Don’t extend Tejas deadline, Antony tells DRDO

[Cyberian]

lol, this is the mindset of the lazy,uninspired and unimaginative.



(sort of) fits:



“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”
― Thomas A. Edison


This is the FIRST time India has ever embarked on anything of this scale. It is not just the plane the DRDO/ADA/HAL have had to develop but the entire ecosystem of support that goes with such programs.



In reality the idea the LCA is a failed project is pure fantasy in the eyes of all but the ignorant. The targets the program have failed to meet where internal targets that were arbitrarily created early on before the exact scale of the project was known and before the IAF had started asking for a 4.5++ gen multi-role fighter. If you look at the Typhoon,Rafale, PAK-FA and F-22 projects you will see a development timeline not too dissimilar to the LCA's which isn't bad considering all the above projects were undertaken by nations with extensive aerospace experience and industrial base. The ADA/DRDO have developed some genuinely world-class tech on the LCA and devised some truly innovative and ground-breaking design and testing techniques in the process. All this with crippling sanctions and a fraction of the budget of the aforementioned projects.


Additionally a nation developing its first super-sonic multi-role fighter without having a single crash during the entire duration of its intensive testing program is virtually unheard of.



It is very easy to criticise but much harder to actually do. I genuinely would love to see Pakistan undertake such a project- less barking from Pakistan and more doing.



Salaam

Salaam to all the Muslims,



I am not saying India should not be imaginative. I am saying start from small scale projects, gain experience and move up the ladder.

Take for example, India's space program is commendable from a Pakistani point of view. Where India is today in this field is because they started on small scale experiments decades ago, they used all that experience and slowly moved to the advanced stages. Hats off.

But, how on Earth did India started imagining that they had the capability of designing and building a fourth generation aircraft with an indigenous failed Kaveri engine, when they couldn't even build a first, second or a third generation aircraft is beyond me?

All that money and manpower totally wasted.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Salaam to all the Muslims,



I am not saying India should not be imaginative. I am saying start from small scale projects, gain experience and move up the ladder.

Take for example, India's space program is commendable from a Pakistani point of view. Where India is today in this field is because they started on small scale experiments decades ago, they used all that experience and slowly moved to the advanced stages. Hats off.

But, how on Earth did India started imagining that they had the capability of designing and building a fourth generation aircraft with an indigenous failed Kaveri engine, when they couldn't even build a first, second or a third generation aircraft is beyond me?

All that money and manpower totally wasted.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

How is it a waste of money when India has achieved its goal of developing an advanced 4.5++ multi-role supersonic fighter jet? 20 years from the start of work (properly) to induction into active service (1995-2015) isn't bad by anyone's measure and especially for a first try from a nation with 0 practically technical base prior to 1995. India was ambitious but succeeded.

 

[Cyberian]

How is it a waste of money when India has achieved its goal of developing an advanced 4.5++ multi-role supersonic fighter jet? 20 years from the start of work (properly) to induction into active service (1995-2015) isn't bad by anyone's measure and especially for a first try from a nation with 0 practically technical base prior to 1995. India was ambitious but succeeded.

Salaam to all the Muslims,



Nonsense.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Salaam to all the Muslims,



Nonsense.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

Care to explain?

 

[Storm Force]

Suparco. Re Indian indengioud fighter first do some research on marut and ajeet fighters whichindia designed in the 1960s
I also suggest you read up on the license manufacture of migs jags and today
andtejas program started this huge base developmentthe massive su30 mki program. Coming bak to tejas its a massivepi success story India now has the infrastructure to build future combat planes ucav

 

[Abingdonboy]

@SUPARCO on second thought don't bother explaining. If you haven't understood what I wrote in post #14 then I'm not going to bang my head against a brick wall any longer, good night.

 

[faithfulguy]

It is not crisis... The requirements for Tejas dynamically changing... and the HAL is not able to achieve it in time... until a decade ago HAL doesn't have this much economical sources....

Has the requirement of LCA changed in the last 5 years. Otherwise, why push back the induction date?

The real reason is that DRDO is not capable of providing a proper time line as when its ships would be ready.

It will help a lot in amca.

After the LCA experience, I don't think there is any stomach for AMCA. Especially PAKFA is available.

 

[danger007]

Has the requirement of LCA changed in the last 5 years. Otherwise, why push back the induction date?

The real reason is that DRDO is not capable of providing a proper time line as when its ships would be ready.

yes IAF requirement changing period to period... it is HAL ... which is not able to meet the goal in certain period... so the delays continues... we never build 4th gen Jets... and the availability of fund started since a decade...

 

[faithfulguy]

yes IAF requirement changing period to period... it is HAL ... which is not able to meet the goal in certain period... so the delays continues... we never build 4th gen Jets... and the availability of fund started since a decade...

any in the last 5 years?

 

[danger007]

Has the requirement of LCA changed in the last 5 years. Otherwise, why push back the induction date?

The real reason is that DRDO is not capable of providing a proper time line as when its ships would be ready.



After the LCA experience, I don't think there is any stomach for AMCA. Especially PAKFA is available.

, @Abingdonboy


FGFA is available from 18 to 20 time frame... Yes we surely go for AMCA... that will be from 2025 to 2030...

any in the last 5 years?

you better ask @sancho

 

[Abingdonboy]

The real reason is that DRDO is not capable of providing a proper time line as when its ships would be ready.

Same with, F-22, F-35, Rafale, EFT, PAK-FA, GRIPEN-NG etc etc Timelines slip, problems that were not even thought of at conception rear their ugly heads', things take longer than expected etc etc. Change the record.

After the LCA experience, I don't think there is any stomach for AMCA. Especially PAKFA is available.

Right.................................

 

[MST]

they are mad a bit..... hungry for new projects

That is because new projects bring in more money and more media focus. More chances for its Chief to brag about. Its a cultural problem in DRDO where those who talk get rewarded while those who do serious hardwork don't. You can see this culture starting from its chief V.K Saraswat.

This whole organization is a disaster and should be scrapped and its chief should be fired. It should reorganized on the lines of ISRO. But then that won't happen. We will keep hearing new projects announced while old ones will be laggin by decades. Get used to this culture.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Salaam to all the Muslims,



I am not saying India should not be imaginative. I am saying start from small scale projects, gain experience and move up the ladder.

Take for example, India's space program is commendable from a Pakistani point of view. Where India is today in this field is because they started on small scale experiments decades ago, they used all that experience and slowly moved to the advanced stages. Hats off.

But, how on Earth did India started imagining that they had the capability of designing and building a fourth generation aircraft with an indigenous failed Kaveri engine, when they couldn't even build a first, second or a third generation aircraft is beyond me?

All that money and manpower totally wasted.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

It wasn't all small scale, on at least 4 occasions large jumps were made. In any case this lecture is pointless- India is a big coun try and will always try to attack things with scale rather than pussyfooting around.

Has the requirement of LCA changed in the last 5 years. Otherwise, why push back the induction date?

The real reason is that DRDO is not capable of providing a proper time line as when its ships would be ready.



After the LCA experience, I don't think there is any stomach for AMCA. Especially PAKFA is available.

you don't know much stuff about this do you?

 

[bloo]

Salaam to all the Muslims,



I am not saying India should not be imaginative. I am saying start from small scale projects, gain experience and move up the ladder.

Take for example, India's space program is commendable from a Pakistani point of view. Where India is today in this field is because they started on small scale experiments decades ago, they used all that experience and slowly moved to the advanced stages. Hats off.

But, how on Earth did India started imagining that they had the capability of designing and building a fourth generation aircraft with an indigenous failed Kaveri engine, when they couldn't even build a first, second or a third generation aircraft is beyond me?

All that money and manpower totally wasted.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

What makes you think India hasn't even built a third generation aircraft?
Forgot about the kickass HAL HF-24 Marut............?

And what makes you think that Kaveri has failed?

Kaveri Successfully Completes Official Altitude Testing, Demonstrates First Block Of Flight In Flying Test Bed (FTB) : Indian Defence Minister In Parliament

In Lok Sabha today Defence Minister A K Antony gave an update on the progress made by the Kaveri Engine Development Project as follows:

(i) So far, 9 prototypes of Kaveri Engine and 4 prototypes of Kabani (Core) Engine have been developed.
(ii) 2200 hours of test (ground and altitude conditions) has been conducted.
(iii) The following two major milestones have been achieved:-

---Successful completion of Official Altitude Testing (OAT) ; and
---Demonstration of First Block of flight of Kaveri Engine in Flying Test Bed (FTB).

Kaveri Engine was integrated with IL-76 Aircraft at Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI), Russia and flight test was successfully carried out upto 12 km maximum altitude and maximum forward speed of 0.7 Mach No. Twenty Seven flights for 57 hours duration have been completed.

DRDO demonstrated its technological capability in aero-engine technology. This has been a great achievement in the aerospace community of the country, when the first ever indigenously developed fighter aircraft engine was subjected to flight testing. Tacit knowledge acquired by the DRDO scientists during this project will also be applied for further aerospace technology. Kaveri spin-off engine can be used as propulsion system for Indian Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle (USAV).

The project was sanctioned in March 1989 at an estimated cost of Rs.382.81 Crore and Probable Date of Completion (PDC) of December 1996. The PDC was extended to December 2009 and cost was revised and enhanced to Rs.2839 Crore. So far, Rs.1996 Crore has been utilized in this project
This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri Uday Singh in Lok Sabha today.

 

[Anony]

Salaam to all the Muslims,



I am not saying India should not be imaginative. I am saying start from small scale projects, gain experience and move up the ladder.

Take for example, India's space program is commendable from a Pakistani point of view. Where India is today in this field is because they started on small scale experiments decades ago, they used all that experience and slowly moved to the advanced stages. Hats off.

But, how on Earth did India started imagining that they had the capability of designing and building a fourth generation aircraft with an indigenous failed Kaveri engine, when they couldn't even build a first, second or a third generation aircraft is beyond me?

All that money and manpower totally wasted.

Salaam to all the Muslims.

Bug-eon out you troller. First read the requirement of PAF and IAF and the capabilities of fighter they have. JF-17 is going to be your front line fighter which is still inferior than Tejas mk1. So don't troll and for a nation which don't have the capability to build a helicopter on their own, shouldn't enchant to other's nation aviation industry capability which is way ahead of yours.

And we not only dreamt, we have already built true 4th gen fighter. For the extra, AESA radar, low visibilty are not the characteristics of 4th gen fighter but 4.5 gen fighter.

Yes we failed to design indigenous fighter engine, but we have learn a lot out of it. Derivatives of the engine will be used in marine field, to power UCAV,etc. Actually kaveri may have failed to power LCA but it has given the nation enough learning opportunity.