Egypt Reportedly Considering Purchasing More Rafales

[The SC]

A year after completing an order for the Dassault Rafale, Cairo has reportedly reentered negotiations with France regarding the procurement of additional fighter jets. On June 15, La Tribune reported that Egypt is in discussions with Dassault Aviation for the acquisition of 12 more Rafales.

La Tribune reports that some sources believe it is possible a contract could be reached before the end of this year, while others are more cautious about the timeframe for completion. As of yet, no side has commented on the reports of ongoing negotiations.

Egypt and France formally signed an agreement worth 5.2 billion euros on the acquisition of 24 Rafales, as well as MBDA missiles and a FREMM naval vessel, in February 2015. Of the 24 Rafales, 16 are two-seater Rafale DMs, while the remaining eight are single-seater Rafale EMs.

The first batch of three jets – reportedly from French inventory – arrived later in 2015, in July, and a second batch of three arrived in January of this year. These shipments marked the first export of the Rafale jet. Ahead of the deliveries, Egyptian pilots and maintenance crews trained in France on the operation of the systems.

According to IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, the Rafales are armed with AASM HAMMER air-to-ground missiles, the two versions of MBDA's MICA short- and beyond visual range air-to-air missiles, Exocet AM39 anti-ship missiles, and the SCALP long-range standoff cruise missile.

The agreement reached with France included an option for 12 more Rafales, which forms the basis of the framework for the current negotiations reported by La Tribune. A follow-on contract would be good news for Dassault Aviation, which wants to sell Rafales to India and Malaysia.

Similar to the initial order, it is unclear how Cairo will opt to finance a follow-on order. As noted alongside the announcement of the first sale in February 2015, experts speculated that it was possible France or Gulf countries provided loans to Egypt to aid in the acquisition. Egypt make seek a similar arrangement for an additional order of Rafales, though details of financing remain limited.

Alongside the Rafale, Cairo has negotiated with Russia for the acquisition of other fighter jets. Egypt was reported to have purchased 46 MiG-29s in 2015 under a $2 billion deal. MiG CEO Sergei Korotkov has also stated that MiG is ready to supply Egypt with MiG-35s.

Rumors continue to abound that Egypt is also buying Russian Su-35s. These rumors were recently fueled by an Egyptian television report that mentioned Cairo was purchasing 29 unspecified Sukhoi military aircraft, though this could be easily have been a reference to another system, such as the Su-30SM, and not the Su-35.

The fighter jet acquisitions are part of a larger Egyptian program of procuring new military systems to boost its conventional deterrent power and improve the military's counterinsurgency efforts. Under President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, Egypt has purchased a frigate, corvettes, naval helicopter carrier vessels, fighter jets, helicopters, and missiles.

http://www.conflict-news.com/articles/egypt-reportedly-considering-purchasing-more-rafales

 

[The SC]

Egypt needs to replace 150 fighter aircrafts in the next 4-5 years.. Till now it has purchased 24 Rafale and 52 Mig-35/M-M2 advanced and most likely 29 SU-35. that makes it a total of 105, so it is still missing 45 replacements..There are also some old F-16s to be replaced and some to be upgraded to Blk52 and V.. So Egypt will still need another 100 fighter planes to have an up to date airforce..
Pakistan/China FC-1/JF/17 was on the table for a while, so there is still a good possibility for a JV and local production, mostly with the upcoming JF-17B and Blk 3..
And there is also the possibility of a JV/co-production of the Chinese stealth fighter J-31..

What are your thoughts on this guys, and which fighter(s) do you think will best fulfil the Egyptian air force needs for now and the near future?

 

[StraightShooter]

so more delays for indian RAFALEs.

 

[The SC]

so more delays for indian RAFALEs.

Not really, since France intends to step up its production very significantly.. all deliveries should be on time..
Even if Egypt signs a deal for 12 more, Qatar also is waiting and Malaysia will most likely buy the Rafale too.. So every country will get its Rafale on time, depending on when they have signed a deal..

 

[StraightShooter]

depending on when they have signed a deal..

this is the worry.

 

[The SC]

this is the worry.

Why?
France was producing 24 or less a year, and now they are projecting to make 24 a month!

 

[StraightShooter]

Why?
France was producing 24 or less a year, and now they are projecting to make 24 a month!

24 per month would be mean DA would fulfill all the orders for Egypt, Qatar and India in an matter of 4 months.

 

[The SC]

24 per month would be mean DA would fulfill all the orders for Egypt, Qatar and India in an matter of 4 months.

It has its own orders too, and there are testings of every plane that comes out of the production line, that alone takes more than 3 months per plane!

 

[MastanKhan]

Why?
France was producing 24 or less a year, and now they are projecting to make 24 a month!

Hi,

I think that they had come down to 1 in two months or 1 in one month---and they were barely keeping the techs and engineers active---.

As for Egypt---I do not know what they are going to do with their F16's---they are not BVR capable---so what might be the purpose for upgrades---.

 

[The SC]

Hi,

I think that they had come down to 1 in two months or 1 in one month---and they were barely keeping the techs and engineers active---.

As for Egypt---I do not know what they are going to do with their F16's---they are not BVR capable---so what might be the purpose for upgrades---.

Hi dear,

Egypt's F-16s are BVR capable but old tech, max range is 60 km, they are negotiating upgrades of a portion to the V block with its weapons.. remember that this is Trump's white house now, and he has promised Sissi to help Egypt financially as well as militarily and maintain the aid packages.. there won't be any objections from Usrael in the horizon, since it got the F-35 and it is its the sole operator in the middle east..
I guess most of the Egyptian f-16s will be dedicated to air defence and ground support.. and the few Block 52 and the coming Blk V will be for deep strikes and some multirole tasks..
As for Rafale, France is doing everything to be on time for the deliveries, but with the testing of individual planes that takes quite some time, there might be delays.. what the Heck, the Saudi F-15s are 4 to 5 years beyond the scheduled delivery time.. So we never know for sure..

 

[Modzi]

well, lots of dice are in this deal, first and most important, where are Saudi's in this deal. as KSA have invested a lot more in Egypt than i think even Egypt herself. I have no idea why Egypt is making all of its airforce based on one system. somebody, please tell them there is a thing called "portfolio diversification". simple business routine.

 

[The SC]

well, lots of dice are in this deal, first and most important, where are Saudi's in this deal. as KSA have invested a lot more in Egypt than i think even Egypt herself. I have no idea why Egypt is making all of its airforce based on one system. somebody, please tell them there is a thing called "portfolio diversification". simple business routine.

What you mean by one system?
Egypt is operating F-16s, Mirages, Migs and Rafale, Su-35 is in line!
Saudis invested $8 billion in Egypt economy, and Egypt paid its deals on its own, KSA and UAE might have guaranteed the loans for the deals but even that is mere speculation..

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

why is Pakistan ready to sell it's best technology to every one??
I think we would sell only export version, which will be different from what we are using.

 

[Engr. Sajjad_Hussain]

I think f16 block 52 or 60 could be a better option

 

[Gomig-21]

I think it will be excellent if Egypt signs the contract for the additional 12 Rafales to make the total 36, which technically gives the EAF 3 squadrons. Larger airforces will have around 18 to 20, possibly 24 fighters per squadron but Egypt seems to designate 12 per, hence the original order of 24 and now an additional 12 (if it goes through.)

I do think the production of 24 complete air-frames per month from Rafale is extremely ambitious, The SC, TBH. It seems the UAE might also get in on a Rafale order. That would really put the strain on them. Is that even possible for a number like that? How ironic that for 20+ years or so, the French couldn't get anyone to buy this fighter jet and now.....? It might have a hard time keeping up with orders! Thanks to Egypt despite India choosing it before. I think it's pretty obvious that the deal with Egypt blew the doors wide open for Rafale.

I would also be a bit cautious about the Su-35 or 30 being acquired since it's only a rumor and those can be abound in Egypt lol. "29" units is also a very odd number. Even if there is any truth to it, I'm not convinced it would be a better option for the EAF. Despite how terrific that aircraft is. In this day and age there needs to be more emphasis on procuring fighters with lesser RCS, and the Su-35 is a very large aircraft. It would make sense for countries who already operate a line of Su's, such as Algeria or Malaysia. But for Egypt? After already committing to 50+/- MiG-35's? Why add a different and much larger aircraft to one's airforce? I would invest in more Rafales in the F4 standard. At least that has better RCS than the Su-35 and is already part of the inventory and a superb fighter. It just makes more sense. The only good thing I see coming from the Su-35 is it's Irbis radar and weapon's payload. That might have a fighting chance against something like the F-35 but IMO, the Su-35 would be spotted a lot sooner than the other. If it's mission is not geared for air superiority, then why purchase it? Egypt would be much better off sticking with the Rafale or increasing its MiG-35's for good, rugged and functional 4+ GEN BVR fighters or go in the way of UACV's as that is the future. At this point, adding another airframe such as the Su-35 doesn't make much sense. I know I'll be in the minority with this thinking because of the majority's infatuation with the Su-30/35 family of fighters. I'm a big fan as well, but you have to look at this particular situation from a pragmatic standpoint.

The AIM-7 Sparrow on the Egyptian F-16's is really old tech. It's probably the least effective BVR missile out there. I have my doubts on the V-upgrade that it will include any BVR upgrades to Egyptian F-16's. That would mean the software and hardware upgrade and an inventory of what, 500+/- AIM 120 AMRAAM's? I believe that was the quantity Pakistan got for a lesser overall quantity of F-16s, so it would have to be at least that many. In that case, I strongly think that even if Israel is getting the F-35, they will most certainly scream about that. They're not known to be passive about these kinds of things and Trump's indication to leave the Palestinian issue up to Netanyahu and the Israelis is proof that he will be just like all the other US presidents when it comes to bowing down to Israel. I hope I'm proven wrong, but it seems very unlikely. If you think about it, how was Egypt able to get into the modern BVR club? It had to go somewhere else besides the US where Israel's influence is not as strong. I bet the Israelis are already alarmed at this incredible surge of Egyptian military equipment. We're even yet to see what the A-A weapon's package for the MiG-35's will be.