Do Pakistanis feel schadenfreude towards India's Minorities?

[kṣamā]

Just give another read to the argument made by KRAIT. Its not me who brought secularism in, I would love to remain mum on so-called secularism in India, don't want to derail the thread.

Then pls follow just wat u wrote.

 

[Emmie]

Then pls follow just wat u wrote.

Hypermetropic? Read my first post on the thread.

 

[KRAIT]

You are violating your own statement you made in post number 2.. Secularism is actually misunderstood on your side of the boarder and yes Pakistan is not a secular state and we don't claim it.. And FYI Islam gives full rights to minorities, so please be heard.



I am just stating other side of coin. don't take that earnestly.... Its a human nature after-all, right?

Are you trying to say a state based on religion oppresses minorities?

Did you even read the article or just jumped to bash India.

Where did I say state based on religion oppress minorities? We are talking about

Topic of thread is:
Do Pakistan's citizen gets some sort of pleasure on seeing oppression of minorities in India like Gujrat riots etc. coz these Muslims deserve so coz they didn't come to Pakistan?

Do you think, being completely honest, the same way.....Answer on this, not questioning India's distorted definition of secularism (which you call).

Don't post off topic. Its one of the rare thread which may result in good discussion.

 

[Icewolf]

India is based on secularism (which you don't agree with) but Pakistan was formed on basis of religion, Islam. So the situation and opinion will be different.

Already said, don't derail the topic by bringing India into. OP has posted a good thread. Questioning the psyche of Pakistani people about Indian minorities especially Muslims.

If you have doubt, see Mushraffs answer on Indian Muslims question when he visited India as president and interacted in India Today Conclave.

Don't post before you have solid thought or reason.

No one liners.

It's the same thing in India, when you talk about our Hindu minorities

 

[Armstrong]

'Schadenfreude' - Someones been watching 'Boston Legal' !

But you've got to admit that Sherlly was truly 'sublime' in old age and Danny was a joy to watch.

P.S On the topic : Nope...we don't ! By and large...we don't really care that much about these things - We've moved on. None of the conversations I've been involved in for the past few years did ever Indian Muslims (or others) pop up and no there isn't any domestic consumption for it either hence why you don't hear Politicians talking about it. Whereas 'validation' is another thing - Whenever something like that happens we do go 'thank God we weren't there' but no..not an ounce of 'glee' or anything like it; I remember Gujrat brought a lot of conversations about Pakistan, our origins and '47 all into many a conversations but I can't recall a single one where either of us weren't sad for the victims...so No..no schadenfreude !

 

[livingdead]

Imam bukhari, did you write the post yourself? If yes, then I am your fan.

 

[kṣamā]

Hypermetropic? Read my first post on the thread.

Did I write something wrong asking a senior member to stop going off-topic mudslinging and post some good contributing post to the thread ?? I want ppl around here to answer the main post. Wat I was pointing was to the last part of ur last sentence. Which clearly is not being done here, both by me and you. Pls donot quote me and answer my post rather invest the same energy in posting something knowledgeable and constructive.

Thanks in advance for ur future posts.

 

[Emmie]

Did you even read the article or just jumped to bash India.

Where did I say state based on religion oppress minorities? We are talking about

Topic of thread is:
Do Pakistan's citizen gets some sort of pleasure on seeing oppression of minorities in India like Gujrat riots etc. coz these Muslims deserve so coz they didn't come to India.?

Do you think, being completely honest, the same way.....Answer on this, not questioning India's distorted definition of secularism (which you call).

Don't post off topic. Its one of the rare thread which may result in good discussion.

Yup, I read the OP in its entirety and in case if you have missed my reply to the OP please give it a read on page number 1, you'll get my intentions on this thread right..

Absolutely not IMO, its human who suffer not merely so-called minorities..

 

[Armstrong]

I already said about not bringing India into this and India wasn't formed at the first place and it isn't based on religion unlike Pakistan.

Two-nation theory wasn't coined by leaders of India.

Tell that to 'Tendulkar' ! If Cricket isn't India's official Religion then I'm the owner of the Playboy Mansion !

 

[KRAIT]

'Schadenfreude' - Someones been watching 'Boston Legal' !

But you've got to admit that Sherlly was truly 'sublime' in old age and Danny was a joy to watch.

P.S On the topic : Nope...we don't ! By and large...we don't really care that much about these things - We've moved on. None of the conversations I've been involved in for the past few years did ever Indian Muslims (or others) pop up and no there isn't any domestic consumption for it either hence why you don't hear Politicians talking about it. Whereas 'validation' is another thing - Whenever something like that happens we do go 'thank God we weren't there' but no..not an ounce of 'glee' or anything like it; I remember Gujrat brought a lot of conversations about Pakistan, our origins and '47 all into many a conversations but I can't recall a single one where either of us weren't sad for the victims...so No..no schadenfreude !

Ye ye tune bhi wahin se seekha ye word. Kaafi acha use kiya tha yaar usne......Woh episode sahi tha....if i am not wrong its a german word?

Back to topic.

Imam bukhari, did you write the post yourself? If yes, then I am your fan.

Seriously mate I have seen few of his posts today, and I personally think he should post more. Even if he hasn't written it, it clearly shows his intellectual level.

Tell that to 'Tendulkar' ! If Cricket isn't India's official Religion then I'm the owner of the Playboy Mansion !

Now you...don't troll

 

[MilSpec]

The Indian Nation after independence inherited the largest uneducated population, a system of social injustice and medieval caste system. Today's generation hears about incredible India, and huge cosmopolitan Cities but we should not forget that within 5 years of Independence India was predicted to disintegrate i pieces, undergo civil war etc.

Although the nation state of India/Bharat in this forum is believed to have come into existence in 47, culturally we have existed for centuries, and for centuries we have carried some flaws through those generations.

Historically speaking, Today minorities are being treated the best they have been in last 3000 years of our history. Today all minorities have reservations & their own political representation. This could not have been even imagined a 100 years ago. This doesn't mean minorities are not discriminated, there still exists a very large social discrimination against minorities of India. But in this age, we are a young nation and nation building takes times, Afro-americans were given their rights in US after a very long time of the existence of their nation state.

The three major downfalls of the Indian state is education, social justice and Corruptions. All three go hand in hand in most of the regions. But this nation was built on the shoulders of legendary leaders and thinkers. When such leaders come into power they create change, they create hope, when there is education, dalit children become doctors and bankers, when there is social justice, the entire village comes together to bring justice to a widow.

I grew up in a peaceful sleepy moderate city in maharashtra, growing up I had Muslim friends who grew up in multi ethinic diverse culture. I did not see any difference between them or other friends I had. My best friend in college belonged to backward class, the only complain I had with him was that he got computer engg with lesser marks due to reservations apart from that his caste did not matter to me. But then you read the news papers and you read about riots, and then we witness gangs and groups belonging to political parties and particular caste or religion and you are reminded of the social realities outside the school and college.
I am pretty sure such social anomalous do exist in pakistan, as I have seen them in India, Mexico and USA alike.

The treatment of Muslims or dalits does not consolidate the two nation theory or otherwise . The truth remains that the political destiny of Pakistan is decided by muslims, that is not the case in India and will never be unless muslim populations is large enough to get significant leaders into parliament.

Jinnahs main contentions which was opposed " In the Central Legislature, Muslim representation shall not be less than one third" will not be there in India, hence two nation theory will work and creation of pakistan was a success.....

To the Op my main question was pakistan's formation and jinnah's contention only limited to social treatment of muslims or did they include other topics on foreign relations, relations with India, secularism, separation of religion and state, Freedom of religion, Central regulation admin with a union of federations holding most of the power.

How is it that, jinnahs two nation theory is relegated to just to political rights to muslims of the nations and has overlooked most of his visions for the country. If two nation theory is taken so seriously by pakistanis, what about jinnah's other visions, why were they discarded casually on his demise.

 

[Imam Bukhari]

Same as how Indians feel of our minorities, and issues.

Icewolf Bhai,

I agree with you 100%. I forgot to add this point as a post-script to my original post, so I will add it here:

PS Note:

Obviously, human nature being the same everywhere, we can presume that what is true of some Pakistanis will be true of some Indians as well.

The Indian schadenfreude would be the mirror image of the one posted in the article above. For instance, you can be sure that there are some Indians who will want to see India's minorities do better than the average Pakistani. Or in other words, they would want to see Pakistanis doing worse than Indian minorities (with emphasis on Indian Muslims).

Why? Because they do not accept the two-nation theory. Therefore, anything than invalidates that theory would give them relative validation of their collective identity. Therefore, they would always want to compare India's Muslims (and other minorities) to the average Pakistani and try to show that their minorities are better off in India.

Sorry I forgot to add this post-script to the original post. It just slipped my mid. Meherbani to Icewolf Bhai for pointing this out.

 

[zip]

Bangladesh has created its own identity away from both india and pakistan but pakistans identity lingers around india ..the hatred ,the effort to distance, itself gives away its identity .. Anything happens in india becomes major topic in pakistan ..people forgot why their country formed but they discuss how it was formed .. Two nation theory fails when the aim 'well being of a particular section of society ' itself is lost ...

 

[Emmie]

Icewolf Bhai,

I agree with you 100%. I forgot to add this point as a post-script to my original post, so I will add it here:

PS Note:

Obviously, human nature being the same everywhere, we can presume that what is true of some Pakistanis will be true of some Indians as well.

The Indian schadenfreude would be the mirror image of the one posted in the article above. For instance, you can be sure that there are some Indians who will want to see India's minorities do better than the average Pakistani. Or in other words, they would want to see Pakistanis doing worse than Indian minorities (with emphasis on Indian Muslims).

Why? Because they do not accept the two-nation theory. Therefore, anything than invalidates that theory would give them relative validation of their collective identity. Therefore, they would always want to compare India's Muslims (and other minorities) to the average Pakistani and try to show that their minorities are better off in India.

Sorry I forgot to add this post-script to the original post. It just slipped my mid. Meherbani to Icewolf Bhai for pointing this out.

I am sure after reading this part of your post many will withdraw their thanks they gave to your first post.. Anyways, schadenfreude, if it exists, is lamentable at first place..

 

[Imam Bukhari]

Topic of thread is:
Do Pakistan's citizen gets some sort of pleasure on seeing oppression of minorities in India like Gujrat riots etc. coz these Muslims deserve so coz they didn't come to Pakistan?
.

Krait Bhai,

I think you have missed my point slightly.

You say "Topic of thread is: Do Pakistan's citizen gets some sort of pleasure on seeing oppression of minorities in Indi.........coz these Muslims deserve so coz they didn't come to Pakistan?"

This is not what I said at all in the original point. I cannot imagine anyone in Pakistan feeling "these Muslims deserve it because they did not come to Pakistan". This is not the point. This has nothing to do with anyone coming or going to Pakistan. This has nothing to do with any feeling of anybody "deserving" any bad thing.

The point is more subtle and the emotions are more mixed. And that is precisely why the word schadenfreude was imported into the English language in the first place, as the word describes these subtle, conflicting feeling very aptly and accurately. Still further, that is why I used the word in the original post and also in the title.

Please look up the word "schadenfreude" and you may get a better understanding of how subtle the matter is.