Do we really need democracy in Pakistan?

[Shot-Caller]

Do we need democracy?

In short, unless you have a better system of governance, which I'd wager you don't, then yes we do need democracy.

So are you satisfied with the current form of democracy in Pakistan?

 

[Jungibaaz]

So are you satisfied with the current form of democracy in Pakistan?

No. But it will improve over time, that I'm confident of.

Pakistan's democracy right now is highly imperfect and yields poor results. But then again, I can't name any democracy that didn't take decades or even centuries of imperfect rule to become slightly less imperfect rule and so on as time progresses.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and nor will Pakistan be.

 

[Shot-Caller]

Democracy is not salvation. It's just another form of governing a country, a Kingdom, a ruling elite, an elected elite, all can produce good rules for society, but they can just as easily make total crap rules for part of, or their whole, country.

The Saudi Kingdom is a valid way of ruling by popular support.. So is the government system of Japan, and for most European countries the 'ruling elite' vary.

So i've chosen (a number of years ago actually) to not look at rank or name of who says what, but to only listen what is said. On some topics, your local garbage cleanup service people will know more than a prime minister, the national chief of intelligence *and* your King / Queen combined.

Exactly. Does a majority justify and represent the mindset of the nation? Specially when majority of voters would not vote for ideology but for ethnicity, money and casts etc. Can a majority like this let a bunch of corrupt people rule the whole nation again and again in the name of democracy?

No. But it will improve over time, that I'm confident of.

Pakistan's democracy right now is highly imperfect and yields poor results. But then again, I can't name any democracy that didn't take decades or even centuries of imperfect rule to become slightly less imperfect rule and so on as time progresses.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and nor will Pakistan be.

Would you call India a perfect democracy?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Would you call India a perfect democracy?

No, theirs is quite poor too, but their democracy as a form of governance is more mature than ours, their democratic institutions are probably just as corrupt but stronger, and because of the political stability derived from that system... out of Pakistan and India... India is usually seen as the more responsible, reliable and accountable country, safer for investments too, simply because they persevered with democracy and haven't had any overthrows that cause instability

There's hardly a democracy out there that's perfect. British democracy for example, it is full of vulnerabilities to foul play, corruption isn't as much of an issue, only in Britain, corruption is partly legal, and the system can be rigged quite easily. But still British democracy is probably one of the best examples of governance anywhere in the world and one of the most tested.

 

[GreenFalcon]

Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman reported that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam said,

"Prophethood (meaning himself) will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain, then Allah will raise it up wherever he wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood remaining with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, He will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a reign of violently oppressive [The reign of Muslim kings who are partially unjust] rule and it will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, Allah will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Then, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood."
The new Caliphate hasn't started yet and Monarchies are pretty much finished so what happen to the "Tyrannical Rule" in the middle....unless its referring to this FAKE democracy....
@Indus Falcon @war&peace @Doordie

 

[Indus Falcon]

We do need Democracy in Pakistan. No two ways about it. Unfortunately what we have right now is DemoCrazy, with zero accountability.

Power corrupts, and Absolute power corrupts Absolutely. As long as Pakistanis ignore this critical point,nothing will change.

This is one reason, that the ordinary man on the street is more or less disillusioned by Democracy. I heard about a Gallup Poll conducted in Interior Sindh, where the majority of people , 70% ~75%, opposed them. How can I blame them, I fully understand their plight. Just as an example places like Thar haven't changed one bit since the drought.

 

[PeaceGen]

Pakistan is a country that has faced a lot of different problems like terrorism,corruption,military coups etc. Growing up I was lead to believe that the only way for Pakistan to survive is to have democracy. I am talking about the time when Musharraf was in power 05-06. Every time I heard big political leaders of that time they kept saying jamhooriyat(democracy) is our life line and aamirz(dictators) are taking the country to destruction.

well a dictator usually can only rule by dividing the vast majority of wealth and luxury goods in the country to a small set of military, police, secret police and intelligence people.

in a true democracy, it is possible to include members from the minority clans/tribes, but it's not entirely easy to do so either. first of all you need minority clan members to actually be loyal to the state as a whole, and therefore loyal to the decisions of the ruling clans/tribes.

Keeping the situation of that time in mind when there were suicide blasts every second day, prices were hiking up suddenly, power failures were so common it was frustrating, I thought may be these leaders are right. May be democracy is the only way. Now the elections of 2008 were emotionally charged after benazir's assassination. So the democracy was finally brought back. Now when I look at it 8 years later, I think to myself was it really democracy that we needed? We did need a change that's for sure but I don't know if it really was democracy.

dont think of it in terms of black and white (Kingdom or Democracy). even shades of grey dont give you an accurate picture to work with. you need all the colors of the rainbox, plus black and white, plus infrared... (intelligence service and secret police are the infrareds).
note that i'm not talking about skincolors of people here, i'm talking about colors like green, which is in political context a "support for muslims" color. And dark-blue is a "support for The West" in the political context, and "black pants with white shirt" identifies someone as a businessman.

If we listen to today's politicians they say democracy in this country is not strong enough. Give it time. I think it was them who did not let democracy get strengthened. Because if it does get strengthened, they won't be able to get away with all the corruption. I see Indians making fun of our system and taking pride in their democracy, But is our democracy really worth taking pride in?

I don't think democracy with currently available political options is our solution. Can we go for a better system which suits us?

Pakistan has a well run government, who'se only flaw if a flaw can be found at all, is supporting the Taliban on their country's soil. The Pakistani Taliban have declared the central Pakistani (moderate) government as something they want to take over. A large part of the unfortunate circumstances moderate Pakistanis have to endure, is due to an inability (and lack of will) to actually rule in the Pakistani-Taliban's homeground.

Exactly. Does a majority justify and represent the mindset of the nation? Specially when majority of voters would not vote for ideology but for ethnicity, money and casts etc. Can a majority like this let a bunch of corrupt people rule the whole nation again and again in the name of democracy?

a proverb over here, American in origin i think, goes :
the people shall receive the quality of government that they deserve.

unfortunately the writer of that proverb could not include how to ensure that a ruling elite not only governs a country, but sees to the needs of everyone in that country (and not just the ruling classes / elites)..

Would you call India a perfect democracy?[/QUOTE]

What Indians think and say about other countries, should be ignored. They haven't even made work of their anti-slavery laws nor the anti-rape laws they instituted to protect women..

 

[Indus Falcon]

Hudhaifah bin Al-Yaman reported that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam said,

"Prophethood (meaning himself) will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain, then Allah will raise it up wherever he wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood remaining with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, He will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a reign of violently oppressive [The reign of Muslim kings who are partially unjust] rule and it will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, Allah will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Then, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophethood."
The new Caliphate hasn't started yet and Monarchies are pretty much finished so what happen to the "Tyrannical Rule" in the middle....unless its referring to this FAKE democracy....
@Indus Falcon @war&peace @Doordie

I'm no scholar, may Allah forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems what we are going through is the "Tyrannical Rule."

People don't have access to basic necessitates, despite the funds and technology being there. Highways and exorbitantly priced infrastructure projects, with shady selection processes keep getting rolled out. Whereas critical sectors like Education, Health, Water and Electricity are ignored. If this isn't tyranny, then what is?

 

[tarrar]

There is no such thing as Democracy in Pakistan. All we are seeing is DEMOCRAZY run by uneducated & fake degree holders, who have held whole Pakistan hostage. Only incompetent, corrupt & treacherous bastards are running Pakistan & are pushing Pakistan towards ruins.

 

[Lavrentiy]

Education brings open-mindedness and freedom of thought; but not in Pakistan. The educated lot, especially the middle class, is the most hypocritical, hate mongering, egotistical and regressive bunch of people. They hate the poor and get jealous about the rich elite. They want personal freedom and desire DICTATORSHIP for the rest.

How detached they are from reality that all day long they make up fancy lists of super weapons for the military.

It is despicable to think that poor and uneducated people should have no right to vote. If you want DICTATORSHIP, go to another planet and enjoy totalitarianism. Democracy is here to stay and the hold of the military will eventually subside. Now get used to it.

They are "bloody civilians" themselves and yet they support the incompetent generals. They were even supporting SSG personnel beating up Motorway Police. Are you out of your minds ??? Is this what your educated mind comes up with?? Do you people ever contemplate that their salaries come from your taxes?? They are here to serve you, not rule over you.

Why don't you make your security guards your bosses and start obeying them??

Only a rubbish mindset can come up with the argument of selling votes for money. Walk in the shoes of a poor destitute person for a week and then tell me how it feels. Tell me how important a 5th generation fighter and an SSBN would be for you. Criticising poor for selling votes is shallow and unethical.

 

[Dawood Ibrahim]

I don't know myself was dictatorship better of Musharraf and Marhom Zia or the corruption of shaheed B B and NS better. Over own people are more loyal to them (politicians) than over own country and will die for them. And those who think General Zia was bad should please tell me was he corrupt or was he like these people the answer is he was loyal and not corrupt. And tomorrow im afraid they will change the name of Pakistan jus like shaheed B B Airport and more worst we might have PM who is not man or woman

@GreenFalcon

 

[kamrananvaar]

Pakistan needs a unique system to address its needs. A bit of everything.

no it does,nt , do not let people choose they are ........
we need authoritarian rule

 

[shhh]

Sir will you please elaborate what other systems you are pointing out here.
It's pretty obvious you are a supporter of dictatorship, but have a courage to say it straight away.
Can you please point out which country is having a dictatorship and is successful.

Dictatorship is not the only alternative.
China does not have a democracy.

 

[kamrananvaar]

Education brings open-mindedness and freedom of thought; but not in Pakistan. The educated lot, especially the middle class, is the most hypocritical, hate mongering, egotistical and regressive bunch of people. They hate the poor and get jealous about the rich elite. They want personal freedom and desire DICTATORSHIP for the rest.

How detached they are from reality that all day long they make up fancy lists of super weapons for the military.

It is despicable to think that poor and uneducated people should have no right to vote. If you want DICTATORSHIP, go to another planet and enjoy totalitarianism. Democracy is here to stay and the hold of the military will eventually subside. Now get used to it.

They are "bloody civilians" themselves and yet they support the incompetent generals. They were even supporting SSG personnel beating up Motorway Police. Are you out of your minds ??? Is this what your educated mind comes up with?? Do you people ever contemplate that their salaries come from your taxes?? They are here to serve you, not rule over you.

Why don't you make your security guards your bosses and start obeying them??

Only a rubbish mindset can come up with the argument of selling votes for money. Walk in the shoes of a poor destitute person for a week and then tell me how it feels. Tell me how important a 5th generation fighter and an SSBN would be for you. Criticising poor for selling votes is shallow and unethical.

really !!!! wake up man , earth to mars !
to call a spade a spade is not shallow its is the TRUTH and do you ever contemplate that the whole elite so called elected members are embezzling your money, come to ask every five years for your vote and dont give a rats *** about you , and plz do tell how many of these elected officials are EDUCATED

Dictatorship is not the only alternative.
China does not have a democracy.

china has a dictatorship -- a kind of
like pakistan has democracy , kind of

 

[Shadowknife]

no it does,nt , do not let people choose they are ........
we need authoritarian rule

Sincerity is what we need. Without, it's all just Rock Paper Scissors.