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Does India need Secularism?

You just like to talk big big things and most of it is nonsense. The reason why India chose to be secular is avoid needless underlying tensions. 150 million is the pop of britain- you want to alienate this group and expect to see great great things happen? Why? Becuase they don;t vote for a party that YOU think should rule? In a democracy people are supposed to vote for parties that represent THEIR interests. Not YOURS, and the muslims are wrong because they do not ignore the venom and attacks that the BJP leaders have historically spewed on them and vote for BJP? They vote congress because congress best represents their interests. And you are no one to counter-question their decision or change the constitution just becuase you'd like to see your guy win. PERIOD

Your Modi has not promised a single fundamental reform of the system. The biggest reform needed is to make CBI independent- is he gonna do that? Of course not! He is gonna harangue and harass people with that for his own gains the way the congress is doing now. Worse, he is not going to remove corruption either. In his own state he REFUSED to appoint a lokayukta for several years to hide any goings on, several of his cabinet ministers are corrupt and criminals. Your 'revolution' with hinduism is as degraded as the system it is supposed to replace. Worse still when their government is exposed to be corrupt BJP resorts to sentiment tones to hide it. That's when cow protection and ayodhya etc. become shriller- coz they want people to stop talking about the 10,000 crore scam in obalapuram mining company. One of Modi's ardent supporters and 'friends' happens to be Yeddy and Nitin Gdakari- both famous for their scams.

You're just pulling this stuff out of your @$$ aren't you?

Why are you getting personal...I never disrespect your opinion too...neither I would force you with any opinion about why Muslim vote for Congress...

Again i would like to say that I donot ever beleive that Modi in non corrupt...In a political spectrum of India when everything is relative....But I can definitely say that Modi is better than Congress party....For you corruption is not a issue because providing additional benefit to Muslim is a major issue at the cost of corruption and Similarly ..for me ...providing additional benefit to Muslim is not an issue rather development and progress is priority for me...

It is all about what does each group based on their interest. If you can not compromise your interest for the sake of our nation, then why would you expect that I would compromise my priority for your sake.....

Anyway, I do not want to a any leader that i would like to convey my opinion to others..I SHARE
 
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:sick: .......Why did Hitler attack Britain, France etc.....and Kill them and their women and Kids ? Where they not both Christian ?
That was Past.................In 1943-45.................They have realised their mistakes............
 
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Then how convenient they have Indian Christians to be their spokesperson.
Ya I am a Christian........and Indian..................Do you have any problem.............Addpil othunventta assanlathil otharatu..................
 
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Yes .......with Indian christians becoming spokesperson for European Nations.

I don't need your certificates to speak truth on this forum of in any part of India....................and Don't forget Shivasaniks kicked the *** of South Indians first and now Bhiaris & UP ...................This is a glimpse of the your dreamland HinduRashtra.............
 
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Are "150 million INDIAN muslims" some kind of commodity for you which you want to trade off with Pakistan. Let those INDIAN muslims decide what they want and I don't think it is any of your business to decide who stays where....
That decision should be given to Pakistan , not for me . Those were unable to feed 3 million afghan refugees , how do you think they can take people equal to their population . They just cant afford to that by just gaining kashmir .

You're neither a Hindu nor an Indian for making that comment!
Iam a Hindu and i stay in India .

Indian Kashmir is an inseperable part of our country. We don't want to convert India to Hindustan. What India is India is. Period.
Ps - Am a Hindu.
Thats our fate that we Hindus are adjusted , when muslims came we let them rule us and gave large chunks of land , when christians came again we lost , now we feel what we have is enough . I bet if we hadnt have vote bank politics we wouldnt have minded to give pakistan kashmir too and tawang to China .
 
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I don't need your certificates to speak truth on this forum of in any part of India....................and Don't forget Shivasaniks kicked the *** of South Indians first and now Bhiaris & UP ...................This is a glimpse of the your dreamland HinduRashtra.............

I am not in the business of issuing certificate. That is the job of the 'secular' Indians. :coffee:

But I do like to call a Spade a Spade.

As to shiv sanaiks kicking out South Indians .......that has more to do with linguistics politics than Hindu Politics. I am sure you know that .......but I guess you are the kind to 'stereotype' everyone as 'Hindus' .....or 'RSS' etc..
 
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I am surprised and amused at reading this. ....

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and very refreshing it is, too, i.

Joe Sahib,

Thank you for your "kind" words, honest words like

Surprised
Amused
Refreshing.

etc.

The reason is simple. I made a point to go visit places. Figure out exactly (believe me they often do) Sarkari school history, TV talks show history (if you can even call that history), and newspaper guys are right and where they are wrong.


I have spent countless hours asking simple yet pointed questions.

Who dunnit
What happened before that event
What was said
Any letters, or other correspondence
British India Office memos letters.


This is why you won't find me repeating the lies commonly known as sarkari history aka movie gandhi.,






.....There is sufficient evidence that the Muslim 'salariat' and not the rich landlords formed the backbone of the Muslim League. It is probably true that most rich landlords who were Muslim outside those of the Punjab supported the Muslim League. The argument pales when one considers the uniform opposition to the Muslim League until the eleventh hour from the Punjabi Muslim landlords.

But I forget.

There are certain intellectual functions which are not expected from the rabble of the Gangetic civilisation.

Apologies. I shall hold my tongue on this.

Joe sahib,

you wanted to poke holes but you could not.

The reason,

you haven't done your homework on this.

And like so many Indians you have accepted the generally propagated history. This is where you lost your way Sir.


Muslim League was founded by Nawabs.

Congress was founded by a British (slightly left of center guy) Mr. Hume.

ML got support from Sindh Landlords too, and so did Frontier's (now KPK).

Punjab is a bit perplexing. Isn't it?

For someone sitting in Bengal, Punjab is a distant place, and very distant culturally.

So if you don't understand it, well it is not your fault.


Punjab my dear was back then and it is now a place where family land is protected at every cost (true for other regions too).

So the families play tricks.

One brother in ML, and the other is a unionist, and a third is independent candidate.

Here is a quick example for you.


You know Liaqat Ali Khan.

You know he was a landlord. Right?

Do you know from where?

Do you know he had a brother?

Do you know his brother's name?

Do you know which party his brother belonged to?


Not putting you on the spot.

Just wanting to see if you could revise or update your earlier assertion that "The argument pales when one considers the uniform opposition to the Muslim League until the eleventh hour from the Punjabi Muslim landlords."


peace


p.s. No Indian poster has picked up my post #90 for response. I wonder why.
 
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I watched a video of kashmiri Pandit interviewed by Tahir Gora. It was a 4 part video. They were explaining how they were kicked out of Kashmir. It was really Horrible. They said that there was a continuous announcement for Kashmiri pandits to leave Kashmir or get convert or ready to die. They said we had asked our laddies to cut their throats in case Muslims attack them. They pushed the Pandits out & grabbed their properties.

What I want to say is that there is morally nothing is wrong in being secular but our secularism will lead us to a situation like Kashmir first & like Pakistan subsequently. First of all fundamental islam will distroy Hinduism, Subsequently other muslim faith like shias and Ahemadiya & than liberal of their own community and so on.
 
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I am not in the business of issuing certificate. That is the job of the 'secular' Indians. :coffee:

But I do like to call a Spade a Spade.

As to shiv sanaiks kicking out South Indians .......that has more to do with linguistics politics than Hindu Politics. I am sure you know that .......but I guess you are the kind to 'stereotype' everyone as 'Hindus' .....or 'RSS' etc..
No I am not.................But...May be for people like you................
 
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I watched a video of kashmiri Pandit interviewed by Tahir Gora. It was a 4 part video. They were explaining how they were kicked out of Kashmir. It was really Horrible. They said that there was a continuous announcement for Kashmiri pandits to leave Kashmir or get convert or ready to die. They said we had asked our laddies to cut their throats in case Muslims attack them. They pushed the Pandits out & grabbed their properties.

What I want to say is that there is morally nothing is wrong in being secular but our secularism will lead us to a situation like Kashmir first & like Pakistan subsequently. First of all fundamental islam will distroy Hinduism, Subsequently other muslim faith like shias and Ahemadiya & than liberal of their own community and so on.


What year and what region/city.


Thank you
 
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Obviously I was not trying to cover the whole history, I was just replying to Joe S's specific reference to Jinnah. That was obviously wrong.


So in order to complete the analysis (as per your suggestion) Here are some specific questions. Hope you know the answer already (and don't have to google and wiki :lol:)

1. Do you know who was running the "show" in Congress party before Gandhi?

2. Why was he 'kicked" out?

3. How was "kicked" out?

4. Why did he (the kicked out guy) sue (in court) the bigwigs of Congress party?

5. Who represented the kicked out guy in court? (Attorney's name).

6. Who invited Gandhi from S. Africa?

7. What was Gandhi famous for in S. Africa?
-- In other words why was Gandhi invited from S. Africa?

8. When did Gandhi arrive in S. Africa?

9. was there a time frame linked to Gandhi's coming, and Gandhi's predecessor's kicking out?


OK

on to mass movement that you talk about.


10. What were the main sources "approved" for buying cloth during his "charkha" movement?


Thank you.

I should know the answers to these I watched the movie Gandhi (1982) with Sir Ben Kingsley in it.
 
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Pl Google search Kashmir or kashmiri Pandit+ tahir Gora you will find It. it is on youtube. 1 Pakistani guy was also there among 4 kashmirias.
 
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