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Egyptian Armed Forces

I disagree. ZSU-23-4M4 can actually fire anti-air missiles. They were specifically upgraded to be able to use 2 9K38 Igla Manpads on each side. Those silver bars are for mounting them. And even though I haven't seen Egyptian Shilkas ever use missiles, the Egypt has a significant amount of 9K38 Iglas so if they want they can mount them anytime.

Also I doubt there are as many Sinai-23s. I would rather believe they range in few examples, not more than 20. But I'm not an expert on Egyptian military so I wouldn't know better...
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These are new Russian ZSU-23-4M4..
Are we talking about Russia or Egypt..??

The Sinai-23 are as old as they were introduced in 1973 Ramadan war.. and have been upgraded constantly till now..They are in hundreds as Egypt makes them locally..
 
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These are new Russian ZSU-23-4M4..
Are we talking about Russia or Egypt..??

The Sinai-23 are as old as they were introduced in 1973 Ramadan war.. and have been upgraded constantly till now..They are in hundreds as Egypt makes them locally..

Actually, ability to fire anti-air missiles also goes for Egyptian ZSU-23-4M4s. As I said earlier, they both have tubes for mounting the MANPADs. The rest is in fire control that wasn't changed since then if I'm not mistaken. It just seems that the Egyptians don't really use this ability
 
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Actually, ability to fire anti-air missiles also goes for Egyptian ZSU-23-4M4s. As I said earlier, they both have tubes for mounting the MANPADs. The rest is in fire control that wasn't changed since then if I'm not mistaken. It just seems that the Egyptians don't really use this ability
Personally I do not recall seeing Sinai-23, I’m not even sure if they are deployed by mobile Air Defence or the Armoured Corps. However one can only assert that Egypt can easily make as much Sinai-23s as it’s stocks can allow of there were intentions.
Usually it’s personnel-fired MANPADS in MoD videos...
 
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should slow down any form of relations with them and just keep it professional

I think it's quite safe to emphatically assume that the EAF -- and the entire Egyptian military staff in general -- is quite familiar with all the intelligence intricacies involved in not just this military & political relationship, but every single one it is involved with and the political ramifications of outside influences and in particular, strenuous relations between countries that Egypt sees itself as a neutral element within.

As far as Israel, no one is more of a concern than the US itself and the Egyptian military has been playing that card very carefully and wisely since the late 70s.

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Some terrific EN pics.

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@The SC , check out the wake being produced by this Ambassador MK, it's moving sideways using its bow and stern jet thrusters. Something you don't see very often, similar to what the Mistral was doing during the Bernice exercise with Sisi and UAE crown prince on board.
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Some incredible footage of the joint Indian & Egyptian Air Forces exercises which included probably the first time EAF Rafales refueling from an IAF IL-78MKI. But what's really great is the terrific footage of EAF Mirage 2000's with some very rare close-ups we don't usually see of those aircraft because of how secret they like to keep them for some reason. Great shot of the 2-seater moving out onto the runway with EAF pilot and Indian pilot back-seater. Also with the 2Ks and Rafales are MiG-29M/M2s and EAF F-16 blck-52s.


Some nice stills from the EAF video.
Very well maintained Indian Air Force IL-78MKI performing A-A refueling with EAF jets.

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Actually, ability to fire anti-air missiles also goes for Egyptian ZSU-23-4M4s. As I said earlier, they both have tubes for mounting the MANPADs. The rest is in fire control that wasn't changed since then if I'm not mistaken. It just seems that the Egyptians don't really use this ability
Sinai-23 can carry 6 missiles.. they have been upgraded with a radar and obviously fire control..
 
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It's now or never for the Su-35 deal and for the EAF's freedom of purchasing weapons of its choosing without any restrictions. The stance needs to be made now at this meeting or it will never happen. Shoukry needs to tell that slinky dinky Blinky and Joe Biden that there is no fear of CAATSA or whatever the consequences. The US can only do so much to Egypt. It can't treat it like Iran and pose sanction of enemy combatant status. So let's see if this Egyptian Government has what it takes to make this happen. And no settling for 2nd hand F-15s or even new ones with or without AIM-120s. Freedom is a lot more important than consolation prizes. Let's hope for a stiff diplomatic position by Egypt and the strong will to defy the US. At the same time, get additional benefits from Russia for additional guarantees of support if the US decides to punish Egypt in any way, even if it's minor.

 
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It's now or never for the Su-35 deal and for the EAF's freedom of purchasing weapons of its choosing without any restrictions. The stance needs to be made now at this meeting or it will never happen. Shoukry needs to tell that slinky dinky Blinky and Joe Biden that there is no fear of CAATSA or whatever the consequences. The US can only do so much to Egypt. It can't treat it like Iran and pose sanction of enemy combatant status. So let's see if this Egyptian Government has what it takes to make this happen. And no settling for 2nd hand F-15s or even new ones with or without AIM-120s. Freedom is a lot more important than consolation prizes. Let's hope for a stiff diplomatic position by Egypt and the strong will to defy the US. At the same time, get additional benefits from Russia for additional guarantees of support if the US decides to punish Egypt in any way, even if it's minor.

Bro.. the SU-35 deal was signed in 2018..it is a done deal..
 
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Bro.. the SU-35 deal was signed in 2018..it is a done deal..

I wish I could say that. You need to read the articles, my bro. 2018 or 2015 won't matter. The US wants to maintain CAATSA on those aircraft and this visit, apart from the usual BS hypocritical topics of human rights and US military aid, the entire other half is with the DoD which will be discussing the Su-35 specifically and maintaining CAATSA on Russia and any allies taking part. This is far from a done deal, my bro. That's why we haven't seen a single Su-35 so far, it all makes sense because everything is hinged on this meeting on November 8-9.

That's also why I said Shoukry needs to tighten his belt and go in there with his mind made up and Egypt will have to suffer whatever the consequences are, because this is it. It's now or never. If they back down to the US, Russia will move away from being a solid supplier like it has been because it will be stuck with the aircraft and will have lost all trust in Egypt. The US will tighten its belt even tighter which is the last thing we want to see. So the ramification are extraordinary for this meeting.

No offense to @joker87 , but there hasn't been a single shred of evidence of any of the things mentioned such as any viper upgrades or an unveiling of any Su-35s "very soon" or any of that sort. What we've seen actually supports the opposite to tell you the truth. Giving the EAF the source codes and allowing Al-Tariq missiles to be integrated is only supporting the fact that the US is giving more to perhaps make up for the loss of something else. Wonder what that could be, right? So just cuz the deal was struck in 2018 with all respect doesn't mean diddly squat when it comes to the US holding the cards. This is a historical moment where we need to see the Egyptian foreign minister show some serious balls and strike a diplomatic deal with it where the EAF won't have any issues with inducting the Su-35SEs and at the same time be able to maintain its fleet of F-16s, which it could easily lose should the US decide to punish it. And that would be fine by me. That was the freedom and escaping that grasp I was referring to in my previous post. Much more important than even maintaining the entire 190+ F-16 fleet.
 
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I wish I could say that. You need to read the articles, my bro. 2018 or 2015 won't matter. The US wants to maintain CAATSA on those aircraft and this visit, apart from the usual BS hypocritical topics of human rights and US military aid, the entire other half is with the DoD which will be discussing the Su-35 specifically and maintaining CAATSA on Russia and any allies taking part. This is far from a done deal, my bro. That's why we haven't seen a single Su-35 so far, it all makes sense because everything is hinged on this meeting on November 8-9.

That's also why I said Shoukry needs to tighten his belt and go in there with his mind made up and Egypt will have to suffer whatever the consequences are, because this is it. It's now or never. If they back down to the US, Russia will move away from being a solid supplier like it has been because it will be stuck with the aircraft and will have lost all trust in Egypt. The US will tighten its belt even tighter which is the last thing we want to see. So the ramification are extraordinary for this meeting.

No offense to @joker87 , but there hasn't been a single shred of evidence of any of the things mentioned such as any viper upgrades or an unveiling of any Su-35s "very soon" or any of that sort. What we've seen actually supports the opposite to tell you the truth. Giving the EAF the source codes and allowing Al-Tariq missiles to be integrated is only supporting the fact that the US is giving more to perhaps make up for the loss of something else. Wonder what that could be, right? So just cuz the deal was struck in 2018 with all respect doesn't mean diddly squat when it comes to the US holding the cards. This is a historical moment where we need to see the Egyptian foreign minister show some serious balls and strike a diplomatic deal with it where the EAF won't have any issues with inducting the Su-35SEs and at the same time be able to maintain its fleet of F-16s, which it could easily lose should the US decide to punish it. And that would be fine by me. That was the freedom and escaping that grasp I was referring to in my previous post. Much more important than even maintaining the entire 190+ F-16 fleet.
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia expressed its rejection of any attempts to politicize human rights issues. and remove it from its natural forum (the Human Rights Council).

The Kingdom stressed its rejection of these attempts, specifically from those countries that commit violations of human rights, while at the same time criticizing others, ignoring their weaknesses and mistakes.

The Kingdom's permanent representative to the United Nations, Ambassador Abdullah bin Yahya Al-Mouallimi. stressed that “the countries that politicize these issues today, are not immune to crimes and violations of human rights Inside and outside their borders, and this is evident from their human rights records.”
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And he added: “If someone wants to criticize the political and current situation in Yemen .. he has to show his qualifications for that, as no country in the world has provided humanitarian aid
economic, and medical conditions for the Yemeni people, as did the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.”


Their were news about the Egyptian answer about the SU-35 and CAATSA.. and it was clear.. that sanctions are refused.. you know why.. The F-35 refusal..
 
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The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia expressed its rejection of any attempts to politicize human rights issues. and remove it from its natural forum (the Human Rights Council).

The Kingdom stressed its rejection of these attempts, specifically from those countries that commit violations
human rights, while at the same time criticizing others, ignoring their weaknesses and mistakes.

The Kingdom's permanent representative to the United Nations, Ambassador Abdullah bin Yahya Al-Mouallimi. stressed that “the countries that politicize these issues today, are not immune to crimes and violations of human rights Inside and outside their borders, and this is evident from their human rights records.”
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And he added: “If someone wants to criticize the political and current situation in Yemen .. he has to show his qualifications for that, as no country in the world has provided humanitarian aid
economic, and medical conditions for the Yemeni people, as did the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.”

And he's 100% right. Exactly what I've been saying. Even the US (and I'm not talking about the time Christopher Columbus raped and pillaged the native population, or what the 1st Cavalry Division did pretty much the same thing while expanding the frontier and all the human tragedies that preceded until today, I'm talking about the things done on the streets and in courtrooms today!) makes the US one of the last to say boo about human rights. So when it tries to use that and call the last Rabaa sit-in as a massacre, or claim journalists are targeted and jailed and all that crap, they need to clean not only their house first, but take a hard look at they're unconditional support of that cretinous cancer next door that is violating human rights by the minute!!! Tearing down Palestinian homes claiming they were built without a permit (what a joke since they deny almost every single permit attempt in the first place) and jailing people without charges by the minute!!!!!!! Yet this government turns a blind eye to those atrocities and judges Arabs and the Egyptian government as the barbaric one LOLOL! The hypocrisy is sadly, laughably comical!

This is why this meeting is of UTMOST importance because all of these things need to be spit back at Blinken's face and the zionist Biden by Shoukry and tell him "how dare you judge us from where you sit and what you do?!" The importance of the tone and the resulting outcome of this meeting will be life-altering for the Egyptian government and military. That was my point as far as this being really the last chance for Egyptian officials to hold a stiff stance against the US representatives and be very strong and adamant about it. Tell them that the EGY government refuses to hear any of these false accusations any more and that this will be the last time they will be tolerated and from now on, things will be based on that mutual understanding. That as long as the US supports the cancerous' human rights violations that date back to 1946 and possibly earlier, and continues to turn a blind eye by picking and choosing who it deems is following the "democratic human rights path" and adhering to their vision of a certain standard of human rights while its own house and especially the one it blindly supports in our neighborhood is filled with atrocities and is mired with injustices that could fill a history book, then things will never change.

They also need to be very assertive about ending the misconception of "parody" that the US has created in the military standards to give the cancer the constant edge. If they want to continue denying advanced weaponry and with the same breath dictate what Egypt should and should not be able to purchase, then Egypt is prepared to change the status quo by doing something extreme. I don't know what exactly they should say that is, I have a few ideas but the point is enough to make, that this is the strong stance Egypt needs to make to end this bullcrap of 40+ years of conditional armament. It has to end and end NOW. The peace treaty that was signed in 1978/79 holds a TON of value for Egypt and MUST be respected by the US. THAT is the crux of the weapon's issue, not the other steaming dung of excuses they keep throwing out. Shoukry needs to make that abundantly clear, that others who essentially are considered enemies of the state of cancer, are obtaining all these advanced weapons while the only country with an actual peace treaty that has been solidly abided by for over 40 years is denied these weapons? And told it can't buy others? What the heck is wrong with this picture and how difficult is it to make this point?

Their were news about the Egyptian answer about the SU-35 and CAATSA.. and it was clear.. that sanctions are refused.. you know why.. The F-35 refusal..

All that said, the F-35 is not the great game changer it's been selling itself as and will be proven so as soon as it runs into a properly fixed adversary who not only is adept in understanding all the aspects of long wave radars, over the horizon radars, IFF and especially EW with all its intricacies as well as the future developments of radar capabilities such as Russia's new ROFAR technology that essentially will make standard stealth as it's instituted today, simply just another gadget like camo. An adversary who has a defense network tailored to protect itself against what that aircraft and the F-22 and accompanying fleets' capabilities such as Russia, possibly China and I would include France in that mix. A huge reason for the way they have developed the Su-57. I love it when people say things like "look at the RAM & skin on the F-35 & F-22 and look at the Su-57" and they claim how bad it is by comparison. But they don't understand one bit about how they designed that Su-57 and how thin the entire aircraft is as opposed to the bulky bus that is the F-35 and the huge, ginormous rudders on the F-22. This is a huge example of how the Russians are looking to the future as the current RAM will be obsolete in short time, but a thinly designed aircraft will be something that has serious, everlasting importance for as long as radars are being developed.

Then look at how all 6th generation designs are almost exclusively "tailess"! Then you see how small the all-working, canted stabilators on the Su-57 are compared to the ginormous canted ruddervators on the F-22! Who's looking at the long-term aspects in designing these aircraft, the US or the Russians? That said, it's best that the dud is not permitted to be purchased by the EAF which they knew all along would be the case (just like you said and we all knew) hence opening the door for Russian hardware and French for that matter. We all know that was a tactic deployed by Egypt when they asked for it since they knew quite well it would be refused. The thinking was that the refusal opens the door for Russian, Chines and French (and others') hardware but then came the sticking point of CAATSA. That brought us back to how important this meeting is.

And since Egypt does have a relatively good relationship with the US, it's important that they don't just go out and once they purchase the Su-35S' that they don't start flying them without at the most, not the least, the most, address the US that this is what they wish to do to continue the modernization process of the EAF and leave it at that. At least they've done their diplomatic due diligence because let's face it, it would be much better if they can still field their huge fleet of F-16s and even improve on them without issues from the US.

So they have their hands full. They have A LOT to stress and dictate to the US at this meeting, hence my comment of its super importance. It's like a historical day that will forever alter the major relationship between Egypt and the United States. Also remind them that the excellent respect Egypt has maintained in its peace treaty with the cancer needs to be taken into account at a very high level!

1) Be assertive in dictating the direction the EAF will be going om and that includes the initiation of
this first batch of 26 or 30 Su-35SE's.

2) Followed by an increase in the MiG-29M/M2 numbers by ordering a new batch of anywhere
between 30 to 50 MiG-35S' and all its associated weaponry including the 110km range RVV-SD or
R-77-1 which should also be a major asset accompanying the Su-35SE's fleet package in order to
maintain the BVR range of standard missiles out there, including the AIM-120C/7 so that the EAF
can RIGHTFULLY possess the necessary weaponry to DEFEND itself in a capable way.

3) At the same time, the EAF needs to upgrade the majority of its F-16 fleet to the Viper Upgrade.
Nothing wrong about asking for that as it certainly deserves it which would include:
- Change all the radars to the APG-83 AESA Radar
- (CPD) center pedestal display, helmet-mounted cueing system and a high-volume, high-speed
data bus.
- AGCAS or automated ground collision avoidance system.
- JDAM kits for all the current MK type munitions in the EAF's inventory and new ones if the EAF
chooses or thinks it needs them to exterminate some residual bugs on the western border.
- changing the old computers to the new MMC, the high performance modular mission computer is
a must on all 145 or 150 or, if they can pull it off, on all 195+/-, even better.
- AIM-9X, AIM-132 ASRAAM, with of course the current, existing options of including any
future missile system from HALCON such as the already integrated Al-Tariq.
- Of course, without saying, AIM-120 C-7/8 and the option to include the IRIS-T, MICA NG and
Meteor in the very short future.

There are a few other systems that don't really need to be mentioned but this is what it will take to make Egypt happy and upgrade the relationship with the US that has been slowly tumbling in a spiral downfall that had no good ending in sight. And like I said, it is in the US' favor to help create this new and trusting relationship with Egypt because Egypt deserves it and then some. We've long suffered under these terrible conditions that have been its scourge by many filthy on-lookers that they need to end. Instead of threatening the bullshit of CAATSA on a very needed air superiority fighter in the EAF, the US needs to back off that crap, encourage a new relationship which ups the game with the products it develops and offers and it needs to offer it to Egypt and stop the denying and all that rubbish.

But all of that won't happen unless Shoukry and Co. raise their game and be VERY assertive, as well as super diplomatic (like they usually are) in order to tell the US that the Su-35S or any other purchase by the EAF is none of its business and end the BS of CAATSA without any economic retaliation, or else Egypt will be forced to take other measures that put the US at a disadvantage in the Middle East, losing a lot of the privileged access it has long enjoyed at the expense of Egypt and create a bad situation with one of its longest and best allies in the region. Again, the serious importance of this meeting that can and will alter the future landscape of US/Egypt relations.

It cost Taiwan $1.85bn to have that Viper upgrade done to 145 jets. That same exact deal can and should be purchased by Egypt for its aircraft and they can stress to the US that Egypt will not use the military air funds it's entitled to anyway, for this upgrade and will pay for them itself. To me, this would be a critical part of the negotiations for this upgrade and would entice the US to accept it more than if the EAF was insistent on using the aid funds (despite that being her complete and undeniable right to do so) tp show the US the practical stance Egypt is willing to take to make these things work.

Possibly even offer something else as not only an incentive to get the package, but to show that Egypt is a willing and strong and valuable partner to the US once the US stops the bullshit shenanigans of stupid and decrepit tie-downs and 'stepping on its neck' filthy tactics that breed nothing but contempt. Offer things in the line of intel or economic shares in all the incredible economic growth and buildings that are actually happening and growing at extremely fast paces in Egypt right now before our eyes. Change the terrible status quo that's been dragging its ugly rear end for over 4 decades and bring a new age of deserved prosperity to the table.

Anger, contempt and ill will are all terrible ways to feel and be stuck in as a result of decades of this type of mistreatment and all that needs to change, starting at this meeting. If the EAF can persuade the US to do this, then things will improve beyond belief. The best part will be that the EAF will have put it in the US' hands and it will be up to the US to make it, or break it and the onus will be on it! Again, the incredible importance of this historical meeting. Let's see if Shoukry & co. have it in them.
 
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