DRDO now begging the Army to place orders on Arjun Tanks

[Blue Marlin]

Please.

The facts are on record. It is just that members are these days not inclined to spend any time or effort in reading up about the details of a case. For instance, about the detailed arguments for and against the Arjun, and for and against the T90.

Reflect on the realities of life, as V. K. Singh illustrated in his memoirs, and think of the pitfalls and dangers of actually being able to buy whatever one wishes, rather than having to cut back and settle for inferior tanks, inferior planes and inferior naval vessels. We see an entire uniformed service facing these pitfalls and dangers.



I have to agree with you, but it is a sad agreement.

not only is is "sad" but it can ruin indigenous development of your own equivalent. some which is being seen in other sectors i.ie gun's howitzers, helicopter, gunships, frigates and heck even ammunition.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Contrary to media reports, the Russian lobby is strong and flourishing in India.

Indian Military Bureaurecracy,is working very Machiavellian manner,whenever any Indian Manufacturer introduces anything,they simply just add another capability on there wishlist,Organization Goes Back to working table,working tirelessley to bring product upto desired Mark,when they are done and Trials are started Indian Military Bureaurecracy,in the end says that was great but there is need of these improvements and + a new capability needs to be added to coup up with advancing battlefield.
That is story of every major weapon system,which India tries to produce in house,weather it's Tejas or Arjun.Tejas first flew in 2001,JF-17 flew 2003,one is fully operational and other is still trying for acceptence reason, One was bluntly shoved into system and other was always politely asked to be accepted+money was also given for foreign mall.
Indian Government needs to shove things into throat of Military Bureaurecracy+make them part of design and production team,and hold them accountable if system fails.
Luxury foreign tours,expensive Daru,Sight seeing that too on expense of either home country or seller natiom +TADA is very very Lucrative, & not to mention kick backs.
If this culture continues,Indian Government should forget about Indian Military Bureaurecracy,accepting anything from in home.
Though howitzers are exception,but still they manged to get M777's barrel bursters

 

[KapitaanAli]

Sir, then why you send T90 tank in Russia for competition? which you lost

The biathlon isn't for Arjun class tanks.

 

[war&peace]

not only is is "sad" but it can ruin indigenous development of your own equivalent. some which is being seen in other sectors i.ie gun's howitzers, helicopter, gunships, frigates and heck even ammunition.

I think they may shove it down IA's throat as they did with IAF for Tejas.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well, your uniformed men believe what you have been throwing at them through mainstream media that India is an economic superpower, third largest blah blah blah so now they want to go for the best or most expensive toys and do not want to settle for the inferior and substandard product in the name of nationalism. Continue this propaganda of the superpower and wait when your police force demands Lamborghinis and Ferraris as Dubai police..

Unfortunately for your argument, the premises are correct, the conclusions are wrong.

We have the money to buy the T90; in case you haven't noticed, we have bought them in very large numbers. So let us not be under the impression that this is a matter of not having the money to buy what we want. That is Pakistan's problem, not ours.

Where Pakistani observers get it wrong, every time, is in not understanding that there is a fear in the military of being cut off in future, by policy, not by budget, from up-to-date and imported technology. It is this that keeps them shying away from anything made in India; once the precedent is set, it will become extremely difficult to keep the bureaucrats from barring or restricting imports.

What Pakistani observers further get wrong is that these Indian options are not bad technically; on the contrary, they are better than the imported competition (not the Tejas; it has many foreign alternatives that are far superior) in most cases. In the case of the Arjun in particular, it is far superior to the Russian tank; this is NOT an opinion, it is the result of extensive tests carried out.

I hope you will understand from this, and I hope that you will take the trouble of looking up the details of the trials, that the Arjun is not a badly designed and badly made poor quality cheap local cop-out; it is BETTER than the badly designed and badly made poor quality imported competition, and funding is NOT a criterion.

 

[Maarkhoor]

not only is is "sad" but it can ruin indigenous development of your own equivalent. some which is being seen in other sectors i.ie gun's howitzers, helicopter, gunships, frigates and heck even ammunition.

Indian army learned it hard way to not induct half backed products example is Nishant DRONE each and every DRONE crashed and made a history of 100% crash record.

The biathlon isn't for Arjun class tanks.

Arjun belongs to which class Sir?

Probably they accept only successful, inducted operational tanks.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Paper tigers ...


Coming from you

Why do you laugh at my remark? Have you found me baiting Pakistani individuals or the country itself?

Please reply frankly.

I have criticised Pakistani institutions, and shall do so as long as they deserve to be criticised, but that is entirely another matter. And I hope you are not labouring under the impression that I am a 'bhakt'.

 

[KapitaanAli]

Indian army learned it hard way to not induct half backed products example is Nishant DRONE each and every DRONE crashed and made a history of 100% crash record.

Not so smart to write a thesis on four catapult drones that crashed in the heavy Himalayan winds.

Arjun belongs to which class Sir?

Probably they accept only successful, inducted operational tanks.

Arjun is a heavy tank. An easy way is to count the wheels.
Arjun Mk1 completely ruined T90. Its only issue is logistics because of the small order and lack of maintenance facilities.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Not so smart to write a thesis on four catapult drones that crashed in the heavy Himalayan winds.


Arjun is a heavy tank. An easy way is to count the wheels.
Arjun Mk1 completely ruined T90. Its only issue is logistics because of the small order and lack of maintenance facilities.

lolsss

 

[KapitaanAli]

lolsss

It shouldn't be so surprising.
Arjun is a modern heavy tank whereas T90 is a go anywhere tank.
It's unfair towards T90 to compare their capabilities just like it's unfair towards Arjun to compare their weight.

(Even though their power to weight and ground pressure are the same.)

 

[Sharky]

Arjun and tejas two ugly craps. They should be permanently laid to rest a long with every craps who developed or worked on those projects.

 

[Joe Shearer]

not only is is "sad" but it can ruin indigenous development of your own equivalent. some which is being seen in other sectors i.ie gun's howitzers, helicopter, gunships, frigates and heck even ammunition.

It IS ruining indigenous development; I would even say that it is INTENDED to ruin indigenous development.

What observers of South Asian affairs do not seem to understand is the huge difference between the Indian Army and the Pakistani Army.

The Indian Army - actually, the Indian armed forces in general - is NOT free to decide what it will buy and where it will buy from; as it happens, there has been no budget constraint in recent years, until the botched effort of this year. What DOES exist is a painful death by bureaucratic process, and this is also a factor that the Pakistani Army knows nothing about, through their good fortune.

It (the Indian military) has always been inhibited by a sense of isolation; in the 90s, we were unable to fly the Sea King because Britain blocked sales of spares, following the American lead. We HAD no alternative but the Russians, as many people seem to forget; buying American was NOT an option, buying Chinese is to run the grave risk of doing business with the Chinese: it is a graver risk than the Pakistanis realise, until it is too late.

The Pakistani Army, not the Pakistani armed forces in general, IS free to decide what and where to buy. BUT they have an increasingly difficult financial and economic situation, and we have seen how they have had to compromise again and again and again, for the Army, for the Air Force, above all, for the Navy.

If we keep these two mindsets in front of us, it becomes easy to understand why the Indian military DOES NOT want to give their tormentors, the bureaucracy, any opportunity to clamp down on their access to new technology, often the kind of technology that may make the difference between winning and losing the war. They are scared of a bureaucratic-scientific alliance that pretends to be able to perform several times better than it actually can, and therefore constantly tries to keep its avenues to the helpful arms dealer open.

That is why Make In India is bad. It may set a precedent.

 

[faithfulguy]

Arjun and tejas two ugly craps. They should be permanently laid to rest a long with every craps who developed or worked on those projects.

But they were created for bragging purposes. Not for actual war fighting.

 

[war&peace]

Why do you laugh at my remark? Have you found me baiting Pakistani individuals or the country itself?

Please reply frankly.

I have criticised Pakistani institutions, and shall do so as long as they deserve to be criticised, but that is entirely another matter. And I hope you are not labouring under the impression that I am a 'bhakt'.

I found it funny that you called Pakistanis as green chaddies... while we don't even wear chaddies...that's not our culture...we wear pants or shalwar and that's why I say we have a very different culture and you apparently know nothing about sir, if you are not doing it on purpose.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I found it funny that you called Pakistanis as green chaddies... while we don't even wear chaddies...that's not our culture...we wear pants or shalwar and that's why I say we have a very different culture and you apparently know nothing about sir, if you are not doing it on purpose.

Is it that some of you kids have had your sense of humour surgically removed? Don't you get the equivalence to khaki chaddis?