Earthquake Funds---F16 Money---Where Did They Go

[Tps43]

the ACM had no right to donate the fighter aircraft money to earthquake relief---.

No disagreement on that.

 

[MastanKhan]

Not many. Some. Don't exaggerate. Behave according to your age.

Hi,

One is too many---.

 

[Gryphon]

Almost all Sam sqn's of paf are on adhoc basis . The first baby step is taken in shape of have a seprate Dcas AD but still a long way to go

The air force is supposed to provide air defence, but what a shame the PAF thinks otherwise. Their only concern is base protection with VSHORADs, Crotales and Spada 2000+. The Spada is another gem in PAF's tainted procurement history.

You have PA inducting FM-90 and LY-80 and now they are looking at the FD-2000. Tells us that they don't trust the PAF for air defence.

Oh please...
I know u mean well for PAF but the above is not correct

Kindly point out the incorrect part.

 

[Tps43]

The air force is supposed to provide air defence, but what a shame the PAF thinks otherwise. Their only concern is base protection with VSHORADs, Crotales and Spada 2000+. The Spada is another gem in PAF's tainted procurement history.

You have PA inducting FM-90 and LY-80 and now they are looking at the FD-2000. Tells us that they don't trust the PAF for air defence.

For last 10 years I am listening we are going to replace mpdrs but nothing literally nothing happened till now.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The video is based on some reality but the OP's usual ill-informed tirade is derailing the key issue. The PAF's pursuit of the F-16 was INDEPENDENT of its pursuit of the M2K.
As I have repeatedly refuted his claims of equalling the F-16 purchasing with the M2K before, the F-16 purchase was to meet the original requirement for a air superiority/multi-role aircraft laid out in the original 80's Air Staff requirement.

The M2K was borne out of the need for a deep strike asset AND WAS PURSUED IMMEDIATELY after 2001. However, the French at the time were desperate to sell the Rafale and kept insisting that Pakistan's request for only 28-36 M2K was not sufficient for them to restart the line and that we should buy the Rafale(which was much expensive) instead.

During Carter's time, the PAF did look at the M2K and Mirage F1 in lieu of the F-16. The US at the time was only offering the F-20 and F-16-79. However, once Reagan came, the floodgates opened in terms of availability as well as aid and discounts (designed to prop-up US exports at the time).

We also have to keep in mind that for a modern fighter, the F-16 exceptionally cheap thanks to its sheer scale.

Right off the bat, the F-16 was priced at a much lower rate than the M2K and Tornado, so practically every major air force went for it as soon as it was made available to them. No fighter was matching it in terms of bang for the buck or operational up-time. IMO, it might go down in history as the greatest fighter of all time.

I don't think this was as much of a PAF 'mistake' in as much as a Pakistani one. We weren't mature in terms of our foreign relations (I'd argue, still aren't). We didn't have a lot of people saying, "hey, if we pursue nuclear weapons without leverage to keep the US engaged -- like the Soviets in Afghanistan -- then we'll need to avoid buying from the US." But if such decision-making is left to a relative handful of people, you won't get that, at all.

We're now at the stage where the procurement official in the PAF, PN or PA has to basically function as Minister of Foreign Affairs, Industrial Development, R&D, etc, because the actual government (be it due to dictators or corrupt politicians) didn't do its job.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Many a posters are still not understanding the significance between the F16 and M2K purchase---.

The "tirades" of the OP have brought out many a truths about the issue---. It has given a different scenario to the pakistanis to ponder---it has told the public that all is not gold and silver at the Paf---but a lots of rust has been painted over hiding the weak spots---. That poster is still innocent in the art of 'inquisition'---. It took ages for that poster to learn that UNCLE JI in the air force was on the take---. So---what does one say about his intellect---.

Military equipment is not about buying the best out there---it is about overall tactical advantage as well---

F16 brought nothing to the table that the M2k would not---. There was no advantage of the F16 over the M2K other than you allowed the enemy to get the 2nd best aircraft and the difference between the first and second aircraft was like 10 to 9.8---.

It was the same difference between the Sabre F86 and the Gnat---. At higher altitudes the Sabre was a monster with its computerized machine gun and air to air missiles---.

At lower altitudes the Gnat would run circles around the sabre---.

We the pakistanis have been told a lie---. Paf fckd up tactically and strategically---as it had done multiple times---it let the enemy get the "2nd" best aircraft---.

The 2nd best proved to be the best when the sanctions hit the best aircraft---and that is the crux of the story---.

A similar theme is being played again regarding the J10's---for many a years---.

Hi,

The reason this thread is opened is---because the supreme court is going to investigate the wrong doings into the donations of the 2005 earthquake---.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

Thank you for the clarification---. The basic fact stays the same---the ACM had no right to donate the fighter aircraft money to earthquake relief---.

Total agreement on that but I don't understand why the discussion is going on in circles and after a certain number of posts everyone one seems to be repeating the same thing .. what's the point and what's wrong with us?

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

Many a posters are still not understanding the significance between the F16 and M2K purchase---.

The "tirades" of the OP have brought out many a truths about the issue---. It has given a different scenario to the pakistanis to ponder---it has told the public that all is not gold and silver at the Paf---but a lots of rust has been painted over hiding the weak spots---. That poster is still innocent in the art of 'inquisition'---. It took ages for that poster to learn that UNCLE JI in the air force was on the take---. So---what does one say about his intellect---.

Military equipment is not about buying the best out there---it is about overall tactical advantage as well---

F16 brought nothing to the table that the M2k would not---. There was no advantage of the F16 over the M2K other than you allowed the enemy to get the 2nd best aircraft and the difference between the first and second aircraft was like 10 to 9.8---.

It was the same difference between the Sabre F86 and the Gnat---. At higher altitudes the Sabre was a monster with its computerized machine gun and air to air missiles---.

At lower altitudes the Gnat would run circles around the sabre---.

We the pakistanis have been told a lie---. Paf fckd up tactically and strategically---as it had done multiple times---it let the enemy get the "2nd" best aircraft---.

The 2nd best proved to be the best when the sanctions hit the best aircraft---and that is the crux of the story---.

A similar theme is being played again regarding the J10's---for many a years---.

Hi,

The reason this thread is opeed is---because the supreme court is going to investigate the wrong doings into the donations of the 2005 earthquake---.

Some points valid. Most nonsense. Reason acknowledged even though funds are taken care of by a separate party, not the air chief. However if proven true, then that is totally unacceptable.

 

[MastanKhan]

Some points valid. Most nonsense. Reason acknowledged even though funds are taken care of by a separate party, not the air chief. However if proven true, then that is totally unacceptable.

Hi,

That was a public statement made years ago about donating it to earthquake relief---.

Total agreement on that but I don't understand why the discussion is going on in circles and after a number each one seems to be repeating the same thing .. what's the point and what's wrong with us?

Hi,

it will go around in circles because he breakthrough has not come forward---.

This video by Kamran Khan and the supreme court chief looking into the fraud is just the tip of the ice berg---.

Now who in pakistan would have the courage to stand in front of the Paf---none.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

That was a public statement made years ago about donating it to earthquake relief---.



Hi,

it will go around in circles because he breakthrough has not come forward---.

This video by Kamran Khan and the supreme court chief looking into the fraud is just the tip of the ice berg---.

Now who in pakistan would have the courage to stand in front of the Paf---none.

Sir this the beginning and not the end. Where I have some reservations about the outgoing CJP, he has certainly done a few things great and following CJPs will find it easy to take up these cases because a precedent has been set. I really want to know who messed up and why? and if found a malicious intent, then a few heads must roll..But I think it has to do with an organisational culture.

The air force is supposed to provide air defence, but what a shame the PAF thinks otherwise. Their only concern is base protection with VSHORADs, Crotales and Spada 2000+. The Spada is another gem in PAF's tainted procurement history.

You have PA inducting FM-90 and LY-80 and now they are looking at the FD-2000. Tells us that they don't trust the PAF for air defence.



Kindly point out the incorrect part.

Hey I agree with but the good thing is that it has all started to change.. I think PAF became a spoiled and a reticent child in 80s with best of the goodies available to them and they thought the world revolved around them because they possessed such great skills and they did a great job both in 65 and 71 (which they did anyway) but afterwards all the wars were fought by the intelligence and PA i.e. 80's so somewhere around that time things started to go south for PAF...laziness and incompetence based on some wrong assumptions sat in and somewhere in 90's, mediocrity and playing on back foot became acceptable as a strategy. That is when this obsession with single engine, small and beautiful somehow became a dominant philosophy and then nuke tests of 1998 made this policy indelible ..imprinted in stone..Not just PAF but the whole establishment started relying on the nukes.. But now things are changing and Sir Sohail Amman has done some great things ..fruits of which we will see in near future..

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

For last 10 years I am listening we are going to replace mpdrs but nothing literally nothing happened till now.

Chile

 

[war&peace]

The reason this thread is opened is---because the supreme court is going to investigate the wrong doings into the donations of the 2005 earthquake---.

Sir the best thing is that the SC has taken up the case and I hope something positive comes out of this and if proven then that asshole should be punished severely ...

 

[Sine Nomine]

Chile

If i am not wrong....
https://www.linktronic.com

 

[wali87]

Hi,

Please check out this video---starting at around 1:30 and listen to how earthquake funds were plundered---.

The Air Marshal General Qamar Sulieman donated the F16 funds to the earthquake fund supposedly.

All those funds and donations were looted and plundered by the govt officials---. Was Air Chief Qamar Sulieman also involved in the loot and plunder---.

This is a shocking video---. For how long I have been talking about this SABOTAGE ON THE INTEGRITY OF PAKISTAN by the Pakistan Air Force---all you members know about it---.

Enjoy this video---.

Hi,

Please check out this video---starting at around 1:30 and listen to how earthquake funds were plundered---.

The Air Marshal General Qamar Sulieman donated the F16 funds to the earthquake fund supposedly.

All those funds and donations were looted and plundered by the govt officials---. Was Air Chief Qamar Sulieman also involved in the loot and plunder---.

This is a shocking video---. For how long I have been talking about this SABOTAGE ON THE INTEGRITY OF PAKISTAN by the Pakistan Air Force---all you members know about it---.

Enjoy this video---.

We all know whose pockets those billions of dollars went in but most hesitate to say it. The unfortunate truth is that the armed forces of our country are never held accountable for their ill deeds nor can they be even questioned about it. All because of one outdated and false narrative that the armed forces are our protectors and questioning them is equal to undermining the national security of our country. A person with even the slightest sense would understand that this is a lie, only to protect their wrongdoings and accountability only improves the society. This trend has been going on ever since the country came into being. I don’t believe the Chief Justice, a prime minister or anyone for that matter can change this trend, as the saying goes ‘true power comes from the barrel of a gun’ so we just have to live with it.

 

[HRK]

I think the Pressler amendments hit Pakistan immediately after the collapse of USSR

actually before the withdrawal of USSR from Afghanistan which occurred during the period of 1988-1989 while Pressler amendments were passed in the year 1985