Election commission Ignores Blatant Bribery video & Statements by Ali Gillani & Maryam Nawaz

[El Sidd]

An amendment like 18th have already threaten the basic structure of the federation of Pakistan and I dont have to remind you about the anxiety it creates among many educated circles within Pakistan.

Loyalty to constitution is very fickle argument. Constitution has been scrapped all together, put in abeyance in past, would that put your loyalty in sleep mode if it happen again?

Constitution do not cover absolute loyalty. Its way down in packing order in the hierarchy on which Pakistan is based on. Please read "objective resolution" which sit above all constitutions of Pakistan, past, present and in future.

Sovereignty over the entire world belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the state of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust.

Above. The hierarchy is already defined. Sovereignty Belong to Allah --> State of Pakistan --> defined by objective resolution --> Constitution written under the guidelines defined precisely under the objective resolution.

Loyalty to constitution cannot be classed as absolute allegiance. Its the loyalty to state which matters.

I am pretty sure the word is universe and not world to begin with.

18th amendment strengthens the federation as per argument prevalent in Pakistan. The basic principle of the 18th amendment is not flawed like your argument about loyalty to the state without a constitution.

 

[CodeforFood]

I am pretty sure the word is universe and not world to begin with.

18th amendment strengthens the federation as per argument prevalent in Pakistan. The basic principle of the 18th amendment is not flawed like your argument about loyalty to the state without a constitution.

what is this 18th Amendment. Care to state?

 

[El Sidd]

what is this 18th Amendment. Care to state?

It gives a sense of autonomy to the states in matters of governance pertaining to the states resource.

Federation exercises still a healthy influence on the states.

One can argue that it need be made robust to deter exploitation of political monopoly but it's not an option to strike it off as some great travesty to the Republic.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I am pretty sure the word is universe and not world to begin with.

18th amendment strengthens the federation as per argument prevalent in Pakistan. The basic principle of the 18th amendment is not flawed like your argument about loyalty to the state without a constitution.

Point is, when constitution itself is causing disagreement, argument and polarity in views (18th amendment is an example) , how come this document can be a barometer of the loyalty of 220 million citizens? Loyalty must be undisputed, complete, undisrupted, never put in abeyance. That is what "Objective resolution" is. That is our beautifully written magna carta.

Your level and understanding of loyalty is low, mine is higher.

 

[El Sidd]

Point is

Objective resolution" is

barometer of the loyalty of 220 million citizens

unless 18th amendment threatens the above. i see no reason to bring the word loyalty to a mere discussion about distribution of wealth and resource.

Your level and understanding of loyalty is low, mine is higher.

Nevertheless the vote carries equal weightage be it states election or federal election

 

[Taimoor Khan]

unless 18th amendment threatens the above. i see no reason to bring the word loyalty to a mere discussion about distribution of wealth and resource.


Nevertheless the vote carries equal weightage be it states election or federal election

Loyality to a country is unifying , undisputed, undisrupted, constant , written in stone ..... trait. Constitutions of Pakistan, past, present and future, are none of the above, will always be vulnerable to serve agenda of political parties and their foreign sponsors.

Objective resolution is that written in stone document, above any constitution of Pakistan ever in existence. To undo this, you have to undo "Islamic republic of Pakistan". Loyalty should be to "Objective resolution", not to the constitution.

 

[El Sidd]

Loyalty should be to "Objective resolution", not to the constitution.

How does the said amendment threaten this?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

How does the said amendment threaten this?

The fact that me and you are arguing and have polar views about 18th amendment of the constitution, how come this be a unifying document for the overwhelming majority of citizens? I don't agree with 18th amended and want to be scrapped like many other citizens of Pakistan, would that make me and like minded disloyal to Pakistan because as we speak, it is constitution?

What if in future the constitution is scrapped or put in abeyance, would you and like minded will raise arms against the state?

Having said that, how many of us have objections over Qarardad-e-maqasid?

Loyalty to state as defined by Objective resolution is very hard to argue against. That is why I said, loyalty is to the state, not to the constitution.

 

[El Sidd]

Having said that, how many of us have objections over Qarardad-e-maqasid

Many. A considerable minority do have grievances with the preamble of the constitution. Secularists do not let opportunity of any sorts go for that.

The fact that me and you are arguing and have polar views about 18th amendment of the constitution, how come this be a unifying document for the overwhelming majority of citizens?

Having a difference of opinion and toleration of it makes it us a living nation. As of now consensus stands with the 18th amendment. Convince otherwise the people and you shall have it repealed.

I don't agree with 18th amended and want to be scrapped like many other citizens of Pakistan, would that make me and like minded disloyal to Pakistan because as we speak, it is constitution?

Unless sabotage is at play. you are constitutionally a free person with a liberal choice. Excuse for anti state activities don't usually need such constitutional logic or argument.

What if in future the constitution is scrapped or put in abeyance, would you and like minded will raise arms against the state

18th amendment means 17 have gone through without arms being raised. unless its islamic fundamental principles or objective resolution, i don't see people moving an inch

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Many. A considerable minority do have grievances with the preamble of the constitution. Secularists do not let opportunity of any sorts go for that.

"Many", "Considerable minority". Make up your mind.

Having a difference of opinion and toleration of it makes it us a living nation. As of now consensus stands with the 18th amendment. Convince otherwise the people and you shall have it repealed.

Simple logic, a document which is causing "difference of opinion" in a big way, cannot be a unifying factor and should not be looked upon a barometer for loyalty. State is above constitution, as described in Objective resolution, and should be/must be , the becon of loyalty for all the subjects within, including the constitution.

Unless sabotage is at play. you are constitutionally a free person with a liberal choice. Excuse for anti state activities don't usually need such constitutional logic or argument.

Loyalty is not a grey area. Its a case of "either you are with us or against us". So when you lot are saying that loyalty is for the constitution, that by default include all the amendments made into the constitution. Which in turn will make all the opponents of 18th amendment, disloyal.

Loyalty is to the state, as described under Objective resolution, the supreme human written document, which sits above any constitution of Pakistan.

18th amendment means 17 have gone through without arms being raised. unless its islamic fundamental principles or objective resolution, i don't see people moving an inch

Read again, I referred to the constitution, all of it. not just 18th amendment. As it has happened in past where constitution was scrapped or put in abeyance, since YOU , YOUR KIND, YOU LOT, are loyal to constitution, would you then raise arms to protect the constitution? Leave the "people" aside, talk on behalf of yourself and your likeminded lot.





This whole idea of loyalty to constitution is non sense. Every time a nutcase goes about killing spree in American school, they all come out from their holes start moaning and complaining about 1st amendment.

 

[El Sidd]

"Many", "Considerable minority". Make up your mind.

I see my Urdu has confused you.

Loyalty is not a grey area. Its a case of "either you are with us or against us".

To your own citizen and countrymen?

What is this? sparta?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If the election commission did something wrong or illegal, instead of attacking it and riling people up, Immy should put his money where his mouth is and file a judicial reference.

Bluster and outbursts are just immature and emotional displays.

It's politics, not an academic debate.

One has to do both, and it appears the first step is going through the ECP (the ECP is hearing this issue currently, and the ECP feedback is not very encouraging).

 

[Windjammer]

Watch from 22.00 Minutes and you get the full picture that how the Election Commission is the culprit and how the scumbags are sell outs.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I see my Urdu has confused you.

You always been a confused and incoherent individual, what language you use, its purely your choice.

 

[El Sidd]

You always been a confused and incoherent individual, what language you use, its purely your choice.

That is reality of man.

You seem to be either an Angel or Satan. Only God knows