East Asian Union China+Taiwan+Japan+Korea, possible?

[Snowden]

I never said there are no Direct exchange rate established with RMB. I am saying the "Free Trade Zone" Idea is impossible as Chinese RMB is not yet an "International" Currency and can be establish a "Zone" for it.

You are right, US Dollars, Japanese Yen and Australian Dollar all signed the direct conversion deal with China, can you form a Free trade zone with 4 country? Which one of them are the US? What "Currency" do you think if China, US, Australia and Japan will use if they form a FTZ? RMB??

Bear in mind the original question is a FREE TRADE ZONE, not a Free Trade area or agreement.



lol who's noob??

A direct currency trade is using A "Pre-existing" forex to trade, for France, they pre-exchanged Euro into US/Australia dollar or Yen and then into RMB before handing those RMB (from their forex) to China, this eliminated the need to convert the currency on payment, thus eliminated a risk of exchange rate fluctuation and either China ended up paying more or France ended up paying more.

Trading with China without a Direct currency trade agreement will require the buyer to use either USD/AUD/JPY to trade with China and China will accept those currency and turn it into RMB on receiving the money. Or China convert RMB into USD/AUD/JPY to buy from those country and give them USD/AUD/JPY on requiring goods, as per international financial regulation, all TT/Tele Cheque/Bank Draft require 3-10 business day to clear, you don't go do a TT and expect the money is received immediately on the other end.

Trading with China with Direct Currency trade agreement will require the buyer to pre-exchange(Unless it's US/Japan/Australia) their own currency into RMB and pay the Chinese into RMB. Or Chinese pay RMB to those country for goods and they exchange it back with Foreign currency reserve and exchange it back to whtever currency there are.

Those 20 odd country you mention is only willing to trade with RMB, they do not establish a linkage from their own currency to RMB, and that will be Direct Currency CONVERSION/EXCHANGE not direct currency trade.


Again with the within XXX[insert number here] year China will be something something, come to me when RMB actually become top 3 most used global trade currency. HSBC pegged in 2011 that China will be top 3 in 2011, and you think you are better than those idiot who's working for HSBC??


Article wrote in 2011

now let's see what those overpaid idiot of HSBC have to say



well, a push of 4 years, pretend they said nothing in 2011 good move

You are calling me a noob when yourselves do not know the different between currency trade and direct trade. Now, who's noob?? Do you even know what is require to establish a Direct Currency Conversion for any country to any country, and why only 3 are doing them with China now??

Read this please

Lol what a economic noob you are.
Do you even know how trade works?

You use currency to do trading. This is not barter. The direct exchange rate helps overseas companies and Chinese companies trade without using dollars. Therefore the demand for RMB goes up. Already more and more countries and companies are using the RMB as they are willing to accept the RMB to reduce exchange change risk. Do you understand that? If you don't ask me, I will teach you.

Now, more countries are ALREADY holding the RMB-denominated assets as Reserves including Australia. Just remember the RMB isn't even fully convertible. Therefore I predict by 2020 the RMB will be the top 3 currencies used for trade, investment and finance. In terms of the RMB used as part of reserves, I would say it will be 3rd by 2020.

Next step is for the PBOC to allow more direct and portfolio investment. This will create massive use of the RMB.

China is now building a OTC in addition to the exchanges. Creating a market based yield curve is vital for a well developed bond market. This will give foreign investors more confidence in buying Chinese bonds.

If you dont understand just let me know, I can teach you

 

[jhungary]

Lol what a economic noob you are.
Do you even know how trade works?

You use currency to do trading. This is not barter. The direct exchange rate helps overseas companies and Chinese companies trade without using dollars. Therefore the demand for RMB goes up. Already more and more countries and companies are using the RMB as they are willing to accept the RMB to reduce exchange change risk. Do you understand that? If you don't ask me, I will teach you.

Now, more countries are ALREADY holding the RMB-denominated assets as Reserves including Australia. Just remember the RMB isn't even fully convertible. Therefore I predict by 2020 the RMB will be the top 3 currencies used for trade, investment and finance. In terms of the RMB used as part of reserves, I would say it will be 3rd by 2020.

Next step is for the PBOC to allow more direct and portfolio investment. This will create massive use of the RMB.

China is now building a OTC in addition to the exchanges. Creating a market based yield curve is vital for a well developed bond market. This will give foreign investors more confidence in buying Chinese bonds.

If you dont understand just let me know, I can teach you

lol you need to learn BETTER ENGLISH and better comprehension before trying to teach people

What you are saying is totally different than before, either you realise you made a mistake and try to brush it off or you are just trying to hide your mistake (That will be actually even worse)

Abstract from Post before

post #26

Wrong, there are 3 currencies directly trading with the RMB. The US dollar, Japanese Yen and Australian dollar. More currencies will be directly traded with the RMB as stated by the PBOC. New Zealand Dollar is next.

post #27

Direct currency trading IS exchange rate of two currencies without using a third currency such as the dollar. You seem to be an economic noob pretending to know everything. China also has currency swap arrangements with around 20 countries.

Both post are focusing on China have direct linkage (Also know as Currency Pegging) with other country. Add for a possible Free Trade zone.

While my question "What currency would China, Japan, Australia and US trade with when they have a FTZ" is COMPLETELY IGNORED from you, you simply put out point that the more country uses RMB to trade will bump the Global Currency reserve in China and hence bumping the RMB into 3rd place. Well, who doesn't know this general information. THis is not what we are arguing.

Do you even know what WILL happen if Chinese Government REALLY Open their currency to foreign investor today? Judging by the strong Dollars, YOUR CURRENCY WILL COLLASPE.

You don't need a CPA to tell you that.

teach me? Thanks but no thanks, trying to score point from your fellow Chinese first then come back to me about Economy.

read this before you call yourselves an "expert"

 

[SwatCat]

This poor guy puts too many hopes on China, which is far from reality.

 

[Wholegrain]

The Japanese do not see themselves as equals with ASEAN countries, Korea or any other country on the planet. They want to be the leader and have fantasies of heading a coalition of smaller asian countries against other powers because they see themselves as racially superior. In any union Japan will demand the status of leader.

Japan's hatred towards China is focused now because it sees China as a major threat to its power and influence in East Asia. The Philippines on the other hand cannot threaten or overtake Japan at all. The Japanese look down upon and despise all other asians besides Chinese, including Filipinos, Laotians, Koreans, Cambodians, Thai etc., the very reason they are being friendly to those countries is because those countries are currently sucking up to the Japanese and accepting Japan as their leader (or as Japan thinks, their rightful master) against China. The Japanese also have an inferiority complex over getting nuked and occupied and dictated to for decades by the Americans so they want to insert themselves as the master race over other asians to assuage their national pride.

If going by the (flawed) methodology by a certain member here who uses internet comments and blog posts to judge millions of people, if you look at the Japanese internet you will see unwarranted hateful racial abuse towards all other races on the planet earth including fellow east asians. Unlike China, Japan doesn't have a community of 200,000 Africans in Guangzhou and hundreds of thousands of other expats so one wonders where the racial hatred comes from. Koreans and ASEAN countries are not exempted from Japanese contempt. The Japanese express hate for China more because China is actually challenging them and not submitting to their domination.

The same delusional Chinese member here may think that Japan looks down on people because of their socioeconomic status, let them live in that fantasy. This same member abuses minorities who fought against Japan during the war and contributed tens of thousands of martyrs while the Japanese were dropping the bubonic plague and poisonous gas on his hometown. I guess thats East Asian Unity LOL.

In Taiwan, my family has never had a problem with the aforementioned minorities.

 

[kalu_miah]

The Japanese do not see themselves as equals with ASEAN countries, Korea or any other country on the planet. They want to be the leader and have fantasies of heading a coalition of smaller asian countries against other powers because they see themselves as racially superior. In any union Japan will demand the status of leader.

Japan's hatred towards China is focused now because it sees China as a major threat to its power and influence in East Asia. The Philippines on the other hand cannot threaten or overtake Japan at all. The Japanese look down upon and despise all other asians besides Chinese, including Filipinos, Laotians, Koreans, Cambodians, Thai etc., the very reason they are being friendly to those countries is because those countries are currently sucking up to the Japanese and accepting Japan as their leader (or as Japan thinks, their rightful master) against China. The Japanese also have an inferiority complex over getting nuked and occupied and dictated to for decades by the Americans so they want to insert themselves as the master race over other asians to assuage their national pride.

If going by the (flawed) methodology by a certain member here who uses internet comments and blog posts to judge millions of people, if you look at the Japanese internet you will see unwarranted hateful racial abuse towards all other races on the planet earth including fellow east asians. Unlike China, Japan doesn't have a community of 200,000 Africans in Guangzhou and hundreds of thousands of other expats so one wonders where the racial hatred comes from. Koreans and ASEAN countries are not exempted from Japanese contempt. The Japanese express hate for China more because China is actually challenging them and not submitting to their domination.

The same delusional Chinese member here may think that Japan looks down on people because of their socioeconomic status, let them live in that fantasy. This same member abuses minorities who fought against Japan during the war and contributed tens of thousands of martyrs while the Japanese were dropping the bubonic plague and poisonous gas on his hometown. I guess thats East Asian Unity LOL.

In Taiwan, my family has never had a problem with the aforementioned minorities.

So both Japan and ASEAN have mutual interest, Japan as the "master race" and ASEAN as the "slave races"?

Regardless of the master-slave relationship, despite the hatred issues, if they are useful for each other, what is the problem with ASEAN+ idea then? I am curious about your opinion on ASEAN+.

Currently both Japan and Korea have US bases, what if both act as master and manage affairs of ASEAN and develop the region and integrate the economies within itself and with Chinese economy. Don't you think it will benefit all, Japan, Korea, ASEAN and China? And eventually kick the US and its bases out of this region?

 

[Snowden]

lol you need to learn BETTER ENGLISH and better comprehension before trying to teach people

What you are saying is totally different than before, either you realise you made a mistake and try to brush it off or you are just trying to hide your mistake (That will be actually even worse)

Abstract from Post before

post #26



post #27



Both post are focusing on China have direct linkage (Also know as Currency Pegging) with other country. Add for a possible Free Trade zone.

While my question "What currency would China, Japan, Australia and US trade with when they have a FTZ" is COMPLETELY IGNORED from you, you simply put out point that the more country uses RMB to trade will bump the Global Currency reserve in China and hence bumping the RMB into 3rd place. Well, who doesn't know this general information. THis is not what we are arguing.

Do you even know what WILL happen if Chinese Government REALLY Open their currency to foreign investor today? Judging by the strong Dollars, YOUR CURRENCY WILL COLLASPE.

You don't need a CPA to tell you that.

teach me? Thanks but no thanks, trying to score point from your fellow Chinese first then come back to me about Economy.

read this before you call yourselves an "expert"

Kid, I've probably forgotten more about economics than you will EVER know and I'm being humble.

I wasn't referring to any FTZ bud, my point is that the RMB is becoming internationalized and will become top 3 within 7 years.

Newsflash kiddo, the RMB is already opening up to foreign investors and they can't wait to use and hold RMB. Go look at the Aussies, already buying RMB-denominated assets. Why do you think the RMB is climbing up the currency payments rankings each month according to SWIFT, because more and more people and businesses are using it.

As soon as China stops suppressing the RMB, the RMB will rise dramatically as its being held down like a beach ball under water and investors will want to buy it ASAP. The dollar will collapse because the PBOC has been the biggest entity soaking up all those excess dollars flowing out of the US and the PBOC has been printing up RMB and buying those excess dollars from the forex market which adds up to China's forex reserves.

It's how China has been accumulating so much reserves so quickly.

If you had an ounce of knowledge about economics and currencies, you would realise as the CPC gives more leeway to buy and invest in RMB assets, more people want to hold it as its an appreciating currency and much easier to do business with.

I doubt you've seen a cheque book son let alone traded and dealt with foreign currencies.

 

[jhungary]

Kid, I've probably forgotten more about economics than you will EVER know and I'm being humble.

I wasn't referring to any FTZ bud, my point is that the RMB is becoming internationalized and will become top 3 within 7 years.

Newsflash kiddo, the RMB is already opening up to foreign investors and they can't wait to use and hold RMB. Go look at the Aussies, already buying RMB-denominated assets. Why do you think the RMB is climbing up the currency payments rankings each month according to SWIFT, because more and more people and businesses are using it.

As soon as China stops suppressing the RMB, the RMB will rise dramatically as its being held down like a beach ball under water and investors will want to buy it ASAP. The dollar will collapse because the PBOC has been the biggest entity soaking up all those excess dollars flowing out of the US and the PBOC has been printing up RMB and buying those excess dollars from the forex market which adds up to China's forex reserves.

It's how China has been accumulating so much reserves so quickly.

If you had an ounce of knowledge about economics and currencies, you would realise as the CPC gives more leeway to buy and invest in RMB assets, more people want to hold it as its an appreciating currency and much easier to do business with.

I doubt you've seen a cheque book son let alone traded and dealt with foreign currencies.

Getting tired of argue with you.

A.) THE OP IS ABOUT FREE TRADE ZONE, AN ECONMIC AND MILITARY UNION.

No point talking about RMB separately. And by saying "I wasn't referring to any FTZ bud" said sentence render nthe whole post a moot point. If you want to open a post and discuss RMB, do it, but don't hijack someone else's post.

B.) I don't really want to know "What you forget about Economic" seems pointless to me, your knowledge is moot to me, as far as I concern, your point have no back up and again is one of those "You say it is, hence it is" point. No reference and back up, I don't have to believe anything from your point. Unless you are a reputable person, say a professor in University, otherwise I am not in the mood to listen to your brain fart.

C.) accumulating reserve is not the same as to have a strong currency. In fact this is the opposite of having a "Stroge Currency" as the circulation of your currency in the world (OUTSIDE YOUR OWN COUNTRY). The reason why you can sell stuff cheap is because you have a "Fixed exchange rate" When your currency go float, you will need to compete with other floating currency and you are so sure about RMB is going to make it, but many MANY MORE economist did not. At least if they are become float now

Here is some good read

Renminbi currency value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This will be the last post on you, unless you gave me proof that you are a reputable person or uses reputable source, I am not going to argue with "You said" anymore.

 

[AViet]

I really hope one day, East Asia Union will be created and Vietnam withdraw from ASEAN to join the bloc. We have very little in common with the like of Phillipinos or Indonesian. Before 1995 (when Vietnam joined ASEAN), these countries were as alienated to us (at least to North Vietnamese) as Middle East countries, while we were much closer economically and culturally to North East Asian socialist countries, like China, Mongolia and North Korea. At that time, we had similar cold winter (in the past, even winter in North Vietnam was colder than now), dressed similar clothes, had common Football tournament (Giai Viet-Mong-Trieu-Trung, mean Vietnam-Mongolia-North Korea-China) and many other similarities.

 

[Kolaps]

I think it really really possible...

But first, mainland China should drop the communist name!

A lot of people are irritating with that. Forget about Korea and Japan, even Hongkong and Taiwan are rejecting it.

 

[EastSea]

I really hope one day, East Asia Union will be created and Vietnam withdraw from ASEAN to join the bloc. We have very little in common with the like of Phillipinos or Indonesian. Before 1995 (when Vietnam joined ASEAN), these countries were as alienated to us (at least to North Vietnamese) as Middle East countries, while we were much closer economically and culturally to North East Asian socialist countries, like China, Mongolia and North Korea. At that time, we had similar cold winter (in the past, even winter in North Vietnam was colder than now), dressed similar clothes, had common Football tournament (Giai Viet-Mong-Trieu-Trung, mean Vietnam-Mongolia-North Korea-China) and many other similarities.

 

[AViet]

It is right on topic.

 

[EastSea]

The closest picture I could find. The Union under discussion excludes Mongolia and Vietnam, as shown in above picture.

This thread is to consider the feasibility of this future scenario of East Asian Union (China+Taiwan+Japan+Korea), as opposed to some of the other possibilities such as:
ASEAN+3
ASEAN+6
ASEAN+
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region.html
....

@sEoulman556 , here is the promised thread for East Asian Union.

It is right on topic.

read again the post of thread creator he stated that, Vietnam and Mongolia is

 

[AViet]

read again the post of thread creator he stated that, Vietnam and Mongolia is

The Union under discussion borders to Vietnam, which is seen as either East Asian or South East Asian, depending on situation. Any Vietnamese forumer here is free to show off his opinion.

If the Union is not related to Vietnam at all, why are you here in the first place?.

People in the North of Vietnam have quite different mentality, that what some people in the South of Vietnam like you may not understand. You may want to associate with Phillipinos or Indonesian, that's your opinion and keep it for yourself. If you want to discuss, just open another thread about this, stop diluting the thread by petty thinking and your childish behavior.

 

[nastikan]

They all hate each other and have territorial disputes with one another. For such a union to work, you need at least one country which is neutral . May be include Singapore?

 

[EastSea]

The Union under discussion borders to Vietnam, which is seen as either East Asian or South East Asian, depending on situation. Any Vietnamese forumer here is free to show off his opinion.

If the Union is not related to Vietnam at all, why are you here in the first place?.

People in the North of Vietnam have quite different mentality, that what some people in the South of Vietnam like you may not understand. You may want to associate with Phillipinos or Indonesian, that's your opinion and keep it for yourself. If you want to discuss, just open another thread about this, stop diluting the thread by petty thinking and your childish behavior.

Don't troll about us here, idiot false flag.