Ecologists denounce PTI one billion tree campaign in KP

[Jzaib]

Are you chasing him over Panama leaks?.....I guess they don't have answ

After reading your comment, I conclude that little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

yes trying to get the answer. finally concluded that they are shameless when it comes to corruption . they dont consider it a crime

 

[risingsinga]

yes trying to get the answer. finally concluded that they are shameless when it comes to corruption . they dont consider it a crime

As a foreigner, I may not have the first hand knowledge about the mentality of some of Pakistanis but after reading so much online and also from discussions with my Pakistani friends, I conclude that there is a sizeable number of people in Pakistan who have been corrupted to the core and that is why they shamelessly defend corruption and rather they dislike anyone who talks against corruption or who is just honest and cannot be corrupted.

 

[Jzaib]

As a foreigner, I may not have the first hand knowledge about the mentality of some of Pakistanis but after reading so much online and also from discussions with my Pakistani friends, I conclude that there is a sizeable number of people in Pakistan who have been corrupted to the core and that is why they shamelessly defend corruption and rather they dislike anyone who talks against corruption or who is just honest and cannot be corrupted.

i feel annoyed about it as well . our people choose people who contentiously caught lieing stole them and murder them as well. I believe they physiological slaves of sharif and bhutto families, as their father and forefathers is voting them . ironically u know who are the two richest familes in pakistan. sharif and bhutto family. every time they come in power , pakistan become poorer and they become richer

 

[Edevelop]

why dnt u ever talk about their corruption . how appointing their loyals in every institution is destroying pakistan

My argument is very clear on this. You need to strengthen your institutions which can investigate and take action against anyone. The only thing opposition parties are trying to do right now is finding ways to come to power and make judgements in their own hands. They should think realistically. Even if NS resigns, the party will still complete its term. Rather than making hue and cry on a specific individual, they should be prepared for next elections to prove they have delivered something

 

[Jzaib]

My argument is very clear on this. You need to strengthen your institutions which can investigate and take action against anyone. The only thing opposition parties are trying to do right now is finding ways to come to power and make judgements in their own hands. They should think realistically. Even if NS resigns, the party will still complete its term. Rather than making hue and cry on a specific individual, they should be prepared for next elections to prove they have delivered something

so opposition asked PM to lounder money and buy flats and dnt file them in taxes???

PTI is not asking for resignation. they are asking for a forensic audit of sharif family and trail for tax fraud . anywhere in world PM would resign so institutions will not be influenced . nawaz has history of doing it. all around the world it is done . it is not something opposition came up with

 

[Edevelop]

so opposition asked PM to lounder money and buy flats and dnt file them in taxes???

PTI is not asking for resignation. they are asking for a forensic audit of sharif family and trail for tax fraud . anywhere in world PM would resign so institutions will not be influenced . nawaz has history of doing it. all around the world it is done . it is not something opposition came up with

Wrong. The first thing they asked was resignation and this is what jalsas are about. Except for Iceland, no one resigned, not even the British PM belonging to world's best democracy

 

[Dubious]

I'm arguing we don't need dams and that basically means not requiring any engineers and heavy machinery.

You have not put any argument forward just comparison between USA who is trying to fix its rivers after using dams to reach industrialized nation status!

Yes to have a model like Israel, you need a plan but its nothing too complicated. Thats the essence I'm trying to explain.

You are not explaining anything...You didnt propose any model for Pakistan ....You just picked other countries ASSUMING Pakistan is similar to a desert like KSA and Israel- Though we are better and may not need that much work!

You just assumed that Pakistan has reached industrialized status like America and can now unhinge itself from supports of Dams?

British PM belonging to world's best democracy

who on earth told you that?

 

[Edevelop]

You have not put any argument forward just comparison between USA who is trying to fix its rivers after using dams to reach industrialized nation status!

Does industrialization have to be in the style of 60s era ?

You are not explaining anything...You didnt propose any model for Pakistan ....You just picked other countries ASSUMING Pakistan is similar to a desert like KSA and Israel- Though we are better and may not need that much work!

You just assumed that Pakistan has reached industrialized status like America and can now unhinge itself from supports of Dams?

Pakistan is arid like Afghanistan and Iran. If you knew geology and our history, you would know we were once a desert and agriculture particularly in Punjab was developed by the British and it was not due to building of dams !

Now what do you think about Pakistan, Israel and Saudi Arabia ?

who on earth told you that?

Duh strong institutions.

 

[Dubious]

Does industrialization have to be in the style of 60s era ?

Do you have an alternative to the energy crisis? Because the ruling family doesnt! And because they dont even get 1 min of loadshedding they dont know how tough it is with hours of it!

Pakistan is arid like Afghanistan and Iran

Not all of Pakistan maybe you need to do a little bit of research....

Pakistan forest resources consists, among others, one of the oldest and second largest Juniper forests in the world. Juniper trees are considered among the oldest growing tree species, often termed as living forest fossils, and can live for more than 3000 years. Situated in Suleiman Range of Baluchistan, these Juniper forests grow in extreme dry and rugged environment between elevations 2000-3000 meters.

Ecologically Pakistan is distributed into nine ecological zones depending mainly on moisture availability, temperature, elevation and soil conditions. The broader classification of ecological zones of Pakistan consists of Alpine zone, Temperate zone, Sub-Tropical and Tropical zones and Costal zone. Each ecological zone offers specific environmental, topographic and climatic conditions required to support particular trees and plants species.

Based on the distribution of these specific ecological conditions the forests of Pakistan are classified into nine major forest types, which, for the sake of simplicity, can be clustered into five broader groups,

Alpine Forests, Temperate forests, Sub-tropical Forests, Dry Tropical Forests, Coastal (Mangrove) Forests...

Mr. Khan is founder and editor of Pakistan Geographic. He brings along more than 27 years of varied environmental management and development evaluation experience. Over the years He has worked extensively as forester and as development evaluation practitioner with Govt. of Pakistan, United Nations System and several international organizations in and outside Pakistan. He hold MSc in Development Management from the University of Reading (UK), MBA in Project Management and BSc in Forestry.

http://pakistangeographic.com/forests.html

If you knew geology and our history, you would know we were once a desert

We never were a whole dessert...In fact

agriculture particularly in Punjab was developed by the British

Our agriculture history is from IVC...we were the world leaders of irrigation by the time british landed!

Duh strong institutions.

references? Coz instituitions would have references ...or is it 1 of the coz I said so moment?

Now what do you think about Pakistan, Israel and Saudi Arabia ?

Are we talking about soil moisture, forest covers or conservation efforts? People do PhD in specific areas....meaning each field is larger than summing it up in 1 pix!

High or low soil moisture doesnt mean gain or lack of vegetation/ forests

 

[Edevelop]

Do you have an alternative to the energy crisis? Because the ruling family doesnt! And because they dont even get 1 min of loadshedding they dont know how tough it is with hours of it!

Wind, Solar, LNG, Biomass, Geothermal. Is that less efficient ? Isn't this what ruling party is working on ? How about learn what Europe has been able to do

Not all of Pakistan maybe you need to do a little bit of research....

We never were a whole dessert...In fact

Most of it is. Baluchistan, Sind, and Punjab are 70% of Pakistan

Our agriculture history is from IVC...we were the world leaders of irrigation by the time british landed!

Ever given a thought what techniques IVC used ? Certainly there were no dams ! And mind you they were not in Central Punjab, where today most of the agriculture is.

1) Are we talking about soil moisture, forest covers or conservation efforts? People do PhD in specific areas....meaning each field is larger than summing it up in 1 pix!

Soil is everything and PTI is putting stuff not native to this land !

 

[Dubious]

And just as reference, here is where Pakistan is :

Raising awareness which was the job of the govt :

Zubair, M. and Garforth, C. (2006) Farm level tree planting in Pakistan: The role of farmers' perceptions and attitudes. Agroforestry Systems, 66 (3). pp. 217-229. ISSN 0167-4366
Farm level tree planting in Pakistan: The role of farmers' perceptions and attitudes
The low proportion of forested land and continuing degradation of existing forest cover are serious threats to the sustainability of forestry in Pakistan. Farm forestry has been identified as a feasible solution, particularly in the plain areas. Applying the Theory of Planned Behaviour in a survey of 124 farmers in Dera Ismail Khan district of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province showed that farmers' willingness to grow trees on their farms is a function of their attitudes towards the advantages and disadvantages of growing trees, their perception of the opinions of salient referents and factors that encourage and discourage farm level tree planting. Farmers viewed farm forestry as economically beneficial and environmentally friendly. Tree planting was perceived as increasing income, providing wood for fuel and furniture, controlling erosion and pollution and providing shade for humans and animals. Farmers saw hindrance in agricultural operations and the harbouring of insects, pests and diseases as negative impacts of tree planting; however, these were outweighed by their perceptions of positive impacts. Tree growing decisions of farmers were influenced by the opinions of family members, owners/tenants, fellow farmers and village elders. The factors that significantly predicted farm level tree planting were availability of barren land, lack of markets, lack of nurseries and damage caused by animals and humans. Farm forestry programmes are more likely to be successful if they acknowledge and address the factors which underlie farmers' reasons for planting or not planting trees.
http://www.cinram.umn.edu/sites/cinram.umn.edu/files/zubair.pdf

Yet govt from 2006 until the current govt gave no interest in this! This is esp advantageous for Sindh and Punjb but seems like ministers in neither province are educated and thus cant be bothered to pick up an already conducted survey!

Tree planting in Pakistan:
16 July 2009
Lahore, Pakistan - Pakistan set the Guinness World Record for tree planting, beating India in a healthy and productive international competition contributing to preserving fragile and endangered forests.

With 541,176 young mangroves trees planted by 300 volunteers from the local fishermen communities just in one day, the country broke the previous 447,874 record held by historical rival India.

http://wwf.panda.org/wwf_news/?170461/WWF-rewards-Pakistan-for-tree-planting-world-record

Yup the swamps you were worried about....is being rewarded by WWF...

Then in 2013 more swamps:

By planting 750,000 mangroves, Pakistan claims new world record
KARACHI:

The provincial forest department set a new world record on Saturday by planting 750,000 mangrove saplings at Kharo Chan, Thatta, in a little over 12 hours. This is the highest number of saplings planted within a day.
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“In 2009, the department had set a record by planting 541,176 saplings at Keti Bundar. This record was toppled later that year by India. Our efforts are an attempt to regain the title.”

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The world record isn’t the only reason the feat is something to rejoice about: mangrove forests along Sindh’s coastal belt have been vanishing rapidly. Residents of coastal communities have pointed their fingers at the land and timber mafias, who they claim are hacking away at the trees. According to IUCN officials, mangroves forests sprawled out over 600,000 hectares back in the 1930s. But by 2005, the figure had plummeted to around 96,000 hectares.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/567023/by-planting-750000-mangroves-pakistan-claims-new-world-record/

Raising awareness:
29 May 2012

Tree planting helps Pakistani farmers weather floods

KHAIRPUR MIR’S, Pakistan (AlertNet) - Abdul Qadir Shah, a cotton farmer in Pakistan’s southern Sindh province, has been able to spring back from the destructive floods of the past two years thanks to his decision to plant mango, date and neem trees on his 14-acre plot.

When floodwaters hit Khairpur Mir’s district, some 400 miles (644 km) northeast of Karachi, in 2010 and then again in 2011, Qadir Shah suffered financial losses of 4 million rupees ($44,000) as his cotton crop was ruined.

“But income from mango and date palm trees, which I had planted some four years earlier in my cotton field and on the edges of nearby irrigation waterways, provided enough money to let me repair damaged water channels, buy cotton seed, farm tools and pesticides, and other inputs for cultivating my farmland again this year,” he explained

http://news.trust.org//item/?map=tree-planting-helps-pakistani-farmers-weather-floods

This mind you was supposed to be done by the extension studies dept of universities and dept of forestry who have special people hired since 1950s to go talk to the farmers and educate them of how to minimize loss! I see most of the officers are as good as dead!



Green Pakistan by Plant a Tree & Install FES Stove
by Association for Humanitarian Development (AHD)

https://www.globalgiving.org/projects/rural-women-empowerment-in-pakistan/updates/

Wind, Solar, LNG, Biomass, Geothermal. Is that less efficient ? Isn't this what ruling party is working on ? How about learn what Europe has been able to do

Ruling party is an old dog which cant learn new tricks we have seen it time and again!

WHAT exactly is it doing it managed to by LNG more expensive when prices were at its low...Biomass isnt even addressed!

Solar park- boasted to be the worlds largest seems to be another lie 2 other countries have already claimed that they will build worlds largest even before Pakistan's one is complete! And lets not even go in the calculated cost vs reality!

The problem with the ruling party is - instead of seeing themselves as civilian slaves to serve they think of themselves as rulers!

Most of it is. Baluchistan, Sind, and Punjab are 70% of Pakistan

And Baluchistan has more forest than it is credited for! Sindh and Punjab have destroyed most of theirs but as the stuff I have posted in the post before this one....People can still repair- Just depends how interested are the uneducated ministers!

Ever given a thought what techniques IVC used ? Certainly there were no dams ! And mind you they were not in Central Punjab, where today most of the agriculture is.

1) I didnt say they had dams- maybe derivatives of it....Not much is known about the details...
2) Why did I bring in IVC- its irrigation system was complex for its time: Instead of building canals, Indus civilization people may have built water diversion schemes, which, like terrace agriculture, can be elaborated by generations of small-scale labor investments.
Indus civilization people practiced rainfall harvesting, a powerful technology that was brought to fruition by classical Indian civilization but nearly forgotten in the twentieth century.
At a recently discovered Indus civilization city in western India, archaeologists discovered a series of massive reservoirs, hewn from solid rock and designed to collect rainfall, that would have been capable of meeting the city's needs during the dry season.

3) In 2600 B.C.E., the Indus Valley was verdant, forested, and teeming with wildlife. It was wetter, too; floods were a problem and appear, on more than one occasion, to have overwhelmed certain settlements.


http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Indus_Valley_Civilization

So you claiming we were deserts historically is kind of wrong!

And if our unpar govt still cant learn from modern techniques they should hang their heads in shame coz even in Mesopotamia they had some dam like structures
IVC had town planning - canals to allow draining out of flood water- something a our metro didnt have! Shocke that people living in BC planned and were more visionary than those living in 2000s!!

Soil is everything and PTI is putting stuff not native to this land !

Not native to the land? What is native to the land?

 

[Edevelop]

Ruling party is an old dog which cant learn new tricks we have seen it time and again!

WHAT exactly is it doing it managed to by LNG more expensive when prices were at its low...Biomass isnt even addressed!

Solar park- boasted to be the worlds largest seems to be another lie 2 other countries have already claimed that they will build worlds largest even before Pakistan's one is complete! And lets not even go in the calculated cost vs reality!

The problem with the ruling party is - instead of seeing themselves as civilian slaves to serve they think of themselves as rulers!

Fact. Pakistan will save $ 1 Billion annually with the LNG projects and its is cheaper than what we are producing with Oil.

Solar park completed its first phase of 100 MW. Other Phases of 1500 MW are to follow within the next 2 years which will make it the world's largest. It may seem like its expensive but its not. There is no operational cost. Its free energy !

Biomass projects are under construction in Punjab

And Baluchistan has more forest than it is credited for! Sindh and Punjab have destroyed most of theirs but as the stuff I have posted in the post before this one....People can still repair- Just depends how interested are the uneducated ministers!

Are there a lot of forests now ?

1) I didnt say they had dams- maybe derivatives of it....Not much is known about the details...
2) Why did I bring in IVC- its irrigation system was complex for its time: Instead of building canals, Indus civilization people may have built water diversion schemes, which, like terrace agriculture, can be elaborated by generations of small-scale labor investments.
Indus civilization people practiced rainfall harvesting, a powerful technology that was brought to fruition by classical Indian civilization but nearly forgotten in the twentieth century.
At a recently discovered Indus civilization city in western India, archaeologists discovered a series of massive reservoirs, hewn from solid rock and designed to collect rainfall, that would have been capable of meeting the city's needs during the dry season.

3) In 2600 B.C.E., the Indus Valley was verdant, forested, and teeming with wildlife. It was wetter, too; floods were a problem and appear, on more than one occasion, to have overwhelmed certain settlements.

But you were saying dams are needed for industrialization practices and to stop flooding !
And just so you know the canals and other things in IVC were not made out of concrete !

Not native to the land? What is native to the land?

These are the trees of Pakistan

http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNABW250.pdf

 

[IceBreaker]

these so called educated people blindly following IK.

Your way of talking and typing English show's how educated you are, its like talking to a paindoo from pindi.

 

[massattack]

To overcome such errors, Ecological Department of Pakistan (if there is any) should have a plan or guidelines with recommendations in references to various part of Pakistan at its website.

Awareness in general to be advertised through print/electronic media. So people/organizations/NGOs and provincial governments should reap benefit.

Even there should be advise for general public about what to plant and what not to in their yards.

ssooy hoooay haan saab...

 

[IceBreaker]

Wow pakistan has an ecoligical department filled with dumb donkeys.
I'm impressed.
Goddammned fake fool didn't dare to research before yapping.