Egyptian Armed Forces

[ziaulislam]

Also... I think that it won't be really wrong or unpractical if we buy some used Russian\Chineese\Indian MIGs and SUs and TUs, and may be even F-5 and Mirage 5 (of course, if they can be modernized and age-extended without spending a lot of money)... I know it's totally naive to say this, but a large (or, preferably, A HUGE) number of 70's third generation aircrafts, along with a considerable number of 4th and 4th+ and 4th++, can prove efficient, even if in a war against a strong and technologically advanced military... You should get as many advanced aircrafts (and weapones in general) to match the new and advanced enemy weaponry... But, modernized-yet-outdated and less-capability jets\ships\tanks\etc... can, at least, take a big portion of the enemy air defence or any other missiles, which should significantly lower the danger and damage that Advanced and strongest weapones undertake... Again, my opinion will probably seem naive for most people (which can be understood, since I am no professional or expert, and never joined the armed forces), but I think that number\quantity still matters, even in lower\weaker weapones.

What I wish to hear in the near future (the coming 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years), is:
- More advanced aircrafts (French Rafale and Mirage 2000, Russian MIG-29M, and SU-35, and more\higher-block F-16's)
make sense
- NOT Retiring the active MIGs and Mirage-5 and F-5.
you do know aircraft have a particular amount of hours on their air frame, and we are talking about obsolete fighters
-More fast and maneuverable (even if old) aircrafts (Like MIG-25)
kinda useless, and no it didnt had fly by wire at that time
- TOT of equipment in all the fields (Land, Navy,air)... JF-17 is a good example, and a perfect start.
Egypt is not interested, which begs the question what is eygpt goign to do to replace its practically stranded mig 21s and mirage 5

 

[The SC]

 

[Gomig-21]

Also... I think that it won't be really wrong or unpractical if we buy some used Russian\Chineese\Indian MIGs and SUs and TUs, and may be even F-5 and Mirage 5 (of course, if they can be modernized and age-extended without spending a lot of money)... I know it's totally naive to say this, but a large (or, preferably, A HUGE) number of 70's third generation aircrafts, along with a considerable number of 4th and 4th+ and 4th++, can prove efficient, even if in a war against a strong and technologically advanced military... You should get as many advanced aircrafts (and weapones in general) to match the new and advanced enemy weaponry... But, modernized-yet-outdated and less-capability jets\ships\tanks\etc... can, at least, take a big portion of the enemy air defence or any other missiles, which should significantly lower the danger and damage that Advanced and strongest weapones undertake... Again, my opinion will probably seem naive for most people (which can be understood, since I am no professional or expert, and never joined the armed forces), but I think that number\quantity still matters, even in lower\weaker weapones.

During the 1970's, a couple of military guys who were basically responsible for the development of the F-16 came up with the now famous "High/Low mix" for creating a strong air force using basically only 2 types of aircraft. The "high" would be a super advanced aircraft that would be in lower numbers (because of cost) and the "low" would be a large amount of 2nd tier aircraft and together they would adapt to certain principles that would make that combination very effective. It obviously didn't work out in the USAF primarily because the navy didn't opt for the F-16 and instead, chose the loser of that competition in the F-18. Then came the race to develop stealth aircraft and so the story goes. There are some air forces out there that follow that guideline in some ways and even add in a 3rd to the mix to create a "medium" and I think the EAF is right along those lines ATM.

If they stuck to the current inventory, excluding the older 3rd gen aircraft, they have an excellent mix that needs just slight improvement.

218 F-16s (the "low")
36 Rafales (the "high")
50 MiG-35 (the "medium)

Then they can improve on those numbers just slightly, not even by much and work on improving the F-16 since the low end needs to constantly be updated to keep up with the developments in technology. If they could bring the Rafale numbers up to 60, the MiGs to 100 and upgrade the F-16s, they can sail up until 2025 very comfortably and by then be in the mix for possibly one of the non-US stealth fighters out there.

What I wish to hear in the near future (the coming 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years), is:
- More advanced aircrafts (French Rafale and Mirage 2000, Russian MIG-29M, and SU-35, and more\higher-block F-16's)

I'm pretty sure the F-16 is done and there won't be anymore coming.

- NOT Retiring the active MIGs and Mirage-5 and F-5.

F-5's?

-More fast and maneuverable (even if old) aircrafts (Like MIG-25)

The older the aircraft, the higher their cost per flight and maintenance and the higher risk of failures and crashes. This is the importance of modernization.

- Much more attack Helicopters.

Those are definitely coming.

- More and more modern tanks (American, Russian, and any other that may be a good fit), with upgrading as much as possible of the Abrams and M-60's, and modernizing Russian T's)

We have so many tanks I don't even know why they thought of the T-90 unless they plan on replacing some of the M-60A3s with them. I even think that many of the Abrams that have recently been assembled and rolled out of Helwan are put in storage simply because there isn't the need to have them active. All together Egypt has close to 4000 tanks if I'm not mistaken. That's a huge number lol and with such a large number comes a HUGE number of crew to train etc. Hectic for something that really isn't needed much.

- Navy: More technologically-advanced and capable big\and\strong ships: French FREMM, German MEKO, alomg with other Western\Russian\Chineese\Korean Destroyers\Frigates\Corvettes.

Navy for certain, especially the frigates. Considering the current and future priorities in the Mediterranean and the Red Sea, the navy build-up is a must.

- I think air defence is doing good enough, but a S-400 would be a great addition... And I think we can say the same about artillery.
- UAVs purchasing and locally-producing is going well, I guess... But let's just keep it up and try to get more
- Locally producing and purchasing more APC\IFV and MRAP and HUMVEEs.

Air defense, UAVs and jump start a much more ambitious, indigenous missile program.

 

[ziaulislam]

During the 1970's, a couple of military guys who were basically responsible for the development of the F-16 came up with the now famous "High/Low mix" for creating a strong air force using basically only 2 types of aircraft. The "high" would be a super advanced aircraft that would be in lower numbers (because of cost) and the "low" would be a large amount of 2nd tier aircraft and together they would adapt to certain principles that would make that combination very effective. It obviously didn't work out in the USAF primarily because the navy didn't opt for the F-16 and instead, chose the loser of that competition in the F-18. Then came the race to develop stealth aircraft and so the story goes. There are some air forces out there that follow that guideline in some ways and even add in a 3rd to the mix to create a "medium" and I think the EAF is right along those lines ATM.

If they stuck to the current inventory, excluding the older 3rd gen aircraft, they have an excellent mix that needs just slight improvement.

218 F-16s (the "low")
36 Rafales (the "high")
50 MiG-35 (the "medium)

Then they can improve on those numbers just slightly, not even by much and work on improving the F-16 since the low end needs to constantly be updated to keep up with the developments in technology. If they could bring the Rafale numbers up to 60, the MiGs to 100 and upgrade the F-16s, they can sail up until 2025 very

.

this doctrine is simply doctrine of economics, USN had enough money to go with f-18
eygpt buying another 24 rafale and another 50 migs would mean atleast 10-15 billion dollars (twice the cost of whole jf-17 program(250+ fighters) for example
than we have the issue of how much is the operating cost, is spares will completely come from outside, than we need to think about future updates and importantly how much will be the availability/serviceability, which is always an issue

never the less, it would mean that eventually atleast in pure numbers the force will shrink but that isnt a bad thing, in capability this would be a very strong force

but i think Egypt can afford it..i would not add another platform now, especially if mig35 is done deal

f-16 can go an upgrade to give them another 20 years

 

[The SC]

this doctrine is simply doctrine of economics, USN had enough money to go with f-18
eygpt buying another 24 rafale and another 50 migs would mean atleast 10-15 billion dollars (twice the cost of whole jf-17 program(250+ fighters) for example
than we have the issue of how much is the operating cost, is spares will completely come from outside, than we need to think about future updates and importantly how much will be the availability/serviceability, which is always an issue

never the less, it would mean that eventually atleast in pure numbers the force will shrink but that isnt a bad thing, in capability this would be a very strong force

but i think Egypt can afford it..i would not add another platform now, especially if mig35 is done deal

f-16 can go an upgrade to give them another 20 years

24 Rafale and another 52 Mig-35 would mean not more than $6 billion..(not to forget that SU-XX is also coming).. The problem at hand though is with the F-16s needed upgrades _at least 100 of them should be upgraded to the V block with AESA radars and AMRAAMS_ ..and there is also a need for replacing the F-5s.. That is why the possibility of the localisation of the JF-17 technology is still on the table.. mostly the JF-17 Block 3 with the AESA radar, BVR missiles and even cruise missiles.. It will certainly give Egypt more independence for its air force.. and maybe a very good jump start for BVR missiles, cruise missiles' production as well as other modern ammunition.. let alone the capability to integrate Chinese, Pakistani, Russian and western weapon systems of its choice..

 

[MICA]

 

[ziaulislam]

24 Rafale and another 52 Mig-35 would mean not more than $6 billion..(not to forget that SU-XX is also coming).. The problem at hand though is with the F-16s needed upgrades _at least 100 of them should be upgraded to the V block with AESA radars and AMRAAMS_ ..and there is also a need for replacing the F-5s.. That is why the possibility of the localisation of the JF-17 technology is still on the table.. mostly the JF-17 Block 3 with the AESA radar, BVR missiles and even cruise missiles.. It will certainly give Egypt more independence for its air force.. and maybe a very good jump start for BVR missiles, cruise missiles' production as well as other modern ammunition.. let alone the capability to integrate Chinese, Pakistani, Russian and western weapon systems of its choice..

assuming a price of atleast 70 m for mig 35(which is low since thunders are selling for ~35-40 million with support package) is around 4 billion dollars with rest of package is in addition to this, rafale excluding training and spares cost is 100+Million so yeah may be 6 billion

what is the benefit of V upgrade if no AIM 120

 

[The SC]

assuming a price of atleast 70 m for mig 35(which is low since thunders are selling for ~35-40 million with support package) is around 4 billion dollars with rest of package is in addition to this, rafale excluding training and spares cost is 100+Million so yeah may be 6 billion

what is the benefit of V upgrade if no AIM 120

Mig-35 is around 45 to 50 million all included ($36 million basic- less for the Egyptian version)..Egypt bought 46 for $2 billion plus 6 gifted from Russia for Egypt's move to stimulate the otherwise suffering Mig company.... and read the post again it says V upgrades with AMRAAMS meaning the the AIM 120C.. D is too much to ask..
The JF-17 block 3 price is $29 million basic.. make it $39 million all included.. Block2 is $25 million basic.. we are not that far from the Mig prices.. that is why localising the production should be more viable..

List prices of some fighter jets
Prices are approximate and can be reduced or raised depending on the buying country, the number of aircrafts and the package of additions and modifications required..
The list below gives an idea of prices and is almost close to reality and sometimes touches it..


F-22 Raptor $150 million


Typhoon Tranch-3 $120 million


F35 C $115 million, F35 B $100 million, F35 A $97 million


F15 K $95 million


Rafale $84 million


Sukhoi 35 S $63 million, Su-30 MKA $52 million, Sukhoi 30 MKM $51 million


F18 $55 million


F-16 Block 70 $50 million


Gripen-39 $47 million


MIG 35 $36 million, MIG 29K $30 million


JF-17 Block 3 $29 million, JF-17 Block -2 $25 million


J-10A $26 million


T-50 $25 million


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-most-expensive-and-least-expansive-fighter-aircrafts.546639/

 

[ziaulislam]

Mig-35 is around 45 to 50 million all included ($36 million basic- less for the Egyptian version)..Egypt bought 46 for $2 billion plus 6 gifted from Russia for Egypt's move to stimulate the otherwise suffering Mig company.... and read the post again it says V upgrades with AMRAAMS meaning the the AIM 120C.. D is too much to ask..
The JF-17 block 3 price is $29 million basic.. make it $39 million all included.. Block2 is $25 million basic.. we are not that far from the Mig prices.. that is why localising the production should be more viable..

List prices of some fighter jets
Prices are approximate and can be reduced or raised depending on the buying country, the number of aircrafts and the package of additions and modifications required..
The list below gives an idea of prices and is almost close to reality and sometimes touches it..


F-22 Raptor $150 million


Typhoon Tranch-3 $120 million


F35 C $115 million, F35 B $100 million, F35 A $97 million


F15 K $95 million


Rafale $84 million


Sukhoi 35 S $63 million, Su-30 MKA $52 million, Sukhoi 30 MKM $51 million


F18 $55 million


F-16 Block 70 $50 million


Gripen-39 $47 million


MIG 35 $36 million, MIG 29K $30 million


JF-17 Block 3 $29 million, JF-17 Block -2 $25 million


J-10A $26 million


T-50 $25 million


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-most-expensive-and-least-expansive-fighter-aircrafts.546639/

my bad

i guess you dont need training or weapon procurement to fly a jet

 

[The SC]

my bad

i guess you dont need training or weapon procurement to fly a jet

The prices you see are the basic ones for all the fighters listed.. read again the first paragraph of the post..It already says so..
"Prices are approximate and can be reduced or raised depending on the buying country, the number of aircrafts and the package of additions and modifications required.."


And please let's keep this thread purely about the Egyptian armed forces updates..
There are other threads where we can discuss weapons procurements.. for the Egyptian Armed Forces or from Pakistan..

 

[Gomig-21]

 

[Zulfiqar1919]

Egypt’s military is only for killing its own people. They have never won a single war in their history.

 

[Frogman]

Note the Civil Police insignia. Dual use of an Air Force asset with the Interior Ministry.

 

[Gomig-21]

Glad that unnecessarily derogatory post was taken care of by @Moderators.
Big-ups.

 

[Crocodile]

Nice to know the gazelles are still in service. They seem to be aging gracefully.