EFES 2012 EXERCISE

[BordoEnes]

 

[BordoEnes]

 

[Banu Umayyah]

During WW1 greeks were minority in Ottoman Empire and when empire weakened they became pawn to UK captured Aegaen city İzmir , just like Arabs and Armenians they become pawn to outside forces , generated civil war and fastened the collapse of empire.

Same old Turkish nonsense.
Arabs, Armenians and Greeks didn't consider UK outsiders and Ottomans insiders!
Both were outsiders that need to be defeated. UK's assistance was most welcome!
Late Ottoman rule was more nationalistic than Islamic.

 

[Targon]

I personally think it was good for us, who would want to contain gazillions of radical Arabs in their country after all.

Government was not enough Islamic to consider Ottomans insider ! Because its far better now !

Also technically nothing is wrong with what he said, its was treachery and they were pawns of UK.

 

[AKINCI]

Same old Turkish nonsense.
Arabs, Armenians and Greeks didn't consider UK outsiders and Ottomans insiders!
Both were outsiders that need to be defeated. UK's assistance was most welcome!
Late Ottoman rule was more nationalistic than Islamic.

No matter what you betrayed to caliph. If Muslims can not unite today, main reason of that ending of Caliphate. Organisation of Islamic Cooperation should choose a caliph and revive Caliphate again.

 

[BordoEnes]

 

[Quasar]

 

[Mehmet]

Even the name of EFES are enough to loose our Western neighbour's sleeps over. The exercise area is problematic Aegean and EFES exercises simulate a directly invasion scenaria against a land part/island with Using all Land-Naval and AirForces at a likely war. The psicological effects of those exercises are the main reason of our neighbour's economical failure.




EFES -2009

No that is wrong! Don't believe in Greek propaganda. Spending 2 to 2.5% of your GDP on defense does not make your economy go bust.

The problem with Greece and the reason why they have utterly failed is a few reasons, the main being that they joined a economic union intended to create closer ties and cohesion between members through MNE activity (multi national companies) & in this environment where an MNE can utilize the resources of not only it's home country but all other member nations the only way you can actually compete is if your laws allow for the creation/development of MNE's which with the Greek paranoia about foreign control they did not allow and instead did the reverse by actively seizing (government) control of businesses. This moronic situation was made worse by:

1. Lax taxation controls.
2. Addiction to credit (even the largest newspaper of Greece today pays wages through loans the banks were also ok to this when everything was working) which is moronic but made worse when the main point and factor 1 also hold true. You should as a company spend capitol only when you need funds to grow/expand not to pay fund overheads such as wages!!!
3. Significant negative balance on Import/Export -> Greece's imports are immensely larger then her exports. This is why people make fun of Greece as being a producer of tourists and olives and pretty much nothing else.

The austerity pack from the EU actually solves the credit problem for Greece provided: if they smarten up, stream line government, red tape and implement greater taxation controls however this is not happening since for years Greeks were loving the easy flow of hard currency are now resisting giving a single cent to the government -> So much for Greek patriotism lol.

Additionally today the real problem for Greece is that they have lost complete and utter market confidence, today entire financial companies and elites (sharks) et all are correctly betting that Greece will only get worse "shorting" it and making a killing while the Greek government has no choice but to accept this debt since this is how modern financial markets function, ie: once you lose market confidence, that's it you lost it and will become a basket case.

For years Greece did nothing to attract FDI (foreign direct investment) while it seems they did everything to kill it such as the government seizing businesses that are operating on Greek soil while Turkey has been for a while doing everything it can to generate outside interest and gain FDI, such as 100% tax return on R&D costs.

In short Greece was never ready for an international market and nothing has changed since the Greek mentality of "making it rich quickly & retiring at 30/40" remains and their claims to the biggest merchant marine fleet in the world is hot air since merchant marine and cargo ships often fly flags of convenience and cannot be considered part of the Greek economic infrastructure.

Also they claim that they are the hardest working in Europe which is complete BS since it does not matter how much work you do but how productive you are!! Going to work and basically regulating everything to another day is not productive, it's wasteful and in Greece you had until recently construction companies that have yet to develop their first building, maritime companies that hire other maritime companies!

 

[Mosamania]

EFES....

 

[Mehmet]

I have two questions to my Turkish friends. Is it true that Turkey is planing to change the infantry rifle from the G-3 to the HK-416? Personally I like the G-3 and the 7.62x51 round. In the states we have a domestic rifle like the G-3 called the PTR 91 and I own one. I love the rifle it shoots well and has great distance. Yeah there is The Hk-416 is a sexy rifle but it chambers the 5.56 which is not bad in urban warfare like Iraq. But in Afghanistan or mountainous warfare it is terrible. I knew an Afghan war vet who told me he would rahter use a FAL or a G-3 in Afghanistan then the M-4.

Second what is the dispute between Turkey and Greece? Is it Cyprus? Also what is Turkey plan's in the event of war with Greece? i am pretty ignorant on this issue so I want to know the Turkish perspective. Also that military exercise looks awesome!!!

What everyone has told you so far regarding Greece and Turkey is just a small piece of the puzzle. The problems date back to the era of Ottoman expansion that subdued the previous Byzantine and independent micro Greek states into the Ottoman empire and in special regards to Istanbul the Greeks have never forgotten. Members of the Golden Dawn neo Nazi party of Greece marking the fall of Istanbul to the Ottomans in a chant of resolve that "Istanbul will once again be Greek".

In 1821 the Greek campaign to gain independence from the Ottoman empire that was supported by the British, Russian and French empires was successful and led to the subsequent cleansing of Turkic and Muslim people from the newly created Kingdom of Greece which is why today there is not a single mosque in Greece (and they insist that Churches should be made available to the Greeks in Turkey???). Driven by the success of independence from the Ottoman empire and it's autonomous Egyptian ally and the Ottoman defeat in the Balkan wars led to the conception of the Megali idea for the Greeks (a concept that calls for a greater Byzantium like Greece) which in turn led to the events in 1922.

Seeking to regain their lost Byzantium "glory" the Greeks at the closing days of the Ottoman empire actively invaded modern day Turkey annexing Izmir (West coast of Turkey) and penetrating deep into the Turkish homeland attempted to crush Turkish resistance before being pushed back by Ataturk at Ankara in what can be argued as the first documented post trench warfare of lightning blitz style attack to which the Greeks unprepared and unable to resist were broken into 3 dysfunctional groups by the Turkish "Great offensive". They were chased from Ankara to Izmir (>500km) within a matter of weeks. The unforgivable crime that the Greeks perpetuated as documented by historians is the immediate ethnic cleansing of Turkish civilians upon arrival onto the shores of Izmir and the subsequent scorched Earth policy the retreating Greeks practiced which includes the burning down of some 3 quarters of the city of Izmir, this resulted in much of the post war finances of a newly independent Turkey being spent on rebuilding the nation from the damage occupational forces inflicted.

During the Greek civil war both sides attempting to gather greater support from the population militarized the islands in the Aegean for the first time (citing that the Turks may take advantage of a strife ridden Greece, propaganda for the Greek masses) which despite being a symbolic gesture never the less broke the peace agreement that Greece and Turkey had achieved some 30 years prior during Ataturk's tenure as president. Since the 1950's Greece has continually complained of the Turkish military violating the territorial borders while remaining quiet to the fact that it is they who have broken treaties of peace and have continued to militarize their islands some of which are a spitting distance from the Turkish mainland and today sport sophisticated so called "defensive" weapons yet nobody has apparently told the Greeks that a defensive weapon when used in the role it is intended can also be an offensive weapon.

In the 1960 era an armed resistance to the British rule of Cyprus became a reality when Greek Cypriots never wanting to be independent in the first place (rather enosis (union) with Greece their so called motherland) started attacking British subjects on the island. The terrorist group EOKA A was formed with the aims of kicking the British of the island and achieving enosis with Greece since the British did not allow Cyprus (a colony of Britain at the time) to become independent.

Originally the Cypriot Turks were neutral in the mainly Cypriot Greek/British dispute while inability to quell the riots by Greece (a guarantor power like Turkey to Cyprus's independence) forced the British to turn to the Turks and as a result police units in Cyprus become almost exclusively Turkish Cypriots, this was never forgiven by the Greek side and despite having reached an agreement with the British the Greek Cypriot dream of enosis with Greece remained.

As EOKA A become defunct due to the peace accord between Cyprus & Britain the Greek Cypriots this time turned their anger of the failure of achieving enosis with Greece onto the Turks and the terrorist organisation EOKA B was formed, for years Turkish Cypriots were targeted and murdered simply for their ethnicity and in 1964 when Turkey threatened to intervene two years of peace was achieved however violence ultimately continued with the Turkish Cypriots this time forming the TMT, a resistance movement to the Greek Cypriots who by now where in league with the official Greek Cypriot government who were attempting to expel all Turkish Cypriots from the island and until 1974 Turkish Cypriots continued to face violence from their Greek counterparts and despite enclaves having been set up as a form of defense in numbers the Turks were vastly undermanned and lacked the fire power for true resistance to EOKA terror activities.

In 1974 Turkey finally having had enough intervened and the immediate knock on effect was the military dictatorship of Greece fell (warned by the US that if they attack Turkey directly in 48 hours Athens will by flying a Turkish flag), the Cyprus government collapsed and EOKA B terrorism came to an end some 3000 Greek troops from Greece also attempted to defend Cyprus but this time their confidence in Megali and Enosis were ultimately squashed. The irony is that Turkish military action in Cyprus was ultimately responsible for restoring democracy in Greece yet we have yet to receive our thank you cards and well earned souvlaki.

As mentioned prior the Aegean continues to be a hot spot with Greece sporting the idea in recent years of an EEZ which despite their claims to an EEZ being their right is actually illegal in a region such as the Aegean (where you have territorial boundaries overlapping and crossing each other) without the consult of all members that are or can be affected this is why today Turkey objects to a Greek EEZ.

Greece also claims it has the right to increase it's maritime waters from 6nm to 12nm which Turkey will never allow and even has declared Casus Belli (a reason for war). Given that the UNCLOS was designed for nations that have no such close proximity as far as maritime borders are concerned Turkey finds it totally unacceptable for the Aegean region; some Greek islands such as Rhodes for example can be seen with the naked eye and other islands such as Kastelrizo (I think that's how you spell it) are actually at spitting distance! Now take the Black Sea for example, here Turkey has implemented her right to expand from 6nm to 12nm to her maritime boundaries as we know this will not cause problems with any other nation in the region since it totally does not affect them one bit. Greece can extend her maritime borders in the West and leave her Eastern sphere of influence at 6nm but Greed and Greek are similar words.

If in the event a Cypriot & Greek EEZ as well as maritime boundaries for Greece were to be extended to 12nm become a reality this would spell economic doom for Turkey since Turkey would essentially be surrounded by Greek territory and no maritime traffic (commercial/government) would be able to enter into Turkish territory without the permission from the Greek authorities <-- this is not only unreasonable but totally unfair hence why the Turkish Casus Belli exists and why we object to the Greek and Cyprus EEZ.

It essentially all boils down to economics and geo political reality of Turkey and Greece, today Turkey is an economic powerhouse that can stand on it's own and is the only power in NATO along with the US that are actually growing in terms of contribution while the rest of our allies suffer economic doom and gloom however this could all change for Turkey and the engine of Turkey's economic power is Istanbul that is literally a crossroads between the East and West and would lose this unique status and have it shifted to Greece.

---------------------------

Today the Turks feel vindicated somewhat since the entire world is becoming aware of just how dirty and underhanded Greece as a nation can be, we have a corrupt country bankrupt for stupid reasons trying to gain "past glory" always at the expense of others yet if they only took the example of Turkey (working hard and slowly making dreams a reality) or Singapore (economic powerhouse not because of location but because they have made themselves a key anchor for any and all maritime activity in the SE region).

Unable to admit defeat and the death of the Megali/Enosis ideas the Greeks today blame everyone except themselves and utter hysterical nonsense when Turkey builds rubber hovercrafts citing that we are somehow going to invade them, never mind the fact that Turkey is always looking to have a larger role in global issues.

CURRENT STATUS AT 6NM WHICH IS FAIR TO BOTH SIDES.

AND AT 12NM WHICH IS BASICALLY THEFT OF RIGHTS AND UNACCEPTABLE TO TURKEY AS NO ECONOMIC ACTIVITY CAN BE UNDERTAKEN ON OUR MARITIME BORDERS WITHOUT NEGOTIATIONS WITH GREECE. IE: Complete lack of International waters for maritime traffic wishing to enter or leave Turkey.

Now imagine the above 12nm Greek maritime borders with a Greek & Cyprus EEZ when you also include Israel (who's unilaterally declared EEZ swallows up Lebanese maritime borders) you have an economic disaster for Turkey. This we cannot and will not accept.

 

[Killuminati]

Nice but i think the enemy would have Jet Fighters to and AA technology so it would not be easy to invade a place like in the video.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

I read interview with ex Navy Admiral and he said we surely need an aircraft carrier , he said if you have aircraft carrier it will help you flex muscle in foreign policy

 

[Mosamania]

Guys when I go to Turkey again soon I am going to do an EFES exercise as well WHO IS WITH ME???

 

[Killuminati]

Guys when I go to Turkey again soon I am going to do an EFES exercise as well WHO IS WITH ME???

You dont need to go Turkey to have a beer. Arabia has it to.

 

[Mehmet]

Same old Turkish nonsense.
Arabs, Armenians and Greeks didn't consider UK outsiders and Ottomans insiders!
Both were outsiders that need to be defeated. UK's assistance was most welcome!
Late Ottoman rule was more nationalistic than Islamic.

Say thank you to the British and French then for your independence and

1. Say thank you they gave you Israel.
2. Say thank you they gave you Arab tin pot dictators.
3. Say thank you for them practically stealing your resources until the oil crisis of the 70s.
4. Say thank you to them for still looking down at you for all this time through the entrapping of Orientalism.
5. Say thank you to them for your apparent inability to discern cause and effect.

Sigh... another stereotypical Arab.