Does PAF need (Strategic) Bombers?

[ice_man]

bombers are a very good thing when you have complete air superiority in modern day it can be achieved in afghanistan where you can fly unopposed or in iraq! or like in pakistans scenario if we bomb OVER OWN LAND!

bombers in current war scenario is helpless flying junk that needs escorts....means more planes tied down in protecting the bombers! from enemy fighters.... leaving you with less and lesss fighters to engage the enemy....

besides in modern day scenarios with smart bombs that have BVR( and i am talking in terms of air to ground people here think BVR is only AIR to AIR) you don't need a bomber period!

 

[Moscow]

considering most aircrafts now a days are multirole specific bombers are not the in thing its a cold war reminiscent

 

[gambit]

People must keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of air power is not to attack enemy air power but against enemy GROUND FORCES. We create dedicated systems and multi-role systems to meet objectives that hopefully would eventually allow us unrestricted access to enemy ground forces FROM the third dimension. With unrestricted access come unrestrained power and hopefully a sooner than later resolution to the conflict.

The bomber is one dedicated system that allow us to deliver unrestrained power to enemy ground forces. The air superiority fighter allow us to achieve control and access to the airspace over the ground space where the enemy ground forces resides. The fighter-bomber give us flexibility in both spaces when needed. Those who have experienced a period of 'carpet bombing', no matter how brief, will understand why combat hardened soldiers went mad or give up fighting under prolonged bombings. The bomber is not an obsolete system.

 

[batmannow]

People must keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of air power is not to attack enemy air power but against enemy GROUND FORCES. We create dedicated systems and multi-role systems to meet objectives that hopefully would eventually allow us unrestricted access to enemy ground forces FROM the third dimension. With unrestricted access come unrestrained power and hopefully a sooner than later resolution to the conflict.

The bomber is one dedicated system that allow us to deliver unrestrained power to enemy ground forces. The air superiority fighter allow us to achieve control and access to the airspace over the ground space where the enemy ground forces resides. The fighter-bomber give us flexibility in both spaces when needed. Those who have experienced a period of 'carpet bombing', no matter how brief, will understand why combat hardened soldiers went mad or give up fighting under prolonged bombings. The bomber is not an obsolete system.

Dear gambit; sir!
My Angel , where were you so long , waited to read this kind of, defination , which can clean the minds & the hearts of the respected , members that, why PAF needs a "Dam Strategic) Bomber".
when you are , up against a enemy , which has a natural cover , i mean mountains , hard & rough grounds, thn its time , for "CARPET BOMBINGS" which can destroy, enemy's regrouping capability!
USAF did a termendous job in "TORA BORA" REGION, WITH the help of unstoped carpet bombings, infact that was the real blow, which made "TALIBAN" run for thier lives & later they have to withdraw from thier open positions.i still belive , that PAKISTAN needs a "Deadly punch" To clean the resisting pockets of talibans in "WAZIRISTAN" & we need a bomber doing round the clock , rain of "DAZY CUTTERS"
what you , say my man!

 

[gambit]

Dear gambit; sir!
My Angel , where were you so long , waited to read this kind of, defination , which can clean the minds & the hearts of the respected , members that, why PAF needs a "Dam Strategic) Bomber".
when you are , up against a enemy , which has a natural cover , i mean mountains , hard & rough grounds, thn its time , for "CARPET BOMBINGS" which can destroy, enemy's regrouping capability!
USAF did a termendous job in "TORA BORA" REGION, WITH the help of unstoped carpet bombings, infact that was the real blow, which made "TALIBAN" run for thier lives & later they have to withdraw from thier open positions.i still belive , that PAKISTAN needs a "Deadly punch" To clean the resisting pockets of talibans in "WAZIRISTAN" & we need a bomber doing round the clock , rain of "DAZY CUTTERS"
what you , say my man!

We can try this...

Battle of Tora Bora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A former Delta Force commander, using the pen name "Dalton Fury", who was present at Tora Bora has revealed in a book that bin Laden escaped into Pakistan on or around December 16, 2001. Fury gives three reasons for why bin Laden was able to escape: (1) the US mistakenly thought that Pakistan was effectively guarding the border area, (2) NATO allies refused to allow the use of air-dropped GATOR mines, which would have helped seal bin Laden and his forces inside the Tora Bora area, and (3) overreliance on native Afghan military forces as the main force deployed against bin Laden and his fighters. Fury states that the Afghan forces would usually quit the battlefield in the evenings to break their Ramadan fasts, thereby allowing the al-Qaeda forces a chance to regroup, reposition, or escape.

Fury reports that bin Laden, in his radio calls which began in the afternoon of December 13, was clearly under duress, reportedly saying to his fighters, "the time is now, arm your women and children against the infidel". Then, after a few hours of enduring massive and accurate aerial bombing, he broke radio silence again to say "Our prayers were not answered. Times are dire and bad. We did not get support from the apostate nations who call themselves our Muslim brothers. Things might have been different." Fury describes that Bin Laden's final words to his fighters on that night were "I'm sorry for getting you involved in this battle, if you can no longer resist, you may surrender with my blessing".

Iraqis troops, no longer credible 'forces', surrendered to drones and reporters, after days of living in underground bunkers and lived thru the bombings. Losing sleep is one thing, but losing sleep because of constant loud noises and the earth moving is another. It is said that anticipating the pain is just as psychologically stressful as enduring the pain itself, so the 'carpet bombing' periods in Desert Storm against Iraqi ground troops were deliberately unevenly timed to keep Iraqis troops not only unrested but also on edge because they could not help but to anticipate the next bombing run. Bombs are cheap compared to one's own soldiers.

 

[gambit]

So now that we are clear on the role or ultimate purpose of a 'bomber', an aircraft that does nothing but try to carry as much bombs as possible and does nothing else but drop them, the obvious question is what in the world is a 'strategic bomber'. To have some clarity on that question, we have to ask what is meant by the word 'strategic'. The word DOES NOT mean to attack the enemy's means to wage war, the means are soldiers, obviously weapons such as rifles, tanks, ships or aircrafts. The word 'strategic' imply SOURCES that the enemy can draw upon to devise the means to wage war.

Schweinfurt?Regensburg mission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 1st Bombardment Wing, following it, would turn northeast and bomb the ball-bearing factories of Schweinfurt (where almost the entire production of bearings was centralized) and by doing so catch German fighter aircraft on the ground re-arming and refueling.

Can anyone be killed by with ball bearings? Only if a ton of ball bearings is dropped on him, or if the bearings are propelled at high speed by explosives such as from a shotgun shell or from a pack of dynamite. But then the death count would be only one. By destroying the factory that create the ball bearings, in the long term, the enemy will be unable to support complex machines that are the means of waging a war. The effects of the attack is not immediate. One's own soldiers will continue to die on the battlefields. Current inventories of ball bearings will continue to sustain the enemy's war waging capabilities for some time, killing more of one's own troops. Strategic targets are usually in the enemy's homeland, making the need for a strategic bomber obvious. The desired abilities are as high cruising speed as possible, as high a payload capacity as possible, as accurate the delivery mean as possible and as few operators as possible.

The ball bearing factory is one source of the enemy's war waging capabilities. Keep in mind that a soldier is a mean, so humans is another source. Hence the reasoning that eventually led to the terrifying city bombing campaigns of WW II done by both sides in both theaters of the war. Electricity is another source. Weapons factories are more sources. Of all the sources an enemy can draw upon to wage a war, the most important is the human source. Look at the current suicide bombings and see how emotionally charged is the issue of killing non-combatants on the enemy's home turf. The bomber aircraft, the long range ballistic missile, and the human suicide bomber are 'strategic' weapon systems that attack the enemy's sources.

So while it is clear that there are benefits of having a dedicated weapon system that does nothing but rain explosives upon the enemy, it is not clear if Pakistan 'need' to convert the mission of such a base weapon system into a strategic weapon system. The B-52 can drop bombs on soldiers as well as civilians.

 

[ice_man]

People must keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of air power is not to attack enemy air power but against enemy GROUND FORCES. We create dedicated systems and multi-role systems to meet objectives that hopefully would eventually allow us unrestricted access to enemy ground forces FROM the third dimension. With unrestricted access come unrestrained power and hopefully a sooner than later resolution to the conflict.

The bomber is one dedicated system that allow us to deliver unrestrained power to enemy ground forces. The air superiority fighter allow us to achieve control and access to the airspace over the ground space where the enemy ground forces resides. The fighter-bomber give us flexibility in both spaces when needed. Those who have experienced a period of 'carpet bombing', no matter how brief, will understand why combat hardened soldiers went mad or give up fighting under prolonged bombings. The bomber is not an obsolete system.

spoken like a true American my friend! Like i said inorder to continous carpet bomb your enemy means you need to have complete air SUPREMACY yes i say supremacy because you can go for carpet bombing when you are unchallenged in the air. Now this was achieved in Afghanistan by the US in "hostile" air where ofcourse there was no fighter taking off to challenge the US.

it was also achieved over Iraq well...that was due to iraq military's incompetence!

in a more evenly matched scenario or close to evenly matched i doubt anyone can go for carpet bombing...a bomber platform is slow & unprotected which cannot lumber over enemy terrain specially when SAM batteries are in place or enemy aircraft can be vectored to the bombers position.

in such a scenario you need to get in quick with a couple of escorts & drop your 5000lb guided bombs on strategic targets & get out!

Schweinfurt–Regensburg mission is not such a great example back in the day radars were not as developed and SAM batteries didn't exist! so the enemy had to try and shoot you down with AA gun!

if you remember the operation desert storm in 1990....the F-15s & F-16s along with tomahawk crusie missiles were used for paving the way for A-10s....

this documentary might help.... F-16s were extensively used for bombings over iraq!

 

[sathruvinasakh]

@ thread starter:
Ans= NO
You can ask me why?
there are 1000`s of reasons and implications.

 

[batmannow]

@ thread starter:
Ans= NO
You can ask me why?
there are 1000`s of reasons and implications.

thanks for the reply, plz put just 10 of them.

 

[MZUBAIR]

I think, next coming era will demand only stealth bombers...........

 

[abbasniazi]

Sticking to the topic, i'd say,

Pakistan should have everything that has been invented so far in the history of military, but thats just a wish.

In my opinion its not about what pakistan should have, rather, its whats avaiable to us for sale and what we can afford.

Further more, pakistan doesn't have an enemy which is located far from our country, its at our doors, so we don't need Bombers for India when we have ballistic as well as cruise missiles.

the farther parts of india could be bombarded by our Submarine force.

 

[sathruvinasakh]

thanks for the reply, plz put just 10 of them.

1)Bombers themself are of diff league and are costly than regular fighters.
2)Need more maintainable and more logistics.
3)With the breadth of the whole Pak being around 400km the radars deployed near borders or the Airtraffic controlling radar in the border states of India can easily detect a bomber taking off to attack on India.
4)There will be no chance of a surprise attack given the no.of airbases they can hold these bombers.
5)Loosing a fighter while flying in the enemy airspace is much better than loosing a bomber.
6)Even PAF got hands on these so called bombers, it will be useless given the SAM coverage on Indian side.
7)There is no point of acquiring 3 or 4 bombers for conventional bombing.Hence PAF need have to acquire them in numbers.
8)Given the distances between India and Pak,A small missile can do the job much better than a bomber.
9)Sending a bomber for nuke attack is a suicidal mission.
10)PAF dont have airbases to take care of any medium sized bomber at the moment.
...................
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1001)PAK simply cant chew it.

 

[Wingman]

@ thread starter:
Ans= NO
You can ask me why?
there are 1000`s of reasons and implications.

I think I should agree with him..

 

[Wingman]

I think, next coming era will demand only stealth bombers...........

PAF started with Mushaks then Engine overhauling of F6s, Mirages, K8
Jf17 project, J10 and then....achieving Stealth technology...I agree

 

[deathfromabove]

Bombers are old school. They are only useful when you have complete air superiority.
Multi-role jets is the way of the future.