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Domestic & Social Crimes [Mob/ Vigilante justice] Thread

Gin, you trying to derail the thread? Why not open another thread for India related issues?

Yes, but after seeing Indian lecturing Pakistanis as they are the good guys in this sorry state of minorities in Sub continent and reply to post by Death.By.Chocolate

Originally Posted by Death.By.Chocolate View Post
They will likely be better off seems to me Indian law does a better job of protecting its minorities.

so don't blame me I didn't stared it Death.By.Chocolate did

Coming back to topic I think Pakistan is not a safe place for Ahmedis and they all should move out.
 
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suddenly sardar ji and meensa are on the back foot :rofl:

btw next time try n bring up some reports from authentic media regarding religious violence (try amnesty international)

well played guys!!!!!
 
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Coming back to topic I think Pakistan is not a safe place for Ahmedis and they all should move out. it was PPP who declared them as non Muslims in 70s
 
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Coming back to topic I think Pakistan is not a safe place for Ahmedis and they all should move out.

...and how does it reflect upon Pakistan, Pakistanis and Islam?

Doesn't it proof conclusively that religious ideology prevalent in Pakistan is an ideology of terror and hate? And Pakistanis should get rid of it asap and adopt a better ideology, instead?

You have just identified the real culprit. Its not Ahmadis or other persecuted, rather the idealogy behind the persecution.
 
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...and how does it reflect upon Pakistan, Pakistanis and Islam?

Doesn't it proof conclusively that Islam is a religion of terror and hate? And Pakistanis should get rid of it asap and get a better set of ideology, instead?

War on terror has brought more extremism in the world and its the after effects of WOT that Pakistan is no more a safe place to live specially for minorities.
US is planing to run in 2011 and extremism will increase as winner.

Every one make fun of Imran but he is right war is no solution for extremism.
 
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War on terror has brought more extremism in the world and its the after effects of WOT that Pakistan is no more a safe place to live specially for minorities.
US is planing to run in 2011 and extremism will increase as winner.

Every one make fun of Imran but he is right war is no solution for extremism.

If violence begets violence then how come Ahmadis and other persecuted are not replying in kind?

War on terror, poverty etc etc are just excuses. Its the idealogy!
 
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If violence begets violence then how come Ahmadis and other persecuted are not replying in kind?

War on terror, poverty etc etc are just excuses. Its the idealogy!

Oh no , Ahmadis have a very well organized front in west against Muslims they are playing proxy war. There is always two side of a story.

Just tell me how many Muslims have died in last fifty years in Bosnian , Iraq, Afghanistan , Palestine , Kashmir and Pakistan by non Muslims ?
 
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Oh no , Ahmadis have a very well organized front in west against Muslims they are playing proxy war. There is always two side of a story.

Really how? Can you show anything for which Ahmadis can be brought to court, with evidence? If they are merely saying they are being persecuted then this is their just right like that of Kashmiris and Palestinians, they can't be blamed for that. Still you are welcome to show anything illegal from their side.

Just tell me how many Muslims have died in last fifty years in Bosnian , Iraq, Afghanistan , Palestine , Kashmir and Pakistan by non Muslims ?

How does that exonerate Pakistanis and religious ideology prevalent in Pakistan; the cause of so many killings and persecution?

Also Ahmadis are being persecuted since way back when, 1953 to be precise, when war on terror was no where so it's not a factor. The reason is clearly the religious ideology in Pakistan, no point beating about the bush.
 
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Oh no , Ahmadis have a very well organized front in west against Muslims they are playing proxy war. There is always two side of a story.[/QUOTE}

Really how? Can you show anything for which Ahmadis can be brought to court, with evidence? If they are merely saying they are being persecuted then this is their just right like that of Kashmiris and Palestinians, they can't be blamed for that. Still you are welcome to show anything illegal from their side.



How does that exonerate Pakistanis and the religious ideology prevalent in Pakistan?

Also Ahmadis are being persecuted since way back when, 1953 to be precise, when war on terror was no were so it's not a factor. The reason is clearly the religious ideology, no point beating about the bush.

Don't paint every one with one brush , please.

Ahmadis promise west to convert people in Pakistan and get money for that , as you said change religious ideology and that's what they are doing with western support.

Many become Ahmadis in Pakistan for money and wealth promise to them.
 
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Don't paint every one with one brush , please.

Ahmadis promise west to convert people in Pakistan and get money for that , as you said change religious ideology and that's what they are doing with western support.

Can you provide some evidence of any of the promises to the west and getting money for it? I hope you are not resorting to conspiracy theories after running out of arguments. Hope to see some evidence of your allegations. Also has this been proven in any of the courts? If not why not take Ahmadis to court if any real proof of these allegations exists?
 
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Now you bigots are going to hate this and your Jamaat-e-Islami Conspiracies will be put to shame.

Mohammed Ali Jinnah, Founder of Pakistan was himself convinced by an Ahmadi to return to India and fight for Pakistan when he had become disenchanted by the movement and moved away.

Chowk: Current Affairs: Restoring the Civil Rights of Ahmadis

By a Pakistani

(The writer is a lawyer and a participant in the lawyer's movement. He has asked to keep his identity secret for the fear of persecution.)

The events in Punjab Medical College in Faisalabad recently have brought to the forefront once again a very important and yet neglected issue which continues to blacken our collective conscience as a nation. The expulsion of 23 students for allegedly preaching their faith underscored the sickness that has crept into the majority in this country bringing bad name to the country and the faith of Islam as well. There is need for serious inquiry as to whether this pathetic state of affairs will be allowed to continue and will the Ahmadis continue to be the victims of Pakistan's version of Jim Crow Laws aided and abetted by a PC0-ed judiciary passing numerous "Dredd Scott" like decisions.

The persecution of Ahmadis even under the present mangled constitution is patently unconstitutional. A fair court of law would have noticed and pounced on the Ahmadi-specific legislation that has crept into our statute books for every single one of these laws violate a couple dozen fundamental rights accorded to the citizens of Pakistan not the least Article 20 which gives every citizen the right to practice and propagate his or her religion without any caveats. The rot however began with Bhutto's 2nd Amendment which declared Ahmadis Non-Muslim. His law minister, Mr. Abdul Hafeez Pirzada, proved himself to be a poor constitutional lawyer when he declared that the National Assembly was sovereign and could take such a step. The correct legal position was that of Sir Zafrullah Khan, erstwhile Pakistani foreign minister and one of the authors of the Lahore Resolution, who argued that it was beyond the scope of the National Assembly to determine the faith of an individual especially under the Constitution of 1973. Even the Islamic provisions of the constitution of 1973 were to be interpreted according to each sect's understanding and Ahmadis being an established Muslim sect in 1973 were entitled to their own interpretation of the Quran and Sunnah.

Ahmadis were also very much Muslim when the Government of Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place in 1947 as a counterweight to Sikh claims to their holy sites in Pakistan. No less a person than Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Pakistan's founding father, had declared unequivocally on the Ahmadi issue that anyone who calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim and that anyone who says otherwise is conspiring against the Muslim cause. It is little known that Jinnah was finally persuaded to return to India and lead the Muslim League by Mr. Ibrahim Dard, the Imam of the London Ahmaddiya Mosque in the 1930s. The future founder of Pakistan had gone to and prayed behind the Ahmaddiya mosque unaware that the country he was about to create in two decades would one day make such an act punishable under law. If he was to time travel into the future, he would probably abandon the whole Pakistan project altogether.

Every single act of persecution against Ahmadis is quite unjustifiably laid at the door of the idea of Pakistan. Unjustifiably because those at the fore front of the "Persecute Ahmadis movement" are the same people who bitterly opposed Pakistan and considered Jinnah as big a Kafir as they consider the Ahmadis. The first occurrence of the anti-Ahmaddiya feeling on record is a report by a Muslim League activist who found that in the tribal areas, Fakir of Ipi and other pro-Congress Mullah elements had begun to describe the Muslim League as a bastion of "Qadiyanism". The same feeling has persisted. Majlis-e-Ahrar that led the anti-Ahmaddiya movement in 1953-1954 was the biggest Congress ally before partition. Jamaat-e-Islami chief Maududi had dismissed Jinnah and others as too secular and westernized to properly lead the Muslims. The biggest persecutors of Ahmadis i.e. Darul-Uloom-Deoband and their cronies owe their very political existence to Mahatma Gandhi who introduced these Mullahs in the Khilafat movement- out of which arose the Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind- the forerunner of all fundamentalist and militant movements in South Asia and beyond.

The idea that a majority can dictate to a minority what it is or isn't allowed to call itself is the very anti-thesis of the principle Pakistan was created on. Pakistan was created on the idea that a permanent majority cannot by sheer numeric strength dominate and dictate to a permanent minority. The anti-Ahmaddiya legislation flies in face of the whole Pakistan idea, leading to at least one perceptive commentator calling the second amendment to the constitution in 1974 nothing less than the death of Pakistan. That a PPP government was in charge and Pakistan's brightest Prime Minister was in power makes that event even more ironic. Bhutto perhaps had no other option. Had he resisted it, the establishment would have used the issue to dismiss Bhutto the same way they dismissed Khawaja Nazimuddin and the Muslim League government in 1953. Of course Bhutto fell three years later and atleast the rotund and very religious Nazimuddin does not carry the blot of being the Prime Minister who persecuted a group of people based on their faith. Great responsibility lies on the shoulders of the Pakistan People's Party to undo its heinous mistake and clear up the good name of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto once and for all. It has an excellent opportunity to undo a historic wrong.
Remember the issue is not, and it has never been, whether anyone agrees with Ahmadis or considers them Muslim. It is one's right to hold an opinion but that opinion cannot be imposed no matter what force of majority is behind it. The issue is- as it has always been- what Ahmadis consider themselves. No construction of Article 20 of the constitution can deny them the right to call themselves Muslims and by settled law fundamental rights are the over-riding feature of any written constitution. Therefore the second amendment itself is unconstitutional and illegal, not to mention the antithesis of Pakistan and its idealism. It is also an issue that cuts deep into our aspiration to be a civilized and tolerant society based on rule of law. The actions of those who had always opposed Pakistan and its founder are beginning to taint the very ideal to utter joy of our enemies home and abroad. It is time for Pakistanis to stand up and be counted.
 
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Among many Ahmadis who are in high positions in Pakistan, usually promoted for their loyalty and knowledge by the Pakistani Elite themselves was the great Muhammad Zafrulla Khan.

The first person and a great Pakistani to speak for the cause of Palestinians, this speaks a lot and i do not believe those fake conspiracy books.

And Ahmadi's were the ones who fought for Kashmir in 1948 for it to be a part of Pakistan. I just found all this and should shut up the extremists we have among us.

9 -11 -1948 Jinnah's death, Ahmadiyya role in Kashmir, Afghanistan and Pakistan - Audarya Fellowship
 
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Black blood, you damn coward Arab loving loser, do not and I mean do not ever again speak for all pakistanis with those despicable hate filled comments.

It's because of cowards like you we are in a mess, and once people like you pass then things will get better.

What a damn fool. Stupid extremist.

You are reported ------:D
 
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