Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

[Developereo]

The only democratic avenue left was an all out violent reaction,

Not at all. Egypt's Constitution allows for impeachment proceedings.

Egypt's Constitutional Court looking to impeach Morsi - reports ? RT News

In which the military retains no extra power

Summarily deposing an elected official is a coup, no matter how you slice it. Some people are claiming that the military is going around arresting members of the MB. Sounds like the military has gotten into the business of deciding who can and cannot serve.

BTW don't you think it's a bit ironic that Morasi was himself installed as president following an election the Military organized and thanks to a military coup against Mobarak (which was also instigated by the masses)?

The military simply stayed out of it. Mubarak was not an elected official, so there was no concept of upholding democracy.

So about 1 of every 5 Egyptians is a tantrum throwing mob? how about the additional tens of millions who have supported this from their homes?

Even assuming your numbers are correct -- and I doubt it simply because the protesters are pro-West, educated elite who are active on the internet and media -- that still leaves the majority of Egyptians who did not ask for a coup.

 

[Kompromat]

Brotherhood supporters amassing in Cairo??

 

[iranigirl2]

African Union suspends Egypt


African Union suspends Egypt - CNN.com

 

[Pak-Americanos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdZLBy5zH20

According to PISSTV:

Sheikh Hassan Shehata was a prominent Shia cleric who had thousands of followers due to his moderate views and denouncement of radical and extremist movements in Egypt. He was well known for telling people about the nature of extremist groups and radical thoughts which are common in Egypt due to powerful presence of Salafist groups.

PressTV - Memorial ceremony held for Sheikh Shehata

 

[Solomon2]

The Jewish victimhood parade never ends, does it? The Egyptian politics is about Egypt, not Jews.

You missed it; it's not about victimhood. Rather, if your hatred of Jews over-rides individual, human, and civil rights - which is what Jew-hatred does - than you can hardly be trusted to implement the individual and civil rights necessary as the foundation for democratic governance.

 

[MooshMoosh]

 

[KingMamba]

Aren't they?

GDP per capita (current US$) | Data | Table

Yes they do excel in some areas versus Pakistan but if you knew what they meant by the signs you would know what I mean.

 

[Developereo]

You missed it; it's not about victimhood. Rather, if your hatred of Jews over-rides individual, human, and civil rights - which is what Jew-hatred does - than you can hardly be trusted to implement the individual and civil rights necessary as the foundation for democratic governance.

Oh, I missed nothing.

The insinuation is that, if someone doesn't support Israel, they can't possibly be true to liberal principles.

The reason I commented is because YOU highlighted that line out of the whole article.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

@Developereo

Not at all. Egypt's Constitution allows for impeachment proceedings.

Yes, but it can only be done by the House of the representatives. As I have said before democracy does not mean giving absolute power to a group of people for a 4 year term. Ultimately Democracy is the rule of the people, representatives are there to represent and they draw their legitimacy from the people. If the majority of the people decide that those representatives use their power against the will of the people then it is the representatives who are in the wrong, not the people.

In effect the millions of Egyptians had no farther legal way to voice their concerns. A true democratic leader should have respected the millions of citizens on the streets and should have addressed them in some way, instead of ignoring them. Morsi may have been democratically elected, but he did not believe in democracy, the rule of the people.

Article 152:
The President of the Republic is impeached for felony or high treason if at least a third of the members of the House of Representatives sponsor a motion of impeachment, and the House passes the motion with a two-thirds majority.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Summarily deposing an elected official is a coup, no matter how you slice it. Some people are claiming that the military is going around arresting members of the MB. Sounds like the military has gotten into the business of deciding who can and cannot serve.

Yes, it is a coupe. It might have been done mostly by the military but it was supported by the people, you would probably agree that calling this a military coup is over simplistic and doesn't really represent the nature of what happened, or would you ignore about 15 mil citizens on the streets?

We already had a discussion over arrests/detentions. On this issue I prefer to wait and see what will follow. should they remain in custody towards the elections, or falsely charged I would agree. It is possible they were brought temporarily in as a mean to keep the backlash violence down, which is a whole different matter.

The military simply stayed out of it. Mubarak was not an elected official, so there was no concept of upholding democracy.

Not really,

The military junta, headed by effective head of state Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, announced on 13 February that the constitution would be suspended, both houses of parliament dissolved, and that the military would rule for six months until elections could be held.

Sounds familiar?

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Even assuming your numbers are correct -- and I doubt it simply because the protesters are pro-West, educated elite who are active on the internet and media

I am not 100% sure on the numbers too, though some sources have claimed up to 30 mil protesters, which is about 1/3 of the population so I was rather conservative. Any sources that the protesters are all pro-west educated elite?
It seems that the protesters are from every part of the Egyptians society perhaps bar the very religious.

 

[Solomon2]

The insinuation is that, if someone doesn't support Israel, they can't possibly be true to liberal principles.

Red herring. So I conclude you agree 100% with my assessment.

 

[Developereo]

Yes, but it can only be done by the House of the representatives.

Bingo!
There was legal recourse -- the military did not have to intervene.

As I have said before democracy does not mean giving absolute power to a group of people for a 4 year term. Ultimately Democracy is the rule of the people, representatives are there to represent and they draw their legitimacy from the people. If the majority of the people decide that those representatives use their power against the will of the people than it is the representatives who are in the wrong, not the people.

Of course I accept that democracy is not a blank check but the recourse is not to throw loud tantrums until the guy gets ousted. You can protest and let the supreme court (or appropriate authority) take action.

In effect the millions of Egyptians had no farther legal way to voice their concerns. A true democratic leader should have respected the millions of citizens on the streets and should have addressed them in some way, instead of ignoring them. Morsi may have been democratically elected, but he did not believe in democracy, the rule of the people.

Yes, the rule of the people comes into play during elections and the losing side always throws a tantrum, especially in close elections. If there are major transgressions by the elected officials, the proper procedure is to impeach them, not call in the military.

This sends exactly the wrong message to everyone in Egypt and in the region: that, if you don't get your way democratically, then take to the streets.

Not really,

Really.
Mubarak was not a democratically elected leader and was not entitled to such protections.
He came by the gun, and went by the gun.

Any sources that the protesters are all pro-west educated elite?
It seems that the protesters are from every part of the Egyptians society perhaps bar the very religious.

What I meant was that the anti-Morsi crowd dominates the internet and media, so their view is disproportionately represented on the air and gives a distorted view of reality.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Brotherhood supporters amassing in Cairo??

the brotherhood's blood has been shed for decades now. Inshallah brotherhood will be back

 

[Pandora]

@smuhs1 I know you got exactly what you wanted too, another civil war.

Are you in your senses ? Why would i want a civil war. Next time try not to sound like a retard.

 

[Developereo]

Red herring. So I conclude you agree 100% with my assessment.

Since I reject the claim that opposition to Israel equals opposition to Jews, I cannot accept your assertion.

It is true that someone who opposes Jews just for being Jewish cannot be a liberal.
But the same can be said of people who stereotype and oppose Muslims.
Or Christians. Or Hindus. Or Buddhists.

 

[Solomon2]

Since I reject the claim that opposition to Israel equals opposition to Jews, I cannot accept your assertion.

You're still in red herring mode. The quote from the article and from my comment was about Jew-hatred, not Israel-hatred.