going to take place next year.

Mate this has been discussed before- when you have states like Gujarat and Punjab, who are geographically very close to Pakistan, producing a surplus of power- it is actually more feasible to sell this surplus to Pakistan than to try and transmit this surplus down to geographically distant Indian states in the South and East- because of transmission losses. States like Gujarat and Punjab will charge more per unit of power sold to Pakistan than they would to their own people or fellow Indian states so this move would generate extra revenue for these power sectors which they can invest in their own state/nation.


I think this offer,though, is only valid for another few years as soon India will be rolling out its National Grid which connects every state and as such surpluses will be transmitted down the line to where it is needed regardless of where the surplus and need exist. So in the future the states of Gujarat and Punjab will not be in a position to sell power to Pakistan as they will be helping out their fellow Indian states with power shortages.


After this, maybe in a decade's time when the Indian nation as a whole is producing a surplus, if the Pakistani siutaion isn't resolved, then they can re-offer exporting power to Pakistan.

 

[Rank]

some one tell this gannja many Indian cities suffer from this electricity ye ** aman ka tamasha NS band karay....

phir wohi harakatain shruu hogaya hey .. phir aglay **** pe laat maar kar mulk say ****** karkay nikaleengay ....10 10 saal laga laga kar apni zindage ise tarhan pore karayga har baar yaega aglay pichwaray pe laat maar kar bahir nikaaleengay...

 

[Abingdonboy]

some one let this gannja many Indian cities suffer from this electricity ye ** aman ka tamasha NS band karay....

phir wohi harakatain shruu hogaya hey .. phir aglay **** pe laat maar kar mulk say ****** karkay nikaleengay ....10 10 saal laga laga kar apni zindage ise tarhan pore karayga har baar yaega aglay pichwaray pe laat maar kar bahir nikaaleengay...

Yery true, but I think he is aware that India is adding the equivalent of Pakistan's entire national power generation capacity to its own grid on an annual basis. India is a logical step for him and when geographically close Indian states like Gujarat and Punjab are producing a significant surplus- why not tap this resource?

 

[livingdead]

No...there is no quick & easy solution but I believe if we do the following now....we might be rid of this cometh the end of PML N's term !:

(i) Privatizing our State owned White Elephants like the PIA & others over the next 1-2 years in much the same way we did with the Telecom Sector ! Incidentally many of these holdings not only require obscene amounts of funds to service their losses but also are some of the biggest defaulters on electricity bill payments.

(ii) Appoint a competent & credible head of the Federal Board of Revenue who has the full backing of the Government to restructure the FBR for better efficiency & lesser corruption. And then grant the FBR constitutional independence to work without any Government interference.

(iii) Restructure the Energy Sector of Pakistan with an increased Privatization Initiative along with strong Regulation at the top - Follow some of the best models out there !

(iv) Give energy defaulters one last notice before publicly arresting them & sentencing them for a 6 month long sentence !

(v) Load-Shedding should be proportionate to the Power-Theft which is to say if 95% of Islamabad pays electricity bills they should have electricity on for 95% of the time similarly if only 70% of Lahore pays they should have electricity only 70% of the time not a second more !

(vi) Invest in Coal Gasification - Give Samar Mubarakmand the money !

(v) Invest in Coal Power Plants !

(vi) Source as much money as one can from the Private sector by giving them favorable terms; I hear that Mansha was willing to buy one of the new & up & coming dams if he gets 100% ownership without Government interference.

none of these can work overnight but your industries need electricity NOW. They are going to get money for you and bring growth. BTW, can you tell me how much is the installed capacity and how much is requirement, you said installed capacity is already more than sufficient.

Mate this has been discussed before- when you have states like Gujarat and Punjab, who are geographically very close to Pakistan, producing a surplus of power- it is actually more feasible to sell this surplus to Pakistan than to try and transmit this surplus down to geographically distant Indian states in the South and East- because of transmission losses. States like Gujarat and Punjab will charge more per unit of power sold to Pakistan than they would to their own people or fellow Indian states so this move would generate extra revenue for these power sectors which they can invest in their own state/nation.


I think this offer,though, is only valid for another few years as soon India will be rolling out its National Grid which connects every state and as such surpluses will be transmitted down the line to where it is needed regardless of where the surplus and need exist. So in the future the states of Gujarat and Punjab will not be in a position to sell power to Pakistan as they will be helping out their fellow Indian states with power shortages.


After this, maybe in a decade's time when the Indian nation as a whole is producing a surplus, if the Pakistani siutaion isn't resolved, then they can re-offer exporting power to Pakistan.

we already have a national grid and states sell power to each other. Some states make good money out of it.

 

[Bang Galore]

No...there is no quick & easy solution but I believe if we do the following now....we might be rid of this cometh the end of PML N's term !:

(i) Privatizing our State owned White Elephants like the PIA & others over the next 1-2 years in much the same way we did with the Telecom Sector ! Incidentally many of these holdings not only require obscene amounts of funds to service their losses but also are some of the biggest defaulters on electricity bill payments.

Privatisation is not without costs. Would people accept steep hikes in tariffs ?

(iv) Give energy defaulters one last notice before publicly arresting them & sentencing them for a 6 month long sentence !

....and then what? How many people would you put in jail & for how long? Better to confiscate assets instead.

(v) Load-Shedding should be proportionate to the Power-Theft which is to say if 95% of Islamabad pays electricity bills they should have electricity on for 95% of the time similarly if only 70% of Lahore pays they should have electricity only 70% of the time not a second more !

That's actually funny. They have to have that much power first (to give 95%, 70% etc). Btw, prioritisation on the basis of revenue received is what is probably being done, which is why rural areas probably have a worse time.

(vi) Invest in Coal Gasification - Give Samar Mubarakmand the money !

(v) Invest in Coal Power Plants !

Money.......that's the problem bit.......

(vi) Source as much money as one can from the Private sector by giving them favorable terms; I hear that Mansha was willing to buy one of the new & up & coming dams if he gets 100% ownership without Government interference.

What is favourable terms? Will Pakistan guarantee that people will pay double what they are paying (those who are paying that is) and are the people okay with that? Even in India, private producers risk bankruptcy because state electricity boards are terrible at paying them. With that kind of risk inherent, you will have to offer private players the moon & then pretty much commit murder(by not paying them) or suicide(by passing on the charges)......

 

[Shoaib Rathore]

This I see from one of pro PMLN page.

لوڈ شیڈنگ کے خاتمے کے لئے مسلم لیگ (&#1606 نے حکمت عملی تیار کر لی ہے۔ ذرائع کے مطابق چھ سے بارہ ماہ کے عرصے میں لوڈ شیڈنگ کا روزانہ دورانیہ اٹھارہ گھنٹے سے گھٹا کر دو گھنٹے کر دیا جائے گا۔ بحران پر قابو پانے کے لئے بجلی کی چوری کی روک تھام کے لئے ڈیجیٹل میٹر لگائے جائیں گے اور ہر 100 ڈیجیٹل میٹرز کا پائلٹ پراجیکٹ کا ایک ”بیک اپ میٹر“ ہو گا جسے ”جی ایس ایم سم“ سے منسلک کر کے آئی ٹی سسٹم کا حصہ بنایا جائے گا۔ بتایا گیا ہے کہ 100 میٹرز میں سے کسی ایک میٹر سے بھی بجلی چوری ہوئی تو بلنک ہو گا اور معلوم ہو جائے گا کہ کس میٹر کو چھیڑا گیا ہے جبکہ بیک اپ میٹر سے چوری کی گئی بجلی کی مقدار کا علم ہو سکے گا۔ ذرائع نے بتایا کہ چاروں صوبوں میں بجلی کی چوری ہو رہی ہے۔ بلوچستان میں 41 فیصد، خیبر پی کے 39 تا 42 فیصد، سندھ 37 فیصد جبکہ پنجاب میں بجلی چوری صرف 12 فیصد ہے۔ آئندہ وزیراعظم نوازشریف کی قائم کردہ پرائیویٹ سیکٹرز اور بزنس کمیونٹی کے ماہرین سمیت پارٹی کے اپنے ماہرین پر مشتمل کمیٹی نے تجویز دی ہے کہ صوبوں میں بجلی چوری کی روک تھام کے لئے 10 فیصد لائن لاسز نک...

 

[Abingdonboy]

we already have a national grid and states sell power to each other. Some states make good money out of it.

Yes, the Indian Power Ministry is connecting Indian states gradually so some are connected to the National grid right now- some are not. They all will be soon enough:

the Power Ministry has decided to take up the work of connecting the southern grid with the national grid on a war footing, a task that is likely to be achieved by 2014.

“There are situations around the year when the northern grid is generating surplus power. At present, this surplus cannot be utilised by the southern grid as there is no credible linkage. But by 2014, all this will be history and South India will get a big relief in the shape of the facility to transfer power from one region to another,” a senior official said.

The country has northern, eastern, north-eastern, southern and western grids. All of them, except the southern grid, are interconnected synchronously.

Power Ministry gears to connect South with national grid - The Hindu

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I said it before, we can only make barter trade with Iran. Thus exchanges involving large sums would be difficult to conduct with Iran. This problem is not present with India where we can easily pay in US Dollars/Euros or even settle it through ACU.

India will actually HELP you if you guys only start behaving REASONABLY with us. Why would India NOT help. We are the only family you have, if you think of it.

 

[livingdead]

India will actually HELP you if you guys only start behaving REASONABLY with us. Why would India NOT help. We are the only family you have, if you think of it.

what help. Stop being condescending. They want to buy electricity and we want to sell. They sell us cement and onion and other stuff. Its all business.

 

[Armstrong]

Privatisation is not without costs. Would people accept steep hikes in tariffs ?

No it isn't - The same arguments were made when there was talk of the Telecom Industry being Privatized - Now 10-15 years down the lane they are competitive enough to compete with the best out there & are giving the lowest rates ever. Additionally when I talk about Privatizing them its not as if this is some kind of a revolutionary idea never practiced in the world - You've got numerous examples of privatization of the power sector all over the world !

Incidentally these are not my opinions but a unanimity of opinions of some of the leading Industrialists, Energy Sector & Finance Professionals - Dr. Khurshid Shah (Pakistan's Ex Finance Minister) did a series of shows on this on Business Plus where he invited some of the leading personalities from Pakistan's Industry, Energy Sector & the Financial Industry with many of them actually drawn up feasibility reports & submitted them to the Government numerous times without any response.

....and then what? How many people would you put in jail & for how long? Better to confiscate assets instead.

Naturally you don't have to go all the way; last time when the KESC started publishing the names of Energy defaulters in the News...the theft declined ! Start with a few & the rest will follow in line.

That's actually funny. They have to have that much power first (to give 95%, 70% etc). Btw, prioritisation on the basis of revenue received is what is probably being done, which is why rural areas probably have a worse time.

Like I said they do have the power when the Installed Capacity of Power Generation is more than the Consumption - Its the thefts, the default on payments & corruption (even the PM is facing a Court Inquiry on that) what contributed to the cyclical debt & cut the Actual Power Production to much...much less than what we could produce.

And no...its not being distributed on those basis ! But yes the Rural Areas are bearing the brunt of it even if some of them actually do pay their bills on time.

Money.......that's the problem bit.......

Indeed it is - Thats why I mentioned the FBR, the Privatization & most of all the time-frame ! If you watch some of the shows that I mentioned above on Business Plus you'd get to know how many financially sound propositions are actually available if the Government is only willing to look into it.

What is favourable terms? Will Pakistan guarantee that people will pay double what they are paying (those who are paying that is) and are the people okay with that? Even in India, private producers risk bankruptcy because state electricity boards are terrible at paying them. With that kind of risk inherent, you will have to offer private players the moon & then pretty much commit murder(by not paying them) or suicide(by passing on the charges)......

No...no double payment or anything like it ! Perhaps I should've elucidated it more. Mian Mansha - the Owner of Nishat Group of Industries - was talking about how they've conducted a feasibility study whereby we could produce as much 3000 MW of electricity using simply cotton sticks (a byproduct that I don't know of) as fuel for Thermal Power Plants. His Group of Industries already does that - They produce their own power through that & so do some other Textile Giants in Pakistan. He said that he & those others were willing to invest in it if the State facilitates them by getting rid of all the red-tape bureaucratic BS & finally allows them to expand & give power to the smaller industries in their Industrial estates - Right now they can only produce for themselves & aren't allowed to sell power to others !

The same has been related to me by a Sugar Mill Owner - we know - that the State isn't allowing them to expand their operations & give power to the nearby towns, cottage industries & even smaller fellow Sugar Mills by expanding on the power they produce in-house by using Molasses as thermal fuel ! They already power their own Group of Sugar Mills through that.

 

[fatman17]

we are always willing to take the 'easy' way out. no one is ready to bite the bullet, take some hard decisions which will pay off in the next 5-7 years. not building KBD is a 'crime' against the people of Pakistan.

 

[jnd3x0]

why not from china?

 

[Armstrong]

none of these can work overnight but your industries need electricity NOW. They are going to get money for you and bring growth. BTW, can you tell me how much is the installed capacity and how much is requirement, you said installed capacity is already more than sufficient.

Installed capacity is a little over 19,000 MWs whilst the demand is a little under 15,000 MWs whilst the production hovers around 9-10,000 MWs.

we already have a national grid and states sell power to each other. Some states make good money out of it.

Unfortunately power wasn't one of the subjects devolved to the Provinces.

we are always willing to take the 'easy' way out. no one is ready to bite the bullet, take some hard decisions which will pay off in the next 5-7 years. not building KBD is a 'crime' against the people of Pakistan.

Sir aaap Karachi mein beeth kar ye keh raheiii haiin !

Mereii tou apneii cousins Karachi waleii kehteiii hain ke KBD would be built on our dead bodies !

 

[bc040400065]

First of all we don't need to import power, we only need to solve the debt crisis and all our power issue will be zero in a months time.
2nd and the most is that India itself has shortage of electricity so how come they can sell it to us.?
NS has lost his mind, he needs mental care.