DRDO to be part of Future Ready Combat Vehicle project: Army

[surya kiran]

Now you are the first one to claim that the DRDO product was not far superior then the other options, in fact you are saying that it is inferior and that is why IA never chose it, this is new to me as far as claims from Indian members are concerned. We have a new theory now.

@Arsalan
Each and every point this dumass made has been refuted. Point by point. Reading is not his strength. His theory is all PSUs in India are rubbish. Private sector is best. IA should not be blamed for anything. Best of luck discussing with him

Let me tell you what he claimed he 'knew'

1. Nag is a 4th generation anti tank missile
2. Arjun requirements were never changed
3. Kaveri was never embargoed
4. Artillery procurement was never put on hold by GoI

This is only a few of the rubbish he claimed on that thread. Got so frustrated with him, just kept trolling him. Till now, he has not replied to 3 things, I asked

1. Provide source or link from DRDO for Nag
2. Respond to the failed tenders from the IA
3. Respond on the CAG report on Arjun vs T90

Till date no answer. Meanwhile, along had come @GR!FF!N and then omega who trolled him further.

Check this thread out for more action from the fartriot. Army invites proposals for building FRCV tanks, DRDO surprised

 

[Indian Patriot]

NO NO dear, i am not taunting, was just asking.

You were being sarcastic but those kids being kids won't get it. Just let them be, they are mere children.

There is a common belief with in members from India on this forum that the DRDO product was in fact superior to what Indian Army eventually can get from any where in the market.

Some members, not all.

The hard reality is DRDO products are a heap of garbage that the army won't touch with a barge pole if they had any say. Tavor is superior to INSAS, AK-47 is superior to INSAS, hell even the FN-FAL is superior to INSAS but army was saddle with INSAS because of obvious reasons.

DRDO has not come up with their own tech ever. It is always transfer of technology that is DRDO's bread and butter. From 1980 to 2015 the DERDO has not been able to design a single 155mm arty gun despite repeated warnings by army that they are in desperate need of replacements. A private company called Tata in collaboration with Denel comes up with a 155mm arty gun with a maximum range of 52 km. The Tata gun gets rejected.

The only reason for going for imported stuff is the corruption, the kick backs and omissions involved so that is why i asked the question

Only a fool will believe Arjun is better than Leo2, Abrams etc.; or in the same league as T-90. Foreign goods so far are better designed and have far better efficiency.

The confusion was that as per the other claim, if the corruption have been uprooted or even if the new modi gov. is doing that and cancellation of MMRCA and new multi caliber assault rifle was all part of that drive, then it is sensible to assume that the FRCV will also be the same DRDO product that was initially being rejected only because of corruption.

Well as a Pakistani you would sure hope that the Indian army is tied down by DRDO systems. You would rather see the Indian army deployed with a 20 round INSAS rifle instead of a 30 round Tavor.

That said, there still are talks about an other imported platform. So this is all mixed up. All of these three claims CANNOT BE TRUE at the same time, i am just trying to figure out what actually is the truth here.

Truth is DRDO and other associated defnce PSUs do not have the skill and resources to make world class weapon systems. The private sector has a chance because of their willingness for working with foreign firms, their sense of professionalism and accountability.

The trolls will come up with all sorts of excuses because they are, well, trolls.

Now you are the first one to claim that the DRDO product was not far superior then the other options, in fact you are saying that it is inferior and that is why IA never chose it, this is new to me as far as claims from Indian members are concerned. We have a new theory now.

If DRDO products were half as good as these trolls claim then at least one foreign buyer would have shown interest or invited DRDO to take part in evaluation process. Nobody even bothered. Nepal brought the INSAS and they are cursing the rifle ever since. Nepal called the INSAS as unreliable, prone to jamming and practically worthless. The same is been said by Indian paramilitary soldiers fighting counter-insurgency.

But for the trolls INSAS is the best rifle in the world.

India has the skill, the hunger and the industrial base to compete with the world's best. But that is with the private sector and not the public ones.

 

[surya kiran]

And here is more fun from the fartriot. Hey dummass. Still no answers to the questions posed? And as evident from the above post, still no idea to what happened in the artillery case.

DRDO, Army, kick-backs

 

[Arsalan]

You were being sarcastic but those kids being kids won't get it. Just let them be, they are mere children

I AM NOT, just asking some general question out of curiosity. Isn't this why we all come here? to learn about new things? Atleast this is why i am here, dont know about you.
Don't know why you feel like i was being sarcastic but whatever the reason is, that is you own assessment, good for you!

Some members, not all.

Do i need to start quoting the posts that will tell a totally different story? ALMOST ALL members, you are among a very few, if any, who are presenting this new theory that DRDO goods are heap of junk etc.

The hard reality is DRDO products are a heap of garbage that the army won't touch with a barge pole if they had any say. Tavor is superior to INSAS, AK-47 is superior to INSAS, hell even the FN-FAL is superior to INSAS but army was saddle with INSAS because of obvious reasons. DRDO has not come up with their own tech ever. It is always transfer of technology that is DRDO's bread and butter. From 1980 to 2015 the DERDO has not been able to design a single 155mm arty gun despite repeated warnings by army that they are in desperate need of replacements. A private company called Tata in collaboration with Denel comes up with a 155mm arty gun with a maximum range of 52 km. The Tata gun gets rejected.

Again, majority of the members here claim that the gun was rejected as army leadership is corrupt and they were looking to import and get kick back. Other wise that gun was better in accuracy and stuff when compared to any other option. There are dozens of posts claiming the same, you can look it up yourself. May be they were wrong then if you are so sure,

Only a fool will believe Arjun is better than Leo2, Abrams etc.; or in the same league as T-90. Foreign goods so far are better designed and have far better efficiency.

Fool?
98% of Indian members wont be happy with this, they all claim Arjun being rejected ONLY because of corrupt army. I wont deny or support that claim. Your tank your decision.

Well as a Pakistani you would sure hope that the Indian army is tied down by DRDO systems. You would rather see the Indian army deployed with a 20 round INSAS rifle instead of a 30 round Tavor.

As a Pakistani, i wont care. As a person spending time on internet to learn about something new, i do care to know what gun will be chosen, am not bothered by the selection but do care to know about the winner and the reason behind the decision.

Truth is DRDO and other associated defnce PSUs do not have the skill and resources to make world class weapon systems. The private sector has a chance because of their willingness for working with foreign firms, their sense of professionalism and accountability.

If DRDO products were half as good as these trolls claim then at least one foreign buyer would have shown interest or invited DRDO to take part in evaluation process. Nobody even bothered. Nepal brought the INSAS and they are cursing the rifle ever since. Nepal called the INSAS as unreliable, prone to jamming and practically worthless. The same is been said by Indian paramilitary soldiers fighting counter-insurgency.

But for the trolls INSAS is the best rifle in the world.

India has the skill, the hunger and the industrial base to compete with the world's best. But that is with the private sector and not the public ones.

The trolls will come up with all sorts of excuses because they are, well, trolls.[/QUOTE]
Strange, the general public here claims otherwise. Either you are wrong again or that majority public are what you call them, trolls!

Check the post by @surya kiran , he have pointed some of the grave mistake you have made in calling some of the excellent superior Indian 100% indigenous systems as a heap of junk! Things like Nag missile, or Arjun tank or Kevari engine etc. Frankly, i do not know much about these systems and there capabilities as they are irrelevant to me but it is nice to learn about some of the things he confirmed.

 

[surya kiran]

excellent superior Indian 100% indigenous

Now, I don't claim they are 100% indigenous. Neither do I claim, they are the best in the business. There is an evolutionary path for all developments. To give you an example, the IN began early because of paucity of funds. But, they did good with their allocations. They took charge of projects which they deemed strategic. Now, you have Indian shipyards building warships for the IN. This is happening to the IAF too. Slowly, but its happening.

As far the IA goes,like I mentioned earlier, its not 'just' about corruption. Defence deals have commissions, this is globally prevalent. The problem arises, when you do not take ownership of projects and treat your design partners as pure vendors. Not just that, the pathetic planning for procurement is another major issue. People say requirements keep changing. Of course they do! But the problem lies in not being able to foresee that. Which is why, I say the IN foresaw the need for power projection in the IOR. They started off as a ATV, supposedly tech demonstrator and today you have the INS Arihant. They started off as an Air Defence Ship, instead of calling it an aircraft carrier, now we are designing and building an INS Vishal after building a INS Vikrant.

The issue is there are problems with PSUs. Just not the ones that fartriot points out.

 

[Arsalan]

Now, I don't claim they are 100% indigenous. Neither do I claim, they are the best in the business. There is an evolutionary path for all developments. To give you an example, the IN began early because of paucity of funds. But, they did good with their allocations. They took charge of projects which they deemed strategic. Now, you have Indian shipyards building warships for the IN. This is happening to the IAF too. Slowly, but its happening.

.

oky i stand corrected:

@Indian Patriot
Check the post by @surya kiran , he have pointed some of the grave mistake you have made in calling some of the excellent superior Indian indigenous systems as a heap of junk! Things like Nag missile, or Arjun tank or Kevari engine etc. Frankly, i do not know much about these systems and there capabilities as they are irrelevant to me but it is nice to learn about some of the things he confirmed.

 

[surya kiran]

oky i stand corrected:

@Indian Patriot
Check the post by @surya kiran , he have pointed some of the grave mistake you have made in calling some of the excellent superior Indian indigenous systems as a heap of junk! Things like Nag missile, or Arjun tank or Kevari engine etc. Frankly, i do not know much about these systems and there capabilities as they are irrelevant to me but it is nice to learn about some of the things he confirmed.

He has blocked me am pretty sure

 

[Indian Patriot]

I AM NOT, just asking some general question out of curiosity. Isn't this why we all come here? to learn about new things? Atleast this is why i am here, dont know about you.
Don't know why you feel like i was being sarcastic but whatever the reason is, that is you own assessment, good for you!

Yea yea. I would have been doing the same in your place. Have your share of fun.

Do i need to start quoting the posts that will tell a totally different story? ALMOST ALL members, you are among a very few, if any, who are presenting this new theory that DRDO goods are heap of junk etc.

There are sane Indian posters who know the difference between fact and fiction. Only buffoons believe that T-90 is inferior to Arjun. And like Einstein said, he is not sure if human stupidity has any limits so there is no cure for their delusions.

Army does not have any oath of loyalty towards DRDO and hence they are not obliged to buy every junk that comes out of DRDO. If by a miracle DRDO manages to come up with some good quality product then he army will be interested.

Again, majority of the members here claim that the gun was rejected as army leadership is corrupt and they were looking to import and get kick back.

Oh yes, you now mean to say that you actually believe INSAS is superior to Tavor. I am sorry to disappoint you I am not like these 8-12 year old kids who are greatly amusing you. Glad that you are geting your share of laughs from them.

Every single elite battalion in Indian army. Be it the parachute regiment, special forces, special protection group etc. use imported rifles. The special protection group which is tasked with protecting the Prime Minister and important VVIPs use imported rifles. Politicians are not so corrupt as to risk their lives by arming heir security guards with faulty rifles.

Other wise that gun was better in accuracy and stuff when compared to any other option. There are dozens of posts claiming the same, you can look it up yourself. May be they were wrong then if you are so sure,

The gun is NOT better in accuracy. It has the same accuracy as dozens of imported rifles. Indian parachute regiment would not be marching with Tavor rifles on 26th January if INSAS was better than Tavor. Not a single commando in Indian army special forces uses INSAS.

Fool?
98% of Indian members wont be happy with this, they all claim Arjun being rejected ONLY because of corrupt army. I wont deny or support that claim. Your tank your decision.

Yes why not? Give them an inch and they will claim arjun to be better than the German Leo.

As a Pakistani, i wont care. As a person spending time on internet to learn about something new, i do care to know what gun will be chosen, am not bothered by the selection but do care to know about the winner and the reason behind the decision.

Yes you do care.

Guns are chosen by army based on merit.

Strange, the general public here claims otherwise. Either you are wrong again or that majority public are what you call them, trolls!

Majority public here thinks INSAS is the best rifle in he world, Arjun is the best tank in the world and LCA is the equal or superior of Rafale and Tejas.

If you agree with them then I don't have anything more to explain to you.

Check the post by @surya kiran , he have pointed some of the grave mistake you have made in calling some of the excellent superior Indian indigenous systems as a heap of junk! Things like Nag missile, or Arjun tank or Kevari engine etc. Frankly, i do not know much about these systems and there capabilities as they are irrelevant to me but it is nice to learn about some of the things he confirmed.

I have blocked trolls on PDF. I understand you are having your share of entertainment by reading heir posts but I am not here to feed their delusions. You feel amused by their comments so you can keep encouraging hem.

As for Nag missile, it is a failure.
Arjun tank, it is a failure.
Kaveri engine (meant for LCA), is a failure. In fact it was the failure of Kaveri engine which resulted in LCA being grounded for so many years.

But then again, maybe you will find their answers and theories more entertaining.

 

[surya kiran]

@Arsalan what did I tell you He has no answers, except ranting! The only thing he got right was Kaveri, except for the fact that he earlier claimed
a. Kaveri to have never been under sanctions,
b. Nag to be a 4th generation ATGM (not mention he did not know that DRDO has different labs developing different things and not knowing there is a difference between a warhead and seeker),
c. Arjun's requirements to never have changed and refuses to read the CAG report regarding the Arjun! Opinions without knowledge getting passed as facts!
Lots more, just read the links of the thread I posted.

Anways, have fun with him But, you really want to know about Indian systems, pull in milspec or sancho or water car engineer!