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Donald Trumpy Mentally Unfit Declared by US doctors

...this mentally unsound person was admitted to and graduated from the best universities in the US


Being mentally or emotionally unstable does not mean that one is unintelligent. Keep in mind that George W. Bush was also admitted into one of the best colleges in this country. He turned out to be a terrible leader and poor President. Also, it's been decades since Trump was last an undergraduate.

...this mentally unsound person ran a successful business for decades


Not exactly:

"On the presidential campaign trail, Mr. Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, often boasts of his success in Atlantic City, of how he outwitted the Wall Street firms that financed his casinos and rode the value of his name to riches. A central argument of his candidacy is that he would bring the same business prowess to the Oval Office, doing for America what he did for his companies."

"But even as his companies did poorly, Mr. Trump did well. He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acumen."

"In three interviews with The Times since late April, Mr. Trump acknowledged in general terms that high debt and lagging revenues had plagued his casinos. He did not recall details about some issues, but did not question The Times’s findings. He repeatedly emphasized that what really mattered about his time in Atlantic City was that he had made a lot of money there.

Mr. Trump assembled his casino empire by borrowing money at such high interest rates — after telling regulators he would not — that the businesses had almost no chance to succeed."


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html


He still hasn't released his tax returns either, despite promising to do so. I wonder why...

...this mentally unsound person beat a whole field of over a dozen very talented republican contenders for the nomination


Personally, I think that says more about the present-day Republican Party than it does about Trump, unfortunately.

...this mentally unsound person beat the heir-apparent and immensely favoured democratic opponent for the presidency - on a budget that was about 50% of her budget, zero media support and plenty of foreign opposition


This "heir apparent" (in your mind) was almost equally as disliked as Trump. She was a weak nominee, there's little question about that.


Hillary Clinton Favorable Rating - Polls - HuffPost Pollster.png


Even then, however, he still received nearly 3 million fewer votes than Hillary Clinton on election day.

Hillary received 65,844,954 votes (48%) to Trump's 62,979,879 votes (46%).

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/president


As for the electoral college, he won competitive states that won him the Presidency by very narrow margins as well:

Michigan: 0.3%

Wisconsin: 0.7%

Pennsylvania: 0.7%


And even that was mainly because many Democrats simply stayed home.
 
Those Indians excited about Trump winning and his anti Pakistan rhetoric, you would have achieved a lot more with Hillary at helm of affairs.
 
...this mentally unsound person was admitted to and graduated from the best universities in the US

My opinions on Donald Trump aside...

The University of Pennsylvania (which I'm proud to say is in my hometown of Philadelphia) is in fact one of the best schools in the USA. Especially the Wharton School of Business where Donald attended.

It was my first choice of schools to attend when I got out of high school. Unfortunately, the tuition costs were beyond my means.

I'm not a phycologist, but I do know for a fact that an individual can have a mental illness and still attend a good school. One of my good friends with an unfortunate mental illness attended and graduated from the U of Penn
 
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I see you're quoting the classic liberal media angst that is being widely published by a class of Americans still in disbelief that anyone so far from their ideology could become POTUS. Just to be clear - I dislike Trump - but the arrogance of the left-leaning media and academia is worse.

Anyway onto your responses

Keep in mind that George W. Bush was also admitted into one of the best colleges in this country. He turned out to be a terrible leader and poor President.

Undoubtedly - yet nobody accuses him (Bush) of being mentally unsound. Trump is yet to complete a month in office and the papers would have us believe he should be hospitalized already.

Not exactly:

The NY Times story (like many others) is full of half-truths. Trump has run several businesses and used the bankruptcy law several times. That law (Chp 11) exists for a reason and has been used by several big companies to get debt relief - GM, Marvel, Texaco, Chrysler, UAL - have all used the bankruptcy law to good effect.

This para of the story, in particular, is interesting

"But even as his companies did poorly, Mr. Trump did well. He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acumen."

I agree thats morally wrong but business is a cruel world. Borrowers and banks are always trying to outwit the other and certainly if someone could hoodwink banks, investors and regulators and still flourish he's far from being mentally unsound.

It's important to note that Trump has never been a blue-blood (like the Cabots, Kennedys or the Rockefellers) and never had family connections to power.

He still hasn't released his tax returns either, despite promising to do so. I wonder why...

Maybe he's a crook or a tax evader - doesn't make him mentally unsound. He certainly wouldn't be the first dishonest president.

Personally, I think that says more about the present-day Republican Party than it does about Trump, unfortunately.

Are you kidding? The party has not fielded such a diverse and qualified field in any primary in the the last few decades, if at all. Many of the nominees had well articulated policies, well researched statistics and proven success at political leadership and public administration.

This "heir apparent" (in your mind)

What else do you call someone who served as his Sec State, campaigned as a continuation of his policies and, of course had his unstinted support from the primaries right upto election day. Heck Obama even let her use AF1 and his presidential podium for campaigning - somewhat a breach of ethics.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/05/unprecedented-air-force-one-use-for-a-non-incumbent.html

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/286552-clinton-campaigns-behind-presidential-seal

If you look to the immediate past Bush never campaigned for Romney is such a manner - beyond endorsing him. And Bill Clinton never campaigned for Gore.

Even then, however, he still received nearly 3 million fewer votes than Hillary Clinton on election day.

Nothing to do with his mental health but since you bring it up as a means of delegitimizing his election - know this that that's precisely what the electoral college was designed to do - prevent candidates who were enormously popular in populous states from ignoring smaller sparsely-populated ones. For that matter Trump lost in California and NY combined by 4.5 million votes - your numbers only prove the fears of the founding fathers of the dangers of a direct first-past-the-post election where a candidate was super-popular in just a few states. As it happened Trump won 35 states out of 50.

Edit - corrected a typo
 
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My opinions on Donald Trump aside...

The University of Pennsylvania (which I'm proud to say is in my hometown of Philadelphia) is in fact one of the best schools in the USA. Especially the Wharton School of Business where Donald attended.

It was my first choice of schools to attend when I got out of high school. Unfortunately, the tuition costs were beyond my means.

I'm not a phycologist, but I do know for a fact that an individual can have a mental illness and still attend a good school. One of my good friends with an unfortunate mental illness attended and graduated from the U of Penn

Read my signature. People hate Donald Trump b/c he is honest and believes in making a better America through work instead of the selfishness that surround the Left. He doesn't have a "me" mentality, he's a "we" sort of guy.
 
It is interesting to see who came to the rescue for Donald Trump. Suffice to say, the side effect from the colonialism of British Kingdom is getting noticed here. :D

P.S: Crazy man and crazy followers at work here!!!
 
I see you're quoting the classic liberal media angst that is being widely published by a class of Americans still in disbelief that anyone so far from their ideology could become POTUS. Just to be clear - I dislike Trump - but the arrogance of the left-leaning media and academia is worse.


Let's stay away from this please. There is no "angst" here. Trump is behaving in a way that virtually no other President has in recent memory. That's why many people are upset. His ideology is not the main concern (though it is indeed a concern as well), his temperament is.

Undoubtedly - yet nobody accuses him (Bush) of being mentally unsound. Trump is yet to complete a month in office and the papers would have us believe he should be hospitalized already.


You missed the point. Whether or not he is intelligent, his emotional health is a separate issue.

The NY Times story (like many others) is full of half-truths. Trump has run several businesses and used the bankruptcy law several times. That law (Chp 11) exists for a reason and has been used by several big companies to get debt relief - GM, Marvel, Texaco, Chrysler, UAL - have all used the bankruptcy law to good effect.

This para of the story, in particular, is interesting

"But even as his companies did poorly, Mr. Trump did well. He put up little of his own money, shifted personal debts to the casinos and collected millions of dollars in salary, bonuses and other payments. The burden of his failures fell on investors and others who had bet on his business acumen."

I agree thats morally wrong but business is a cruel world. Borrowers and banks are always trying to outwit the other and certainly if someone could hoodwink banks, investors and regulators and still flourish he's far from being mentally unsound.


It's not about morality (per se), or legality. The point is that Trump is a terrible a businessman. Enriching one's self should not be confused with business acumen. This is what you wrote:
...this mentally unsound person ran a successful business for decades

He ran many unsuccessful businesses for decades.

Maybe he's a crook or a tax evader - doesn't make him mentally unsound. He certainly wouldn't be the first dishonest president.


The point was not that he might be a crook or even dishonest, but that his tax returns likely show just how much of a business failure he really is.

Are you kidding? The party has not fielded such a diverse and qualified field in any primary in the the last few decades, if at all. Many of the nominees had well articulated policies, well researched statistics and proven success at political leadership and public administration.


The field could have definitely been better. Kasich and Cruz were the only two truly viable challengers.

But, I wasn't commenting on the field. What I was saying was that his dominating win in the Republican Primary showed the true colors of many Republicans and illustrated the state of the present-day Republican Party.

What else do you call someone who served as his Sec State, campaigned as a continuation of his policies and, of course had his unstinted support from the primaries right upto election day. Heck Obama even let her use AF1 and his presidential podium for campaigning - somewhat a breach of ethics.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/05/unprecedented-air-force-one-use-for-a-non-incumbent.html

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/286552-clinton-campaigns-behind-presidential-seal

If you look to the immediate past Bush never campaigned for Romney is such a manner - beyond endorsing him. And Bill Clinton never campaigned for Gore.


Many Presidential nominees did not want their political predecessors to campaign for them. In any case, the only point I was making was there is nothing impressive about beating an unpopular nominee.

If he had beaten Bernie Sanders or Obama instead, for example, that would have been much more impressive. Not someone with a net favorability rating of -15 (Hillary Clinton).

Nothing to do with his mental health but since you bring it up as a means of delegitimizing his election - know this that that's precisely what the electoral college was designed to do - prevent candidates who were enormously popular in popular states from ignoring smaller sparsely-populated ones. For that matter Trump lost in California and NY combined by 4.5 million votes - your numbers only prove the fears of the founding fathers of the dangers of a direct first-past-the-post election where a candidate was super-popular in just a few states. As it happened Trump won 35 states out of 50.


I said that to illustrate yet again how unimpressive his performance in November was. He is only the fifth President in US history to lose the popular vote.

As for the Electoral College, it was actually established primarily to keep the people from voting directly for President (the electors would vote instead). Keep in mind that this was a time when the state legislatures elected senators and that only property-owning White males could vote. Things have since changed. The advantage for smaller states wasn't the main reason at all.

And no, it does not protect smaller states at all. It only gives an out-sized influence to "swing states". For example, if Hillary had won Texas (a large state), she would have won the Electoral College. In fact, a nominee can potentially win just 11 states (out of 50 + D.C.), and still win the electoral college. The Electoral College forces the candidates to focus on swing states (especially the big ones), not small states.

His victory in the electoral college wasn't impressive, either:

Trump’s Electoral College Victory Ranks 46th in 58 Elections - The New York Times.png


And he wouldn't have won at all if he lost these states:

Michigan: 0.3% victory

Wisconsin: 0.7% victory

Pennsylvania: 0.7% victory

Not exactly what I'd call an "impressive" victory.


Also, we're all entitled to our opinions:

Screen-shot-2016-11-10-at-9.57.16-AM.png
 
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It's important to note that Trump has never been a blue-blood (like the Cabots, Kennedys or the Rockefellers) and never had family connections to power.

Um, he was born into a wealthy family, and grew up rich. He was very much a "blue-blood". He got his start in his father's business.

"A big part of Donald Trump’s mythology is that he built a real estate empire by himself.

Yet his father, Fred Trump, was at one point one of the richest men in America after constructing apartment complexes for the middle-class in Brooklyn and Queens."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-loan-from-his-father/?utm_term=.93e972aa4685


"Trump's father, Frederick Christ "Fred" Trump, made a sizable fortune by building and selling housing for American soldiers and their families in World War II. It was at his father's real estate company that Donald got his start in business. In 1971, he took control of his father's apartment rental company, Elizabeth Trump & Son Co., and later on, he renamed it The Trump Organization. Trump stuck mostly with real estate investments during this period, particularly condo associations, huge apartment buildings and Federal Housing Administration (FHA)-backed housing, all in the New York metropolitan area."

http://www.investopedia.com/updates/donald-trump-rich/

 
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Wouldn't at all be surprised if he had narcissistic personality disorder.

Narcissism is a form of sociopathy/psychopathy. Which is technically a personality disorder rather than a mental illness.

Being a sociopath is actually very helpful when it comes to fields such as business and politics. Having a lack of human empathy can make individuals more competitive in these fields, and indeed a lot of successful businesspeople, politicians and even judges are sociopaths.

And to be fair, the vast majority of sociopaths never commit a crime. They just happen to lack human empathy.

Personally, after watching an interview from Donald Trump as he was back in the 1980's, I suddenly think that he is a real genius. As he said, the person with the "correct" policies is not the one who will win.


He played everyone for a fool, and won. Not having any empathy is a massive competitive advantange in the fields of business and politics. He wanted to be President, and he did exactly what he needed to do in order to achieve it.
 
Um, he was born into a wealthy family, and grew up rich. He was very much a "blue-blood". He got his start in his father's business.

Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. I meant 'blue blood' to mean a certain class - such as the families I mentioned whose ranks were filled with senators, governors, cabinet members and CEOs - who had close connections with power. Trump's father was successful and he was, of course, born rich but in NY there are plenty of rich people so that in itself did not give him a special lead over other rich kids.

There's a great story that I read some weeks back about how he has always aspired to move around in a social circle that always looked down upon him (such as denying him golf club memberships) - a sort of wannabe - and that explains his attempts to network with the Clintons (amongst others) - much like how Hitler wanted some kind of parity with the UK (unlike his loathing of communism). Sadly I can't remember where it was or I'd post the link.
 
I take it you have no problems with my other post?

https://defence.pk/threads/donald-t...ared-by-us-doctors.478296/page-2#post-9222509

Perhaps I gave the wrong impression. I meant 'blue blood' to mean a certain class - such as the families I mentioned whose ranks were filled with senators, governors, cabinet members and CEOs - who had close connections with power. Trump's father was successful and he was, of course, born rich but in NY there are plenty of rich people so that in itself did not give him a special lead over other rich kids.


Well, most people in NYC were not rich. He, as rich kid, had an infinite amount of opportunities over middle and working class Americans. He did not build his business from the ground up. He took charge of the successful business his rich father built.

There's a great story that I read some weeks back about how he has always aspired to move around in a social circle that always looked down upon him (such as denying him golf club memberships) - a sort of wannabe - and that explains his attempts to network with the Clintons (amongst others) - much like how Hitler wanted some kind of parity with the UK (unlike his loathing of communism). Sadly I can't remember where it was or I'd post the link.


Well, I certainly don't have any sympathy for him. Few people get to the live the lifestyle he did. Bill Clinton was not wealthy until after his Presidency, though Hillary grew up in a rich family. But even she did not become wealthy while she was married to Bill (until after his Presidency).
 
Wouldn't at all be surprised if he had narcissistic personality disorder.

Pfft don't need a psychiatrist for that diagnosis, an IQ above 50 will do.

Read my signature. People hate Donald Trump b/c he is honest and believes in making a better America through work instead of the selfishness that surround the Left. He doesn't have a "me" mentality, he's a "we" sort of guy.

Have you woken up from dream land yet?

Narcissism is a form of sociopathy/psychopathy. Which is technically a personality disorder rather than a mental illness.

Being a sociopath is actually very helpful when it comes to fields such as business and politics. Having a lack of human empathy can make individuals more competitive in these fields, and indeed a lot of successful businesspeople, politicians and even judges are sociopaths.

And to be fair, the vast majority of sociopaths never commit a crime. They just happen to lack human empathy.

Personally, after watching an interview from Donald Trump as he was back in the 1980's, I suddenly think that he is a real genius. As he said, the person with the "correct" policies is not the one who will win.


He played everyone for a fool, and won. Not having any empathy is a massive competitive advantange in the fields of business and politics. He wanted to be President, and he did exactly what he needed to do in order to achieve it.

Think you had a little mix up there buddy, sociopaths DO have empathy, but it just tends to be very warped. Psychopaths are the guys who lack empathy in total. Key difference.

Also, psychopaths typically lack other emotions as well and are mostly just fed up the world. Just imagine that feeling when you lose a really close game on like a video game or something, only difference being that fustration never leaves. Yeah, I'd be prone to murdering people too.
 
Think you had a little mix up there buddy, sociopaths DO have empathy, but it just tends to be very warped. Psychopaths are the guys who lack empathy in total. Key difference.

Also, psychopaths typically lack other emotions as well and are mostly just fed up the world. Just imagine that feeling when you lose a really close game on like a video game or something, only difference being that fustration never leaves. Yeah, I'd be prone to murdering people too.

Really? Everytime I search for Sociopathy it says it's the same thing as Psychopathy.

Anyway it's not really my field so I can't say too much about the differences.
 
“Make America great again”
Trump is a great president
The American people love him very much :D
 
Let's stay away from this please. There is no "angst" here. Trump is behaving in a way that virtually no other President has in recent memory. That's why many people are upset. His ideology is not the main concern (though it is indeed a concern as well), his temperament is.
I take it you have no problems with my other post?

Oops - I missed that, responding now.

You missed the point. Whether or not he is intelligent, his emotional health is a separate issue.

No, I was merely saying that Bush 43 was a bad president - but no one called him mentally unsound (despite initiating a bunch of wars,lying about Iraq and costing the taxpayer trillions).

It's not about morality (per se), or legality. The point is that Trump is a terrible a businessman. Enriching one's self should not be confused with business acumen. This is what you wrote:

The point was not that he might be a crook or even dishonest, but that his tax returns likely show just how much of a business failure he really is.

I don't understand how you pass judgment that Trump is a terrible businessman.

Trump's core business has been real estate - a cyclical sector. His business was indebted for nearly $3.4 bn in the 90s but by the mid-90s he had leveraged his position sufficiently well to recover - taking advantage of carry-forward of losses (a common taxation benefit) to save on income tax. By 2016 Forbes put his net worth in the billions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/nyregion/donald-trump-taxes-debt.html?_r=0

Since you reside in the US you would know that commercial deals are enforced quite strictly here and foreclosure is common. Unlike India or Pakistan defaulters in the US don't have it easy nor is evading recovery process simple. I believe that if Trump really was legally obligated to banks or investors he'd be finished long ago.

The tax returns would simply show his massive use of carrying forward past losses which might be optically bad but its the law (ironically the tax evasion would then consist of false losses - showing a healthier business than declared).

But, I wasn't commenting on the field. What I was saying was that his dominating win in the Republican Primary showed the true colors of many Republicans and illustrated the state of the present-day Republican Party.

I guess your statement is an omnibus ex post conclusion that could be true of any party, any election.

He is only the fifth President in US history to lose the popular vote.

As for the Electoral College, it was actually established primarily to keep the people from voting directly for President (the electors would vote instead). Keep in mind that this was a time when the state legislatures elected senators and that only property-owning White males could vote. Things have since changed. The advantage for smaller states wasn't the main reason at all.

it does not protect smaller states at all. It only gives an out-sized influence to "swing states"

The origin of the electoral college is not a matter of conjecture, it was put in place for a single well-documented reason - the fear of less populous states of being made irrelevant by a direct aggregated election- a matter of great concern in what was then a federation. I don't know about Pakistan but in India something similar happens when parties campaign excessively in U.P., Bengal, Bihar Maharashtra (the populous states) and ignore the smaller states like Goa, Chhatisgarh, Uttarkhand, the NE states, etc.

We can debate whether this is good or bad but that's the system. If the founding fathers wanted a positive correlation between electoral college victory and popular vote the college would have been redundant.

Well, most people in NYC were not rich. He, as rich kid, had an infinite amount of opportunities over middle and working class Americans. He did not build his business from the ground up. He took charge of the successful business his rich father built.

My limited point was simply this - NYC has always had plenty of successful, rich people. Trump's dad's estate was valued at $300 mn in 1999 (indexed to $450 mn today). While that's big by S Asian standards it's not an extraordinary sum then (Bill Gates was valued at $90 bn in 1999). More importantly his family did not wield influence in US policy / government circles.

You don't get from a kid with a 33% share in a $300 mn estate to being valued at a $4 bn by Forbes without a good degree of success. Granted that success may be by exploiting legal loopholes, being unscrupulous and immoral - (no worse than, say, the way the Saudis became billionaires many times over by creating OOEC to manipulate the oil market) - but it's not something a mentally unbalanced person would be able to do.

Anyway the duplicity of the liberal media is evident in the timing of these claims. Trump has been around for many years in his current avatar - why the move to brand him medically unfit right suddenly now after becoming POTUS?
 

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