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Egypt, Turkey will join nuclear arms race

@ Mosa

calm the **** down


"of which 8.8 million are registered foreign expatriates and an estimated 1.5 million are illegal immigrants. Saudi nationals comprise an estimated 16 million people."

THE EXPATRIATE POPULATION IN SAUDI ARABIA « American Bedu

Here is a July 2012 estimate from an extremely reliable source called CIA - The World Factbook:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sa.html

Population:
26,534,504 (July 2012 est.)
country comparison to the world: 46
note: includes 5,576,076 non-nationals
 
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Here is a July 2012 estimate from an extremely reliable source called CIA - The World Factbook:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sa.html
CIA is not a primary source, they collect their information from other sources and they sometimes take forever to update their info. In most cases CIA is actually a horrible source. In my university, some of our teachers don't accept the CIA fact book for that reason. When it comes to economic date and population data, The IMF and World Bank, as well as a country's own national database are better than CIA.

And wtf does it matter? 5-8 million. Take your number. It's still damn pathetic for a country the size of SA.
 
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CIA is not a primary source, they collect their information from other sources and they sometimes take forever to update their info. In most cases CIA is actually a horrible source. In my university, some of our teachers don't accept the CIA fact book for that reason.

They might take their information from other sources, they may not be updating their data frequently, I can't comment on that. However none of that means they are unreliable. In any case I would trust "The World Factbook" more than "American Bedu".

As for teachers not accepting it as a source, that for the most part is quite subjective. My university teachers accepted it, so let's not argue over that. Some universities may accept it & some may not.

When it comes to economic date and population data, The IMF and World Bank, as well as a country's own national database are better than CIA.

And wtf does it matter? 5-8 million. Take your number. It's still damn pathetic for a country the size of SA.

The CIA World Factbook however is still better in my opinion than the source you provided.

Here are other sources then, they are all quite different:

Central Department Of Statistics & Information

World Development Indicators and Global Development Finance - Google Public Data Explorer

PopulationData.net : Saudi Arabia

Personally I would put Saudi Arabia's expatriate population at around 7 to 7.5 million. That's because of this source right here that claims that there are an estimated 7 million jobs held by expatriates here. Keep in mind I had not read this article before, if I had found it earlier I would have posted a link to it with my initial post.

Saudi Arabia: '10% of expat jobs needed to reduce ... - Silobreaker

KSA is trying to reduce the number of unnecessary expats in the country, so I suggest you don't worry too much about it.
 
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Well, in the West they are trying to sell two ideas: that Iran is trying to make nukes (false) and that countries surrounding Iran will start their own program if Iran gets the nuke.
S.Arabia already said its going to get nukes any way possible if Iran gets them. If you think we are ok with you having nukes and we don't then you are very delusional. In fact that's the only reason why the west is against Iranian nuclear bomb. They know Iran would never really get in a war with Israel let alone use nukes against them.

Why would Pakistan give or sell a "nuclear bomb" to SA? We are talking about a nuke here, not a armoured vehicle that you can trade easily
Because its part of the agreement we have with Pakistan when we financed their program. Basically its common knowledge now and every article on a Saudi nuclear program says that. Why do you think we did it? so they would say thank you:D
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Iran nuclear bid tipped to provoke Saudi bomb


THE arrival yesterday of a senior United Nations team in Tehran has raised hopes that Iran may be in the mood to talk about its nuclear program. But there are growing fears that neighbouring Saudi Arabia will turn to Pakistan for its own bomb if Iran develops nuclear weapons.
The two nations' military officers train together, Saudi Arabia has reportedly bought Pakistani missiles and the Saudi air force was created using Pakistani training, aircraft and pilots.
When Pakistan tested its first nuclear device in 1998 and was placed under sanctions by an outraged US and Europe, 50,000 free barrels of oil a day from Saudi Arabia helped it survive.
Throughout the 1980s and '90s, hundreds of millions of Saudi dollars were poured into Pakistan's efforts to build nuclear weapons, funding as much as 60 per cent of the program.
That money was given, it is widely believed, on an understanding that Pakistan would offer Saudi Arabia nuclear protection, or, at some future date, the chance to buy weapons or the technology to make them.
Europe joined the US last week in imposing sanctions on Iranian oil, after an International Atomic Energy Agency report said Tehran had ''carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device''.
Specifically, Iran has begun work at a new facility - an airstrike-resistant bunker at Fordo, near the city of Qom - seen as a step towards producing weapons-grade uranium. Analysts believe Iran could have a bomb as soon as next year.
The agency's latest delegation to Iran includes two senior weapons experts - Jacques Baute, of France, and Neville Whiting, of South Africa - suggesting Iran may be prepared to address weapons allegations. Saudi Arabia has warned that if its long-standing regional rival succeeds in building a bomb, it wants one too.
Prince Turki al-Faisal, a former head of Saudi intelligence, reportedly warned US and Britain that Iran gaining nuclear arms ''would compel Saudi Arabia … to pursue policies which could lead to untold and possibly dramatic consequences''.
''If our efforts, and the efforts of the world community, fail to convince Israel to shed its weapons of mass destruction and to prevent Iran from obtaining similar weapons, we must, as a duty to our country and people, look into all options we are given, including obtaining these weapons ourselves.''
Most analysts are convinced the Saudis will turn to Pakistan.
''For all its wealth, Saudi Arabia does not have the technical and scientific base to create a nuclear infrastructure,'' Pervez Hoodbhoy, a nuclear physicist at Islamabad's Quaid-e-Azam University, told the Herald. ''Too weak to defend itself and too rich to be left alone, the country has always been surrounded by those who eye its wealth.''
But despite being ''enormously indebted'' to Saudi Arabia, Islamabad cannot simply sell bombs ''off the shelf'' to Riyadh, Professor Hoodbhoy said.
''Deterrence becomes effective once you advertise you have a weapon in hand,'' he said. ''But if a country buys weapons surreptitiously, it cannot flaunt them as a nuclear deterrent because of the obvious question, 'Where did you get them from?'''
Saudi Arabia, a close ally of the US, cannot be seen to be buying nuclear weapons from Pakistan, and Pakistan, already a nuclear pariah, cannot afford to be cast, again, as a proliferator of arms.
A secret weapons program would put Saudi Arabia in breach of a memorandum of understanding with the US that promises American assistance for a civilian nuclear program in return for the Saudis not pursuing ''sensitive nuclear technologies''.
Even with assistance, building nuclear weapons would take Saudi Arabia 10 to 15 years, Professor Hoodbhoy said.
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Pakistan's bomb and Saudi Arabia
Western intelligence officials believe that Pakistan has pledged to provide nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia in a Middle East crisis, but would Islamabad keep its end of the bargain?

The great anxiety underpinning this month's NPT talks in New York, and the deepening crisis over Iranian nuclear aspirations, is the fear that if and when Iran crosses the nuclear threshold, it would trigger an arms race across the Middle East. Israel already has an arsenal of course, but over a dozen other countries in the region have recently announced plans to pursue or explore civilian nuclear energy programmes, in what is seen as a hedge against future threats. But which states, if any, would be prepared to go the whole way?

The Centre for European Studies and the German Marshall Fund of the United States has just held a small conference in Brussels called "Transatlantic test: What should the West do with Iran?" There were a bunch of Nato types there and some diplomats from Europe and the Middle East, and some very interesting talk. What struck me were the relatively sanguine views on the knock-on effect of Iran going nuclear (or achieving break-out capacity).

Putting it briefly: Turkey would not jeopardise the Nato umbrella by going nuclear unilaterally. Egypt has considered its options and decided it cannot afford to go nuclear and risk losing its annual US grant. The biggest worry is Saudi Arabia, which cannot rely on a US nuclear umbrella for reasons of domestic and regional politics.

According to western intelligence sources (the meeting was under Chatham House rules so I am not allowed to be more specific) the Saudi monarchy paid for up to 60% of the Pakistani nuclear programme, and in return has the option to buy a small nuclear arsenal ('five to six warheads) off the shelf if things got tough in the neighbourhood.

There has been much reporting about this alleged deal over recent years, notably by The Guardian back in 2003, when Ewen MacAskill and Ian Traynor wrote about a Saudi strategic review to weigh the kingdom's nuclear options.

A report by Mark Fitzpatrick at the IISS in 2008 on Nuclear Programmes in the Middle East, found the Guardian article was "an accurate representation of what had emerged from the Saudi side during discussions" at a symposium in Britain attended by several members of the Saudi royal family.

The Saudis and the Pakistanis have consistently denied any such deal, but what I heard in Brussels was billed by an official as being from intelligence sources. Whether or not anything has been signed, however, there are real questions on whether Pakistan would deliver when it came to the crunch.

There is a third partner in the relationship, the US, who might have something to say about it and the means to exert pressure to make sure it did not happen. Still, it remains one of the more likely dominoes to fall in a worst-case scenario.

Another interesting point to come out of the Brussels meeting was how difficult it is inside Nato to make policy or even to talk about policy towards Iran, because Turkey will not allow it. That makes it a bit awkward when it comes to framing the alliance's New Strategic Concept later this year.
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Saudi Arabia threatens to go nuclear if Iran does

Saudi Arabia would launch a military nuclear program immediately if Iran successfully developed atomic weapons, The Times of London reported Friday.
While Riyadh signed an agreement with the US in 2008 stating that it would only pursue nuclear power for civil purposes, the Saudi government is likely to abandon the deal if Tehran had a nuclear bomb.
"There is no intention currently to pursue a unilateral military nuclear program but the dynamics will change immediately if the Iranians develop their own nuclear capability," a senior Saudi source said.
"Politically, it would be completely unacceptable to have Iran with a nuclear capability and not the kingdom."
In such an eventuality, Saudi Arabia would start work on a new ballistic missile platform, purchase nuclear warheads from overseas and aim to source uranium to develop weapons-grade material.
Officials in the West believe Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have an understanding in which Islamabad would supply the kingdom with warheads if security in the Gulf was threatened.
A Western official told The Times that Riyadh could have the nuclear warheads in a matter of weeks of approaching Islamabad. Other vendors were also likely to enter into a bidding war if Riyadh indicated that it was seeking nuclear warheads.
Both Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have denied the existence of any such agreement.
Like the US and many other countries in the West, Saudi Arabia believes that Iran is seeking to build nuclear weapons and the kingdom is preparing for a worst-case scenario, the Saudi sources said.
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Pakistan makes two nuclear weapons available to Saudi Arabia
GhauriII.jpg

Saudi Arabia has jumped ahead of Iran by obtaining the use of two Pakistani nuclear bombs or guided missile warheads. DEBKAfile’s Gulf sources believe the weapons are ready for delivery upon royal summons in Pakistan’s nuclear air base at Kamra in the northern district of Attock. Already delivered is a quantity of Pakistan’s Ghauri-II missile with an extended range of 2,300 kilometers. They are tucked away in silos in the underground city of Al-Sulaiyil, south of the capital Riyadh.
At least two giant Saudi transport planes sporting civilian colors and no insignia are parked permanently at Pakistan’s Kamra base with air crews on standby. They will fly the nuclear weapons home upon receipt of a double coded signal from King Abdullah and the Director of General Intelligence Prince Muqrin bin Abdel Aziz. A single signal would not be enough.
In recent weeks, Saudi officials close to their intelligence establishment have been going around security forums in the West and dropping word that the kingdom no longer needs to build its own nuclear arsenal because it has acquired a source of readymade arms to be available on demand. Partial nuclear transparency was approved by Riyadh as part of a campaign to impress on the outside world that Saudi Arabia was in control of its affairs: The succession struggle had been brought under control; the Saudi regime had set its feet on a clearly defined political and military path; and the hawks of the royal house had gained the hand and were now setting the pace.
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Is Pakistan helping the Saudis with a nuclear deterrent?

Worried by Iran's nuclear ambitions, Saudi Arabia is trying to strike a secret deal with Pakistan to buy readymade nuclear weapons, says Amir Mir.

For long, Saudi Arabia has been one of the two foreign hands (the other being the United States) rocking the cradle of Pakistani politics, brokering truce among warring political leaders, providing asylum to those exiled by the military establishment and lavishing funds on a state strapped for cash. But there seems to be a role reversal now keeping in view some recent international media reports about a possible nuclear cooperation between Islamabad [ Images ] and Riyadh.

While highlighting the alleged Pakistan-Saudi nuclear collaboration, the international media has recently reported that worried by Tehran's nuclear ambitions, Riyadh is trying to strike a secret deal with Pakistan to buy readymade nuclear weapons instead of going through the lengthy process of developing its own.

These reports have appeared at a time when the Pakistan army [ Images ] and the royal Saudi land forces are holding a three week-long joint exercise -- Al-Samsaam-IV-2011 -- near the Jhelum district of Punjab [ Images ].

The Pakistan-Saudi Arabia nuclear cooperation was first reported on September 8 (external link) by haaretz.com, an Israeli Web site, followed by another report on September 15 by an American news agency, United Press International.

The haaretz.com report said that concerned by rapid progress being made by Iran towards fulfilling its nuclear ambitions, Saudi Arabia is mulling a secret nuclear cooperation with Pakistan to counter Tehran's military designs in the region.

The report said, although Riyadh has a memorandum of cooperation with the United States over building nuclear reactors for generating electricity, the Saudi royal family is divided over the issue with some heavyweights favouring a secret programme for military uses with Islamabad's help.

Being a Sunni-dominated Muslim-majority State, Pakistan has sought to develop close bilateral ties with Saudi Arabia, the largest country on the Arabian peninsula and home to the two holiest cities of Islam, Mecca and Medina. Both the Islamic countries had faced common enemies in the past successfully and are confronted with yet another common enemy even today -- Al Qaeda [ Images ].

Close geographical proximity, historic trade relations, religious affinity and complementary nature of economic needs have created a strong bondage of trust between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

As early as 1969, the Pakistan air force flew the aircraft of the royal Saudi air force to help fend off an invasion from South Yemen. In the 1970s and 1980s, about 15,000 Pakistani soldiers were stationed in Saudi Arabia to protect the country's oil fields. Against the backdrop of the recent uprisings in the Middle East and the Arab world which led to the ouster of several autocratic rulers of the Muslim world, Pakistan had played a key role in the region by supporting Saudi Arabia to preempt a possible revolt against the Saudi kingdom.

Besides placing two army divisions on standby to help Riyadh should any trouble break out, the Pakistan government helped the Saudi kingdom with the recruitment of thousands of ex-Pakistani military personnel for Bahrain's national guard.

Resultantly, Islamabad has received more financial aid from the Saudis than any other country outside the Arab world. Those in Riyadh who favour the preparation of a nuclear programme for military uses in cooperation with Pakistan include Saudi Defence Minister Sultan Bin Abdul Aziz, and its former intelligence chief, Turki Bin Faisal.

Hence, while progressing towards this end several Pakistani nuclear scientists recently visited Saudi Arabia to meet, among others, Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the head of the Saudi national security council and former ambassador to the United States. Prince Bandar is considered among those in the Saudi royal family who are encouraging the nuclear connection with Pakistan to put his country on a secret path to becoming nuclear.

According to the UPI report, Saudi Arabia is beefing up its military links with Pakistan to counter Iran's expansionist plans which includes acquiring atomic arms from the only Muslim nuclear power or its pledge of nuclear cover.

'Pakistan has become a front-line State for Sunni Islam and is being positioned by its leaders, particularly in the powerful military and intelligence establishments, as a bulwark against Shia Iran and its proxies. Increasingly, Pakistan is rushing to the defence of Saudi Arabia, with whom it has a long had discreet security links,' the UPI report said.

The UPI report added that the concerns about Saudi plans to buy readymade nuclear weapons were raised in June 1994. A Saudi defector, Mohammed Abdalla al-Khilewi, the No 2 official in the Saudi mission to the United Nations in New York, claimed Riyadh had paid up to $5 billion to Iraqi President Saddam Hussein [ Images ] to build it a nuclear weapon.

Al-Khilewi is a former Saudi Arabian diplomat noted for his brazen May 1994 defection in which he issued a declaration on the Saudi embassy letterhead proclaiming King Fahd to be despotic and calling for a redistribution of the country's wealth and power.

An expert in nuclear proliferation, al-Khilewi had produced 13,000 documents to support his claim that Saudi Arabia was engaged in a secret 20-year effort to acquire nuclear weapons, first with Iraq, which Riyadh backed in the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war, and then with Pakistan.

His documents showed that Riyadh helped bankroll Pakistan's clandestine nuclear project and signed a pact that in the event Saudi Arabia was attacked with nuclear weapons, Islamabad would immediately respond against the aggressor with its own nuclear arms.

Well-informed diplomatic circles in Islamabad believe the recent media reports about a possible nuclear cooperation between Riyadh and Islamabad are credible. According to them, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have developed extensive defence and strategic ties to an extent that Riyadh is now secretly working on an alleged nuclear programme with the help of Pakistani experts.

The nuclear partnership between Riyadh and Islamabad is reportedly aimed at providing the kingdom with a nuclear deterrent on short notice if and when needed.

Determined not to fall behind in the Middle East nuclear race, Saudi Arabia has allegedly arranged to make available two Pakistani nuclear bombs or guided missile warheads which are most probably held in Pakistan's nuclear air base at Kamra in the northern district of Attock in Punjab province.

In fact, the fresh reports about the Pakistan-Saudi nuclear deal were prompted by the International Atomic Energy Agency's recent disclosure that Iran has begun to install the centrifuges in its uranium enrichment facility in Natanz.

'The transfer of centrifuges at Natanz (which is the only Iranian enrichment facility in central Iran) to Fordoo is underway, with all necessary safety measures,' said the head of Iran's nuclear weapons programme, Fereydoun Abbassi Davani, in an interview to Iranian television August 22.

The announcement was described as provocation by the United States which is much concerned at the acceleration of uranium enrichment by Tehran. The West's prime area of concern remains the production by Iran of highly enriched uranium to 20 percent, with a technique closer to Tehran's ability to produce enough enriched uranium (over 90 percent) to make a nuclear weapon.

The 2009 revelation by Western intelligence agencies about the secret construction of the Fordoo uranium enrichment plant in violation of UN resolutions had caused a serious crisis between Iran and the international community which eventually led to a strengthening of economic sanctions and Western policies against Iran in July 2010.

In fact, Saudi Arabia is not known to have a nuclear weapons programme. From an official and public standpoint, Saudi Arabia has been an opponent of nuclear weapons in the Middle East, having signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and is a member of the coalition of countries demanding a Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone in the Middle East. However, over the years, there have been media reports of Saudi intent to purchase a nuclear weapon from an outside source.

In 2003, a leaked strategy paper laid out three possible options for the Saudi government: To acquire a nuclear deterrent, to ally with and become protected by an existing nuclear nation, or to try to reach agreement on having a nuclear-free Middle East.

International apprehensions that Saudi Arabia would seek to acquire nuclear weapons rose periodically over the last decade. Saudi Arabia's geopolitical situation gives it strong reasons to consider acquiring nuclear weapons: The current volatile security environment in the Middle East; the growing number of States (particularly Iran and Israel) with weapons of mass destruction in the region; and the Iranian ambition to dominate the region.

International concerns about Saudi nuclear ambitions intensified in 2003 in the wake of revelations about Pakistani nuclear scientist Dr A Q Khan's proliferation activities. The IAEA investigations showed that A Q Khan sold or offered nuclear weapons technology to Saudia and several Middle Eastern states, including Iran, Iraq, Libya and Syria.

The unearthing of the blackmarket nuclear technology network increased international suspicions that Dr Khan had developed ties with Riyadh, which has the capability to pay for all kinds of nuclear-related services. Even before the revelations about Dr Khan's activities, concerns about Pak-Saudi nuclear cooperation persisted, largely due to strengthened cooperation between the two Islamic countries.

In particular, frequent high-level visits of Saudi and Pakistani officials over the past several years raised serious questions about the possibility of clandestine Pakistan-Saudi nuclear cooperation.

In May 1999, a Saudi Arabian team, headed by Defence Minister Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, visited Pakistan's highly restricted uranium enrichment and missile assembly factory.

The Saudi prince toured the Kahuta uranium enrichment plant and an adjacent factory with then Pakistan prime minister Nawaz Sharif [ Images ] where the Ghauri missile was being assembled and was briefed by Dr Khan.

A few months later, Khan traveled to Saudi Arabia [in November 1999] ostensibly to attend a symposium on 'Information Sources on the Islamic World'. The same month, Dr Saleh al-Athel, president, King Abdul Aziz City for Science and Technology, visited Pakistan to work out details for cooperation in the fields of engineering, electronics and computer science.

In 2003, President General Pervez Musharraf [ Images ] paid a visit to Saudi Arabia, and former Pakistani prime minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali visited the kingdom twice. But the US had warned Pakistan for the first time in December 2003 against providing nuclear assistance to Riyadh.

International concerns over Pak-Saudi nuclear assistance intensified after the October 2003 visit of Saudi Arabia's then de facto ruler Crown Prince, now King, Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz to Pakistan.

During that visit, American intelligence circles alleged, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia had concluded a clandestine agreement on nuclear cooperation that was meant to provide the Saudis with nuclear-weapons technology in exchange for cheap oil.

However, in 2005, the United Stated claimed to have acquired fresh evidence, suggesting that a broader government-to-government Pakistan-Saudi atomic collaboration is still on. Subsequent news reports in American media said that a chartered Saudi C-130 Hercules plane made scores of trips between Dhahran military base and several Pakistani cities, including Lahore [ Images ] and Karachi, between October 2003 and October 2004, and thereafter, considerable contacts were reported between Pakistani and Saudi Arabian nuclear scientists.

Between October 2004 and January 2005, under the cover of Haj, several Pakistani scientists visited Riyadh, and remained missing from their designated hotels for 15 to 20 days.

The intimacy between Islamabad and Riyadh has been exceptional and it is not without significance that the first foreign tour of Musharraf, who ousted Sharif in October 1999, was to Saudi Arabia. Moreover, Sharif himself, his younger brother Shahbaz Sharif and their families took asylum in Saudi Arabia after a secret exile deal between Musharraf and Sharif, in which Riyadh had played a key role.

According to US intelligence findings, as reported by international media, during Nawaz Sharif's second prime ministerial tenure, Saudi Arabia had been involved in funding Islamabad's missile and nuclear program purchases from China, as a result of which Pakistan became a nuclear weapon-producing and proliferating State.

For decades, the Western media and their intelligence agencies have linked Pakistan's dishonoured nuclear scientist Dr Khan and the ISI, to nuclear-technology transfers, and it was hard to credit the idea that the successive governments Dr Khan served had been oblivious of these activities.

In the post-9/11 era, analysts continue to express fears about the possibility of extremist Islamic groups like Al Qaeda gaining access to Pakistan's nuclear weapons or fissile or radioactive materials.

Under these conditions, Islamabad's pursuing any clandestine nuclear deal with Riyadh can only aggravate such risks and international concerns.
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Its not a secret any more.
 
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... They will also be built by foreigners...

^^

Link previous post “Kingdom, China ink nuclear cooperation pact”:

Translation help?

"Google Translate"

Link:Google Translate



http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ink-nuclear-cooperation-pact.html#post2731651

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ink-nuclear-cooperation-pact.html#post2731694

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ink-nuclear-cooperation-pact.html#post2731727

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ink-nuclear-cooperation-pact.html#post2786204



... and the fuel will never see Saudi hands.

^^


Saudi may enrich uranium for nuclear power plants


By Amena Bakr on Wednesday, 16 June 2010

Top oil exporter Saudi Arabia may mine and enrich uranium to fuel power plants if it embarks on a civilian nuclear energy programme, a consultant preparing a draft nuclear strategy for the kingdom said on Wednesday.

Saudi Arabia would want to play a role in as many of the stages of generating nuclear power as possible eventually, said David Cox, president for energy at the UK branch of Finnish management consultancy Poyry.

He said: "Enrichment could happen there and the same with mining uranium...," Cox said in a telephone interview with Reuters. "But outsourcing will happen initially."

Earlier this month, Saudi's King Abdullah City for Atomic and Renewable Energy appointed Poyry to help prepare a draft of the national vision and high level strategy in the area of nuclear and renewable energy.

The kingdom instructed Poyry to evaluate the economic and technical feasibility of its involvement in all stages of the nuclear power generation cycle, Cox said.

He added: "They want to be involved in as many aspects as possible and our study is to evaluate what part of it is possible at a reasonable economic cost."

Cox said: "The study we are conducting right now will be completed in a couple of months and includes an overall strategy from technical, economical and institutional dimensions for starting the development of nuclear plants."

Saudi neighbour the UAE became the first country in the Gulf Arab region to embark upon a nuclear power generation programme last year.

But the UAE decided from an early stage to import fuel for the plants, as it sought to reassure the international community it had no military intentions with its programme.

The UAE received the blessing of ally the United States for its programme. The two signed a nuclear cooperation agreement and US firms bid for contracts to build its nuclear fleet.

When the Gulf Cooperation Council, a loose grouping of Gulf Arab states, announced in 2006 it was studying developing a joint nuclear energy programme, the announcement raised concern of a regional arms race between the bloc and Iran.

While the region sits on some of the world's largest oil and gas reserves, it has struggled to keep up with rapidly rising power demand as petrodollars have fuelled a Gulf wide economic boom.

Some of the world's largest oil exporters burn oil for power at home, when they would rather export the fuel to boost revenues.

Saudi Arabia saw power demand grow by more than 8 percent last year. Total demand was expected to grow to more than 60,000 megawatt (MW) by 2020 from around 40,000 MW current capacity.

Without reducing the rate of energy consumption growth, the kingdom could see oil available for export drop some 3 million barrels per day (bpd) to less than 7 million bpd in 2028, Khalid al Falih, the chief executive of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, said earlier this year.

Middle East and North Africa countries including Saudi Arabia have potential for a large number of uranium deposits, according to recent research by the Jackson School of Geosciences University of Texas.

Those could supply the raw material for nuclear power generation.

Any programme the kingdom embarks upon would take years to complete, said Philipp Elkuch, president of the nuclear energy business group at Poyry.

Speaking to Reuters, Elkuch said: "Nuclear energy in Saudi is really a long term strategy that can span 10-20 years from now, while renewable energy can be deployed much faster."

Saudi Arabia and the United States signed a nuclear cooperation deal in 2008. France said in 2009 it was close to finalising a civilian nuclear agreement. The kingdom has also talked to Russia about nuclear cooperation.

Any programme would likely be similar in value and size to the UAE's plan, Elkuch said. The UAE's deal for South Korean companies to build a fleet of four nuclear reactors was worth up to $40 billion.

Elkuch said: "Nuclear energy is an expensive option, and although there is no cost estimate for Saudi they would probably have to invest a similar amount to the UAE."


(Reuters)


How Soon Will Saudi Arabia Turn to Nuclear Energy?

Article by James Finch

While a growing number of countries have announced their civilian nuclear energy ambitions over the past twelve months, no other country is likely to have more of a psychological impact on the nuclear energy picture than Saudi Arabia . We believe the Kingdoms natural gas and water problems will lead them to nuclear, sooner rather than later, probably as early as this year.

After our interview with Kevin Bambrough, which resulted in the widely read article, Explosion in Nuclear Energy Demand Coming, we began more deeply researching Bambroughs conclusion. He believes:

The overwhelming growth in nuclear energy will continue to drive the uranium bull market much higher than is suspected. He believes the uranium renaissance has gone beyond the envelope of just a mining inventory shortage. We researched this further during the course of our investigation into uranium and geopolitics. We were surprised by what we discovered, and continue to be stunned by how accurate Mr. Bambroughs forecast is likely to play out. We included the special sub-section, which follows, in our soon-to-be-published, A Practical Investors Guide to Uranium Stocks. Below is a sneak preview.

An April 2006 UPI news item confirmed what many have long believed. It wont be long before Saudi Arabia launches a nuclear project. Kuwaiti researcher Abdullah al-Nufaisi told seminar attendees in Qatar that Saudi Arabia is preparing a nuclear program. He said the government was being urged to launch a nuclear project by Saudi scientists, but had not yet received the blessing by the royal family. Social, not energy, issues could help the Saudi royals embark on a large-scale nuclear program.

Of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabias 24 million subjects, more than 40 percent are under 18 years of age. While still manageable, the countrys infrastructure is not prepared to deal with its explosive population growth. The two biggest problems facing Saudi Arabia are potential water and electricity shortages. True, its super oilfields may also have peaked in production and might move into tertiary recovery, but that is unknown.

As reported in the October 14, 2004 issue of Arab Oil and Gas, the Saudis lag well behind Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates in per capita energy consumption. The rate of natural gas consumption, which produces Saudis electricity, increased less than Egypt and Syria. Total energy consumption dropped by 3.5 percent in 1999 and 2000.

The internationally heralded Gas Initiative of 1998 was the Kingdoms attempt to lure major western oil companies back into the country to help develop its natural gas reserves. After major oil companies spent $100 million in due diligence to evaluate the Saudi natural gas reserves, the initiative quietly dropped off the worlds radar screen.

A Shell Oil executive, whose company is exploring for gas in the countrys Empty Quarter, told Bloomberg Daily Energy News that this was a high-risk venture with a low probability of finding sizeable reserves. In Matthew Simmons Twilight of the Desert, he repeated what he was told by an anonymous senior oil executive, The reservoirs are crummy.

The Saudis need water and electricity to match their population growth. Nuclear energy is likely to be the solution to both those problems. Continued dependence upon natural gas may prove a fatal economic and social error for the royal family. Our research forecasts the Saudis should announce a large-scale civilian nuclear energy program in the near future.

Lets discuss the water problem first. In a 2002 story reported in the Oil & Gas Journal, Saudi Arabias 30 desalination plants produce about 21 percent of the worlds total desalinated water production. Nearly 70 percent of the local water drunk in cities comes from desalinated sea water. As the population grows, Saudi Arabia may spend another £40 billion to build more desalination plants.

Half of the worlds desalination plants are in the Middle East. Most are powered by fossil fuels, especially natural gas. Converting sea water to potable water is energy intensive. The commonly used desalination method of multi-stage flash (MSF) distillation with steam requires heat at 70 to 130 degrees centigrade and consumes up to 200 kilowatt hours of electricity for every cubic meter of water (about 264 gallons). MSF is the most popular technology, but some are turning to reverse osmosis (RO). RO consumes about 6 kilowatt hours of electricity for every cubic meter of water.

Desalination is very expensive. The cost to generate this electricity through natural gas explains why Saudi Arabia spends about £4 billion in operating and annual maintenance costs.

There are numerous precedents in combining water desalination with nuclear energy for electrical generation. The World Nuclear Association highlights the BN-350 fast reactor in Kazakhstan, which has produced 135 MWe of electricity and 80,000 cubic meters per day of potable water for nearly 30 years. In Japan, ten desalination facilities are linked to pressurized water reactors producing electricity. The International Atomic Energy Agency is working closely with about 20 countries to implement dual-use nuclear reactors, which would also desalinate water.

According to the World Nuclear Associations website, Small and medium sized nuclear reactors are suitable for desalination, often with cogeneration of electricity using low-pressure steam from the turbine and hot sea water feed from the final cooling system. The main opportunities for nuclear plants have been identified as the 80-100,000 m3/day and 200-500,000 m3/day ranges.

China is reviewing the feasibility of a nuclear seawater desalination plant in the Yantai area. Russia has advanced a nuclear desalination project with barge-mounted marine reactors using Canadian reverse-osmosis technology. India has begun operating a nuclear desalination demonstration plant at the Madras Atomic Power Station in southeast India. Another one may soon follow in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu, which perpetually suffers from water shortages. Pakistan continues its efforts to set up a demonstration desalination plant. South Korea has developed a small nuclear reactor design for cogeneration of electricity and water. It may first be tested on Madura Island in Indonesia. Argentina has also developed a small nuclear reactor design for electricity cogeneration or solely for desalination.

The Saudis have investigated dual use for nearly thirty years. Since 1978, Saudi scientists have studied nuclear desalination plants in Kazakhstan and Japan. Both studies positively assessed the feasibility of bringing the first dual-use nuclear reactor in Saudi Arabia. Since the mid 1980s, scientists and researchers at the Saudis Nuclear Engineering Department at King Abdulaziz University, the College of Engineering at the University of Riyadh, the Chemical Engineering Department of King Saud University, and the Atomic Energy Research Institute have researched and evaluated nuclear desalination. Saudi scientists presented their paper, entitled, Role of Nuclear Desalination in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, at the First International Conference on Nuclear Desalination in Morocco in October 2002.

The country possesses a tandetron accelerator and a cyclotron capable of isotope production for medical purposes. Saudis nuclear scientists have been involved with many countries to help their country develop a bonafide nuclear energy program. In late March 2006, a German magazine reported Saudi Arabia has been secretly working on a nuclear program with help from Pakistani scientists. Ironically, many believe Saudi Arabia helped finance Pakistans nuclear program. Because Saudi scientists lack the proven experience of the entire nuclear fuel cycle, Pakistans expertise, over the past decade, could help accelerate the Kingdoms pursuit of a civilian nuclear program.

While lacking proven uranium deposits, the countrys Tabuk region has low-grade amounts of uranium and thorium. However, Saudi Arabia has significant phosphate deposits, which some believe could be exploited. The countrys two largest deposits reportedly measure about 750 million metric tons, averaging between 19 and 21 percent P2O5. Mined by the Saudi Arabian Mining Company and the Saudi Basic Industrial Corporation, fertilizer plants at the Al Jubail Industrial City produce about 4.5 metric tons of P2O5 annually. While extraction of uranium from phosphates can be an expensive proposition, the phosphates could provide a ready supply of uranium for the countrys nuclear desalination plants. Then, it would be a matter of uranium enrichment, of which both the Russians and the French would be scrambling to provide the Kingdom.

While the Saudi program many not directly impact world uranium prices, the Kingdoms decision to advance its nuclear program, beyond the research and medical stage, would signal the entire world that nuclear energy programs will be a primary growth sector for the next fifty to one hundred years.

Should the Saudis also commence desalination projects using dual-use nuclear reactors, this could change the entire landscape of the water situation for the Middle East as well as Africa. And it would most likely spark a significant stampede of the Kingdoms neighbors into the global nuclear renaissance.


2007 by StockInterview, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

James Finch contributes to StockInterview.com and other publications. StockInterview’s “Investing in the Great Uranium Bull Market” has become the most popular book ever published for uranium mining stock investors.




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Saudi Arabia



SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute) July 2004.


Nuclear Mining and Milling and Ore Processing

Saudi Arabia does not have identified uranium deposits. However, low-level amounts of uranium and thorium have been discovered in the Tabuk basin, which is located in the central and northwestern parts of the Kingdom. To date, these areas have not been mined. There are however, considerable deposits of phosphates located in Saudi Arabia, which have been mined and exploited. Although the cost of recovering uranium from phosphoric acid is generally higher than uranium market price, the benefits of exploiting a domestic uranium supply far outweigh the political risks associated with purchasing uranium from abroad.


Known deposits:

- Al Jalamid area (five phosphate deposits measure 213 million metric tons (mt) averaging 21 percent P2O5)

- Umm Wu’al area (four phosphate deposits comprise 537 million mt of ore averaging 19 percent P2O5)

- Al Amud area (contains 24 Mt averaging 21.03 percent P2O5)

- Sanam area (contains 23 million mt averaging 17 percent P2O5)

State-owned Ma’aden (Saudi Arabian Mining Company) and SABIC (Saudi Basic Industrial Corporation) are active in the Jalamid area. Phosphates are mined there and processed at fertilizer plants based at the Al Jubail Industrial City. The plants, particularly the Jubail DAP fertilizer plant and the Ibn Al-Baytar fertilizer plant produce approximately 4.5 million mt/year of 32% P2O5, and 400,000 mt/year of DAP (diammonium phosphate) and 100,000 mt/year of GTSP (granular triple super phosphate), respectively.



Another correlation:

Jordan is estimated to have around 140,000 tonnes in its uranium reserves plus a further 59,000 tonnes in phosphate deposits.
 
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I think we should build nukes but not know , after we have our nuclear plants , after we get alot of nucluar knowledge , i think we should start making it in 2023 , 100th aniversary Turkish republic when our economy will be top 10
 
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Turkey has been conducting nuclear research since 1962

Çekmece Nuclear Research and Training Centre

Sarayköy Nuclear Research and Training Centre

I think we don't need nuclear weapons... Nuclear weapons will bring humanity to the end of the World. :undecided:
 
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Which would be a very good thing since western rogue states would never again be able to invade the countries of the region.

Although I am with you, I can not cover my concerns about instabilities in the region. The things happen fast in middle east and the fact is Muslims have had very bad repetition of killing each other. What dose happen in case an extremist gets power in the region? Saddam had chemical weapons and used them. If he had nuc ... most probably I am not typing now!
 
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Although I am with you, I can not cover my concerns about instabilities in the region. The things happen fast in middle east and the fact is Muslims have had very bad repetition of killing each other. What dose happen in case an extremist gets power in the region? Saddam had chemical weapons and used them. If he had nuc ... most probably I am not typing now!
If several ME countries had nuclear weapons, then nobody could threaten the other. Besides, I really don't think we're crazy to nuke each other. When was the last time that Turkey and Iran attacked each other by the way? Hundreds of years ago. I actually believe this would STABILIZE The Middle East.
 
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Although I am with you, I can not cover my concerns about instabilities in the region. The things happen fast in middle east and the fact is Muslims have had very bad repetition of killing each other. What dose happen in case an extremist gets power in the region? Saddam had chemical weapons and used them. If he had nuc ... most probably I am not typing now!

saddam had chemical weapons, because the west allowed him to have those weapons. Without American approval, no country in the region can just do what it wants, unless they go Iran's route. Iran is lucky to have a very large pool of man power and educated mass that can help the country survive under technological blockade, no arab country has this. On top of that, our industrial base can provide almost everything the country requires, albeit in many cases quality and efficiency is questionable, but that's of secondary importance. We're no China or Russia by any stretch of the imagination, but we have the bare minimum of technology, industrial base, man power... that is needed to survive and grow under a full tech and economic blockade.

In the region, you have countries with the man power, but none of the oil and gas to help the country during harsh sanctions. You have countries that have tons of oil, but absolutely no clue about anything else. You have countries that have neither.

So you don't have to worry. The Americans have on countless occasions helped the Iranian nation in the long-run. The sanctions made Iran semi-industrialized. The Iraq invasion helped Iran's economy and took saddam out of the picture which allowed Iran to have a strong ally in the form of a democratic Iraq. They destroyed the biggest menace to humanity in Afghanistan: the taliban, the same wahabi organization that considers shia muslims as evil beings. Now they're helping Iran get ahead by controlling the happenings of regional countries.
 
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If several ME countries had nuclear weapons, then nobody could threaten the other. Besides, I really don't think we're crazy to nuke each other. When was the last time that Turkey and Iran attacked each other by the way? Hundreds of years ago. I actually believe this would STABILIZE The Middle East.

Please focus on the word "unstable" my friend. ME is larger than Turkey + Iran. Turkey has some nuc at it's inventory.
 
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Please focus on the word "unstable" my friend. ME is larger than Turkey + Iran. Turkey has some nuc at it's inventory.
Turkey has no nukes in its inventory, it's under the US nuclear umbrella but Turkey is not allowed to use nukes unless Uncle Sam allows that.
 
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saddam had chemical weapons, because the west allowed him to have those weapons. Without American approval, no country in the region can just do what it wants, unless they go Iran's route. Iran is lucky to have a very large pool of man power and educated mass that can help the country survive under technological blockade, no arab country has this. On top of that, our industrial base can provide almost everything the country requires, albeit in many cases quality and efficiency is questionable, but that's of secondary importance. We're no China or Russia by any stretch of the imagination, but we have the bare minimum of technology, industrial base, man power... that is needed to survive and grow under a full tech and economic blockade.

In the region, you have countries with the man power, but none of the oil and gas to help the country during harsh sanctions. You have countries that have tons of oil, but absolutely no clue about anything else. You have countries that have neither.

So you don't have to worry. The Americans have on countless occasions helped the Iranian nation in the long-run. The sanctions made Iran semi-industrialized. The Iraq invasion helped Iran's economy and took saddam out of the picture which allowed Iran to have a strong ally in the form of a democratic Iraq. They destroyed the biggest menace to humanity in Afghanistan: the taliban, the same wahabi organization that considers shia muslims as evil beings. Now they're helping Iran get ahead by controlling the happenings of regional countries.

Thanks for your attention & the extensive reply although I think as a result of my unclear question, I received some unrelated reply. I restate the question by an example. Egypt at current situation is a bit unstable. Please imagine a scenario in which a group with the most extreme attitudes rules the country (similar to that happened in Afghanistan). I do not think providing them with nuclear weapons could reduce the risks by then.

@ Ir.Tab.

Bro, who in his right mind would dare attack Turkey or Iran? Saudi Arabia? :D

:) No, None of the countries! why the land of the prophet Mohammad. Please read post #60.
 
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