Do Pakistanis have romantic (unreal) view of Saudi Arabia?

[FaujHistorian]

Do Pakistanis have romantic (unreal) view of Saudi Arabia?

Please no trolling.

Just support or oppose the subject line. Thank you

Pakistanis comment on KSA based on very limited set of observations that deal primarily with prayer, mosque, shop, and street.

Why?

--- Most of the Pakistanis commenting on KSA may have lived there for 20 years, but in this time they had ZERO contact with local Saudi families in social settings. That means visiting each others' homes on regular basis, letting each others' kids play with each other, go to the same school, attending each other's weddings and birthdays.

--- Pakistani kids mostly go to international schools and thus have very little interaction with local Saudi kids, and their mum-dads


--- Even though many here claim to have lived in KSA, but they don’t know even the basic facts (see below)


And thus our views of KSA are very twisted, very romantic, and thus utterly wrong!
In majority of the cases off course.

So here are some basic basic facts


--- Saudi Arabian population will fit into just 2 Pakistani cities. That is just TWO large cities of Pakistan. That's all.

--- on the population of about 30 million, KSA budget allocation is about $250 billions a year
---------- compared to Pakistani spending of $40 billion on population of 200 million (1/6 the budget on 6 times the population)
---------- This is like my city Karachi spending $200 billion on just one city.

--- This tiny tiny population is spread in an area 2 million sq KM
--------- compared to Pakistan's 800,000 sq KM (We have 6 times the population in 1/3 area)

--- Compared to USA
--- --- KSA has 1/10 the population
------ KSA has 1/14 the budget
--- --- KSA has 1/5 the area



Misconceptions:


--- KSA is not a Monarchy modeled after systems that existed 100s of years ago
--- KSA system can be implemented in Pakistan with no issues
--- KSA can provide economic/social justice to its citizens that do not belong to majority faith / culture
--- KSA justice system does not discriminate on the basis of race, gender, ethnicity, and sexual orientation.
--- KSA is a super power that Pakistan can rely on to counter another super power aka USA
--- KSA economic system is model for Pakistan
-------- Pakistanis do not know that KSA economic system is utterly dependent on stuff coming out of ground and NOT human development. KSA has at least 50-100 years to go before its earning from human capital become the dominant basis of its economy



So what are your views. Romantic? Or Realistic?

Peace



p.s. Saudi Islamism and Fiqh is moribund philosophy that is totally NOT applicable to a multi-ethnic multi-religious society.

Sorry to say.

I have seen with my own eyes, Shia mosques forcibly shuttered during Friday prayers (in Sunni majority areas).

They have zero citizens (for all practical purposes) who follow religion other than majority Wahahbi and minority Shia. No Chrisitan citizens to speak of, no Hindu citizens, no Jewish citizens of any number large enough to be counted in Saudi Islamism.

 

[Counter-Errorist]

We may have become acclimatized to the current state of affairs, but deep down we're in a very desperate situation. We're a desperate people willing to hold any hand being offered to us. If we had a strong economy and a stable government, we'd see ourselves instead of them as a model state. So any state that offers us sincere assistance, we romantisize over - KSA, China, Turkey, etc.

 

[VCheng]

Do Pakistanis have romantic (unreal) view of Saudi Arabia?

Please no trolling.

Just support or oppose the subject line. Thank you

........................................

So what are your views. Romantic? Or Realistic?

Peace

Well, such a romantic view is possible only when Pakistan has such an idealized view of itself to begin with!

Oh wait .........

 

[Contrarian]

We may have become acclimatized to the current state of affairs, but deep down we're in a very desperate situation. We're a desperate people willing to hold any hand being offered to us. If we had a strong economy and a stable government, we'd see ourselves as a model state. So any state that offers us sincere assistance, we romantisize over - KSA, China, Turkey, etc.

I dont think you are right. That is not the reason.
India is what Pakistani's call their 'humsaya'. Despite the talk of Indians on PDF, India is in as desperate a situation Pakistan is wrt economics and governance, we are as poor as Pakistan, almost as illiterate. Infact we have higher poverty and hunger than Pakistan and by quite a margin.

Why then is there such a contrast - India and Indians dont romanticize about any country - US or Russia or x/y/z. We never hop and fawn over any country in the world like Pakistani's do over KSA and Turkey.

It sure is not just economics and governance that you are limiting it to. It has other factors that are majorly responsible.

 

[Counter-Errorist]

I dont think you are right. That is not the reason.
India is what Pakistani's call their 'humsaya'. Despite the talk of Indians on PDF, India is in as desperate a situation Pakistan is wrt economics and governance, we are as poor as Pakistan, almost as illiterate. Infact we have higher poverty and hunger than Pakistan and by quite a margin.

Why then is there such a contrast - India and Indians dont romanticize about any country - US or Russia or x/y/z. We never hop and fawn over any country in the world like Pakistani's do over KSA and Turkey.

It sure is not just economics and governance that you are limiting it to. It has other factors that are majorly responsible.

I disagree. India is clearly a huge economic powerhouse. You're in the process of developing modern infrastructural facilities - roads, trains, metros, airports, etc. We have to take out loans to meet even our basic critical needs of water and energy.

Besides, culturally speaking, India is very unique - there's no other Hindu state and there's no other country with the kind of mix of ethnicities India encompasses.

We can associate ourselves easily with Arabs and Muslim states across the globe.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I dont think you are right. That is not the reason.
India is what Pakistani's call their 'humsaya'. Despite the talk of Indians on PDF, India is in as desperate a situation Pakistan is wrt economics and governance, we are as poor as Pakistan, almost as illiterate. Infact we have higher poverty and hunger than Pakistan and by quite a margin.

Why then is there such a contrast - India and Indians dont romanticize about any country - US or Russia or x/y/z. We never hop and fawn over any country in the world like Pakistani's do over KSA and Turkey.

It sure is not just economics and governance that you are limiting it to. It has other factors that are majorly responsible.

Please let's not make this India Pak thread. We already have many many many many many ongoing threads fore that.


p.s. In a country's thinking, size does matter

I disagree. India is clearly a huge economic powerhouse. You're in the process of developing modern infrastructural facilities - roads, trains, metros, airports, etc. We have to take out loans to meet even our basic critical needs of water and energy.

Besides, culturally speaking, India is very unique - there's no other Hindu state and there's no other country with the kind of mix of ethnicities India encompasses.

We can associate ourselves easily with Arabs and Muslim states across the globe.

Please let's not make this India-Pak thread.


Thank you

p.s. What India is doing now, is what Pakistan was doing in 50s
p.p.s. What Pakistan was doing in 50s is what S.Korea has been doing all along
p.p.p.s. What Pakistan is doing now, is what North Korea is doing all along

 

[airmarshal]

I have utmost respect for Saudi Arabia as its a historic land with holiest of places for the Muslim world.

But you can always argue if you like the way Saudis are. Good or bad. And thats a personal preference how you see people of that country. But I must say, Saudi laws for foreigners are extremely discriminatory.

 

[Contrarian]

I disagree. India is clearly a huge economic powerhouse. You're in the process of developing modern infrastructural facilities - roads, trains, metros, airports, etc. We have to take out loans to meet even our basic critical needs of water and energy.

When we talk of terms like 'powerhouses', you should always remember that there are over 1.2 billion people to clothe and feed.
So any comparison is and should always be limited to 'per capita'.

But if you want me to give an example - Back in 1991, we had 2 weeks worth of money left to import essentials, had major insurgencies in more than 3 major states of India for over a decade, no major private sector to speak of among other things.
Even then, Indians never glorify and fawn over other nations. Even then we never blindly jumped with USSR which provided us succor.

Then you can take the example of Bangladesh. They are far poorer than Pakistan, massively overpopulated, major governance deficit, yet you will not see the kind of fawning over KSA/Turkey/etc that Pakistani's do.

So its definitely not economics and governance alone. It would be a minor part.

Besides, culturally speaking, India is very unique - there's no other Hindu state and there's no other country with the kind of mix of ethnicities India encompasses.

Yes. But the point stands. Its not governance and economics why Pakistani's at every level tend to fawn over countries like KSA and Turkey idealizing them.

We can associate ourselves easily with Arabs and Muslim states across the globe.

Thats exactly the point.
While Pakistan's are the only ones who can point out why this cultural phenomenon in Pakistan of lionizing everything that KSA or Turkey does, particularly KSA, I can point out which hypothesis does not hold much water.

Why Pakistani's keep and feel that KSA is above them as a people.

P.S: As @FaujHistorian pointed out. My posts would probably shift the discussion. This is my last post on the topic. You have the last word..
Regards

 

[FaujHistorian]

...
P.S: As @FaujHistorian pointed out. My posts would probably shift the discussion. This is my last post on the topic. You have the last word..
Regards

Thank you,.

Yes what you say is important but it will totally derail this thread.

I hope others too, avoid the temptation of bringing India into this discussion.

 

[T-123456]

The thread is about KSA,not about my country Turkiye.
Dont drag my country into this romance,ty.

 

[Cheetah786]

Subliminal Messages from FaujiHistorian

Thank you

p.s. What India is doing now, is what Pakistan was doing in 50s
p.p.s. What Pakistan was doing in 50s is what S.Korea has been doing all along
p.p.p.s. What Pakistan is doing now, is what North Korea is doing all along

Why all of sudden i feel like voting for PPP Any how my thoughts on this subject arent that big of a secret.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I have utmost respect for Saudi Arabia as its a historic land with holiest of places for the Muslim world.

But you can always argue if you like the way Saudis are. Good or bad. And thats a personal preference how you see people of that country. But I must say, Saudi laws for foreigners are extremely discriminatory.

We are not talking about individual Saudis. They are good and bad and mostly good.

The issue here is how Pakistanis view it.

And you have used their religious place. And that's fine.

Thank you

 

[Infoman]

The thread is about KSA,not about my country Turkiye.
Dont drag my country into this romance,ty.

If turkey is your country then why do you live in the Netherlands?

 

[VCheng]

We are not talking about individual Saudis. They are good and bad and mostly good.

The issue here is how Pakistanis view it.

And you have used their religious place. And that's fine.

Thank you

Let's step back and wonder if how Pakistani view things is even all that relevant any more?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Let's step back and wonder if how Pakistani view things is even all that relevant any more?

Good point.

Just remember Pakistani views feed Pakistani belief system, and thus it is relevant for PAKISTAN all the time.

as this belief system results in what Pakistan is today. and will be tomorrow.