EADS Eurofighter in the MRCA competition Thread

[LCA Tejas]

China and other regional players should block this deal. In fact, it wouldn't be surprising if the Chinese oppose and work to block this procurement.

Though if India does operate and fully integrates the EU-Fighter into it's AF the challenging and critical scenario will be how will it face off against China's "J-XX" aircraft, of course we won't know that anytime soon but it's something to focus on.

Who is gonna block the deal, when EU,America,Russia and france are a part of this deal? Thats not gonna happen, we are not buying on sellers credit buddy... chill...

 

[jagjitnatt]

Rafale and Typhoon are the best bets for the IAF. Typhoon would benefit us the most because not only do we get the TOT, we also become a partner in the program. So, we will contribute in tech of the plane and manufacture it here in India and also sell it to other countries interested in the plane.

If Typhoon wins, Tranche 2 and 3 would have Indian tech also and if sold to other countries, would benefit India as well. The costs would be recovered. So the price of the plane should not be an issue at all.

Rafale is also good, modern and capable.

F18's only positive is its AESA radar. Everything else is just inferior to the two above. Also Rafale and Typhoon are getting AESA radars so won't make a difference 5-7 years from now.

Gripen is good, but if selected, I would like alteast 200 of them, to match up to Typhoon and Rafale.

My preference

Typhoon>Rafale>F18>Gripen>F16IN>Mig35

 

[DMLA]

So, we will contribute in tech of the plane and manufacture it here in India and also sell it to other countries interested in the plane

I have heard this argument many times and never really understood why we should do that! For india to have the manufacturing centers for typhoon up and running, it would take atleast 2-4 years from the day the deal gets through. By then, we would already be looking at PAKFA production. IMHO, we should look at developing PAKFA and selling PAKFA & not typhoon which does not seem to have many takers anyways!!

 

[jagjitnatt]

I have heard this argument many times and never really understood why we should do that! For india to have the manufacturing centers for typhoon up and running, it would take atleast 2-4 years from the day the deal gets through. By then, we would already be looking at PAKFA production. IMHO, we should look at developing PAKFA and selling PAKFA & not typhoon which does not seem to have many takers anyways!!

I don't think India would ever sell Pakfa. Not before 2025. The world is interested in Typhoon. Money is to be made there.
The main takers for russian planes are India, and China. India won't sell it to China and there are hardly any other countries interested in russian planes.
Look at Typhoon's current order from all over the world. Demand is way more than supply. Already over 470 Typhoons are on order. Add Indian 126 and the number goes above 600.

 

[Kinshuk]

I don't think India would ever sell Pakfa. Not before 2025. The world is interested in Typhoon. Money is to be made there.
The main takers for russian planes are India, and China. India won't sell it to China and there are hardly any other countries interested in russian planes.
Look at Typhoon's current order from all over the world. Demand is way more than supply. Already over 470 Typhoons are on order. Add Indian 126 and the number goes above 600.

Don't forget Malaysia, it follows the same fleet India maintains, also Malaysia is not a problem for us.

 

[Cityboy]

competition is between F-18 and typhoon.typhoon is ahead in the race right now

 

[sancho]

Rafale and Typhoon are the best bets for the IAF. Typhoon would benefit us the most because not only do we get the TOT, we also become a partner in the program. So, we will contribute in tech of the plane and manufacture it here in India and also sell it to other countries interested in the plane.

If Typhoon wins, Tranche 2 and 3 would have Indian tech also and if sold to other countries, would benefit India as well. The costs would be recovered. So the price of the plane should not be an issue at all.

That is not correct, India could only become a manufacturing partner for avionics, not an equal partner of the development, this was stated before from EADS officials and EADS is already building a new site (in Bangalore I think?) for it. It mainly means they are outsourcing the production to India to reduce costs, not to include Indian techs, or give us any real weight in further developments. They know we have some experience and knowledge in developing and producing avionics now and they simply use that and the fact that they already start to build such a site, only means they will outsource it anyway, no matter if we take EF, or not.

If we want to produce parts for other export versions of the winning fighter, nearly any vendor offers us such an advantage. Boeing already produces parts of F18SH with HAL and some reports said, that the wings and other parts of the airframe could follow, also there are rumours of LM offering the whole production line of F16 to India. South Africa produces parts for the Gripen and if Brazil takes it too, a big part will come from them, not sure what will be left for India then. Dassault has offered the whole production line of Mirage 2000 before and the fact that we seem to go for Kaveri-Snecma co-development, that could be integrated in Rafale too, should hint what Indias contribution to Rafale could be.
But keep in mind, they only search for ways to reduce costs and win this competition and not because they want to use Indian techs on their fighters!

The world is interested in Typhoon. Money is to be made there...
...Look at Typhoon's current order from all over the world. Demand is way more than supply. Already over 470 Typhoons are on order. Add Indian 126 and the number goes above 600.

Actually except of Saudi Arabia (72 EFs) and Austria (15), the Thypoon has only orders from the member countries. It lost competitions in South Korea, Singapore and in Brazil for pretty much the same reasons I don't see them winning in India too (as I mentioned on the pages before). So it looks only that EF is very succsessful, mainly because the 4 member countries has the biggest orders.

 

[sudhir007]

EADS to open R&D centre in Bangalore - Corporate News - livemint.com

EADS to open R&D centre in Bangalore

The European military consortium has Airbus Engineering Centre at Bangalore already. The target is to shift some of their R&D units from Europe to Bangalore and employ up to 200 engineers
New Delhi: European military consortium EADS Defence and Security Tuesday said it will open a research and development centre in Bangalore within two years that will provide employment to 200 Indian engineers.

The R&D centre would come up irrespective of the result of EADS’ bids for the $10 billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tenders, EADS Defence and Security chief executive officer (Military Air Systems) Bernhard Gerwert said at the DefExpo here.

“EADS looks at India not in short term goals. We already have a EADS Airbus Engineering Centre at Bangalore. The target is to shift some of our R&D units from Europe to Bangalore and set up a new R&D centre here to employ up to 200 engineers,” Gerwert said.

The MMRCA deal entails that the successful bidder should plough back 50% of the contract amount back into India under the offsets clause.

EADS’ Eurofighter Typhoon, a swing-role combat jet produced by Germany, Italy, Britain and Spanish companies, is competing in the bid and is scheduled to go in for flight trials in Bangalore beginning next week.

The fighter jet, which is already in service with British, Spanish, Italian, German, Austrian and Saudi Arabian air force, would undergo weapons trials in Germany and Britain later this year.

Asked if EADS had made any progress in identifying offsets partners from India, Gerwert said his company had already held talks with domestic industries and signed some MoUs with them.
“We would soon finalise some joint ventures. But more than the offsets, EADS is interested in industrialisation of Indian defence. There is engineering capability for defence in India. That is how we see this partnership with India, not in terms of offsets, but in terms of helping domestic industries to gain capabilities,” he said.
The CEO said in case, Eurofighter Typhoon was selected by the IAF for the MMRCA deal, the Indian industry should have the capability to absorb the technology that EADS would provide along with the aircraft.

“That’s why we intend to start this R&D centre. But it is independent of the deal itself. The idea is capability building,” he said.

To a query on technology transfer and if the governments of countries participating in the consortium would be willing to issue licence for the purpose, Gerwert said when they had made the bids for the MMRCA, they had clearly mentioned about the transfer of technology and they had no problem with it then.

“The licence is yet to come. But I am sure there is no problem for any of the four governments,” he stressed.

On the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar that India was looking for its MMRCA, Gerwert said they had already informed the IAF that they did not possess it but another consortium, Euroradar, was developing it which would be provided by 2015.
EADS is participating in the IAF’s 126 fighter jets competition.

 

[Dash]

Look at the data for installing AESA on EFT. 2015?...Until then the plans will fly blind or what?..just kidding..

Now countering to all the EFT supporter i will say its a Good plane. but not what we need.
Tobe very honest the intention of MMRCA is still not clear, at least the priorities.
You either give indigenous production the priority one and the national security/force capacity building or vice versa. If we ever go for typhoon kind of plane...

I would say priorityis on our own defence Industry and not defence

And if you take F18, it just changes, coz you get a good fighter for the defence and not much for the defence industry.
So here if we think logically only one thing comes in mind that in each of these deals we loose at one priority for the national interest and gain some on teh same ground. Thjk carefully.
its a question fo what is important for us right now...

I wouldnt say EFT will not benifit us. It will, however thats an issue of long run. like the AESA radar....
I feel we need something concrete with us right now, which can be battle ready anytime, like a proven airframe of F18/Rafale.

As far as TOT is concerened, I would say we have opened so many doors for that that first we need to see if we can absorb the tech so soon....and Friends TOT and absorbing the TOT are two different things, something that comes with time and knowledge...

Look at the list..
CABS AESA project, looking for foreign partner.
Kaveri-Kncehma project.
LUH looking for foreign partner..
Who ever wins MRCA will have some TOT at least...

I would suggest that we should get something on our hand, secure our borders, Live peace fully and then EXPAND our Knowledge.

The F18 and Rafale only support the logic, not anything else....

Feel free to comment.

 

[jagjitnatt]

F18 is okay but comes with a lot of strings attached. The source code for AESA radar won't be available to us so we will have to use only American missiles with it. So no R77, R73, or Astra missile on F18.
With F18 we will have to be dependent on US solely for weapons and critical upgrades. In case of sanctions, like what happened with Pakistan we will be left with sitting ducks.

F18 is just not the cutting edge fighter and has reached its limits.

Rafale and EF Typhoon are way better than F18/16.

 

[yashraj]

Typhoon is too costly yaar...........(It's My personal Favorite) plus we will not get great Air to ground capability.

While Rafale have great Airto ground capability and also Working AESA radar, Complet TOT and Source code plus We already developing our Kaveri engine with sechma and they offer us to intigrate our Working Kaveri engine in Rafale in future, plus it's completly France's war bird so we don't required USA to be in our side, Pluse We are familier with Mirage2000(Remenber Kargile!!!!!)

There are so many Plus in Rafale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But as far as Our DESI BABU is there "F18" is geting Indian Flage on It!!!!

Any Questions??????

 

[Dash]

F18 is okay but comes with a lot of strings attached. The source code for AESA radar won't be available to us so we will have to use only American missiles with it. So no R77, R73, or Astra missile on F18.
With F18 we will have to be dependent on US solely for weapons and critical upgrades. In case of sanctions, like what happened with Pakistan we will be left with sitting ducks.

F18 is just not the cutting edge fighter and has reached its limits.

Rafale and EF Typhoon are way better than F18/16.

Even Rafale support the Logic no doubt. Its a very good multirole fighter. The idea of self prepardness and defense industry advantage both meet at this Rafele point. I would agree on what you spoke about F18.

I dont want F18 for the same reason but my idea is get something for security first. and then talk business and developement.

 

[jagjitnatt]

I dont want F18 for the same reason but my idea is get something for security first. and then talk business and developement.

I think Rafale and Typhoon are better for security too. F-18 would be obsolete in a decade. Rafale and Typhoon are gonna rule the air. One look at the two birds is enough to hint the kind of firepower they can handle.

My 2 paise

 

[Parashuram1]

If you are looking for an orthodox multi-role fighter then Typhoon gets even lower rated than Rafale, Super Hornet Gripen and MiG-35. The F-16 is not really among the favorites of many Indians here; unusual but I take it because of your worry of Pakistani knowledge of the fighter's capabilities.

Just off topic, but please do choose wisely as even we Swiss are gearing up for a purchase of new fighters. After all, the world largest international defense deal will have some bearing on other similar deals as well.

 

[Kinshuk]

If you are looking for an orthodox multi-role fighter then Typhoon gets even lower rated than Rafale, Super Hornet Gripen and MiG-35. The F-16 is not really among the favorites of many Indians here; unusual but I take it because of your worry of Pakistani knowledge of the fighter's capabilities.

Just off topic, but please do choose wisely as even we Swiss are gearing up for a purchase of new fighters. After all, the world largest international defense deal will have some bearing on other similar deals as well.

Hello switzi!!

Tell us which one is your fav, will prompt to MoD. just kidding!