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DNA exclusive: Nothing new about Pak’s latest missile, scientists tell PM

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DNA exclusive: Nothing new about Pak’s latest missile, scientists tell PM - India - DNA

Scientists of the Bangalore-based National Institute of Advanced Studies (NIAS), closely monitoring the development of nuclear weapons and missiles in India’s immediate neighbourhood, have concluded that the Hatf IV Shaheen 1A missile recently test-fired by the Pakistan establishment had almost the same capabilities of the earlier Shaheen 1 and was hardly an improvement of the previous weapons system.

Contesting the claim made by Islamabad that it was an “upgraded” and “improved” version of its existing intermediate range ballistic missile, the scientists have forwarded a note to the Prime Minister’s Office saying that they did not notice much improvement in its capabilities. Pakistan had gone ahead with the test soon after India launched its long range Agni-V missile which can reach targets at a distance of 5,000 km.

Significantly enough, the report hints at the possibility that the Hatf-IV Shaheen-1A missile might have been tested only as a response to India testing the long range Agni V. The scientists could not trace any major technological development in the missile which would have necessitated this experiment. The suggestion is that the April 25 launch carried out by Pakistan was virtually needless and was prompted by the need to make a statement of belligerence.

These scientists carried out their research under the International Strategic and Security Studies Programme (ISSSP) of the NIAS and made their inferences after having tracked precisely 40 ballistic missile tests carried out by Pakistan since 1998. They have been monitoring the various launches of Ghauri, Shaheen 1/1A, Ghaznavi, Abdali and Shaheen 2 missiles which Islamabad has been touting with much fanfare.

In the note, the NIAS says: “Information on the launch including an image of the missile was put out by the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) of Pakistan. The news release claimed that the Hatf-IV Shaheen-1A Weapon System as an improved version of Shaheen-1 with improvements in range and technical parameters.”

Using the image of the missile put out by Pakistan, the ISSSP carried out an evaluation of Pakistan’s capability and analysed whether any new developments could be inferred from this launch to substantiate the claim of range improvement. The scientists concluded,“A comparison of the April 25th image with earlier images...shows no significant change in the length of the missile (11.5 m to 11.6 m) or any change in the re-entry part of the missile.”

In fact, the scientists have relied on various Shaheen 1 images of October 2002, March 2004 and November 2006 to compare the existing data with those of the latest launch on April 25. The study shows that the “operational flight length” of all these missiles is almost the same varying between 11.43 m to 11.62 m. The report says, “There are no changes evident in the stage configuration and the main aerodynamic fins at the end of the missile and the exhaust look similar. The overall warhead length is comparable with the other images...”

The only minor changes, which the report finds are that the forward part of the re-entry vehicle is shorter (the length in the April 2012 launch is 1.6 m compared to 2.3 m in the earlier launches) and the re-entry vehicle in the recent launch has no stabilising fins (the earlier flown configurations were equipped with a set of four fins).

According to the report, the changes seen are minor and are not inconsistent with some improvements in the re-entry vehicles including its control and avionics systems. There may be some reduction in the weight of the re-entry vehicle. “However, they do not appear to be greatly significant... and do not have much impact on the missile range.”

The report further states:“Our assessment of the range of Shaheen 1 was 673 km for a launch from Islamabad in a south eastern (Azimuth 135 degrees) direction with a 1,000 kg re-entry vehicle . We do not find any evidence from the image put out by Pakistan to change this assessment. Longer range is however possible if Pakistan has reduced the missile throw-mass to below 1,000 kg.”

This particular study suggests that the latest Pakistani missile test does not cause too much worry to the Indian establishment. There was an anticipation of such a tit-for-tat launch. Now that the data suggests that it was basically old wine in new bottle with minor tinkering, the Bangalore-based monitoring agency appears to be satisfied.
 
The report further states:“Our assessment of the range of Shaheen 1 was 673 km for a launch from Islamabad in a south eastern (Azimuth 135 degrees) direction with a 1,000 kg re-entry vehicle .

what is the real range of Shaheen 1
 
So in other words..
Indian scientists would also conclude that there is no visible change between the F-16 block-30 to the F-16 Block-50.
After all.. they both look the exact same in images.
Brilliant research methods I must say.
 
So in other words..
Indian scientists would also conclude that there is no visible change between the F-16 block-30 to the F-16 Block-50.
After all.. they both look the exact same in images.
Brilliant research methods I must say.
The article is jingoism filled, we cannot deny anything based on a piece of article.. Maybe Indian scientists have some other information but do you think they will reveal it, I dont think so..
 
The article is jingoism filled, we cannot deny anything based on a piece of article.. Maybe Indian scientists have some other information but do you think they will reveal it, I dont think so..

Image intel is useful, but very misleading..
for eg.. during the 80's when both the Mig-29 and Su-27 were being tested at the Ramenskoye flight test centre in Russia ..US sat pictures of them had many analysts confused in thinking they were one and the same aircraft..

When the Russians took out a new missile...
The Americans did three things..
first was to move a sat overheard,
the second was to position a RC-135S "cobra ball" aircraft as close as they could get to the borders of the Soviet union.
and the third was a Cobra judy ship which in conjunction with Cobra ball monitored the missile's flight path.

Using a combination of these three things, they could then judge the changes in the missile..even though they may look outwardly similar.

What India should have(probably did do..or not) was use the image..and position its Green Pine radar towards Pakistan to gather as much data as it could have on the Missile. Only then could it have enough data to come up with such a "fatwa"..

Conclusions like these ..are similar to those that stated the JF-17 as an improved Mig-21.
 
Image intel is useful, but very misleading..
for eg.. during the 80's when both the Mig-29 and Su-27 were being tested at the Ramenskoye flight test centre in Russia ..US sat pictures of them had many analysts confused in thinking they were one and the same aircraft..

When the Russians took out a new missile...
The Americans did three things..
first was to move a sat overheard,
the second was to position a RC-135S "cobra ball" aircraft as close as they could get to the borders of the Soviet union.
and the third was a Cobra judy ship which in conjunction with Cobra ball monitored the missile's flight path.

Using a combination of these three things, they could then judge the changes in the missile..even though they may look outwardly similar.

What India should have(probably did do..or not) was use the image..and position its Green Pine radar towards Pakistan to gather as much data as it could have on the Missile. Only then could it have enough data to come up with such a "fatwa"..

Conclusions like these ..are similar to those that stated the JF-17 as an improved Mig-21.
You are right but what Indians did or did not do would not be made public, so all this speculation over something where so many things are variable is clearly not correct.
 
Image intel is useful, but very misleading..
for eg.. during the 80's when both the Mig-29 and Su-27 were being tested at the Ramenskoye flight test centre in Russia ..US sat pictures of them had many analysts confused in thinking they were one and the same aircraft..

When the Russians took out a new missile...
The Americans did three things..
first was to move a sat overheard,
the second was to position a RC-135S "cobra ball" aircraft as close as they could get to the borders of the Soviet union.
and the third was a Cobra judy ship which in conjunction with Cobra ball monitored the missile's flight path.

Using a combination of these three things, they could then judge the changes in the missile..even though they may look outwardly similar.

What India should have(probably did do..or not) was use the image..and position its Green Pine radar towards Pakistan to gather as much data as it could have on the Missile. Only then could it have enough data to come up with such a "fatwa"..

Conclusions like these ..are similar to those that stated the JF-17 as an improved Mig-21.

Visually there was not a single difference between the missile and came just after Agni-5 test. So it indicate one thing, Pakistan had to reply with something. Also it will be surprising if India did not positioned LRTR towards Pakistan. Its normal to do so. Already IN has long range radars mounted on the ships which tracked missiles like Agni-5 through out its flight envelope.
 
Visually there was not a single difference between the missile and came just after Agni-5 test. So it indicate one thing, Pakistan had to reply with something. Also it will be surprising if India did not positioned LRTR towards Pakistan. Its normal to do so. Already IN has long range radars mounted on the ships which tracked missiles like Agni-5 through out its flight envelope.

Read the Indian article, it also states noting of slight change in the forward area.

This is the second missile, where difference in the nose cone area has been identified.

Read the below thread and see the pictures of the first Shaheen -1 missile in white and compare it with the current tested one.

Post # 168


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...tan-tests-upgraded-shaheen-1a-missile-12.html
Nose come difference and the fins in the rearward section where engine exhaust is.
 
Read the Indian article, it also states noting of slight change in the forward area.

This is the second missile, where difference in the nose cone area has been identified.

Read the below thread and see the pictures of the first Shaheen -1 missile in white and compare it with the current tested one.

Post # 168


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...tan-tests-upgraded-shaheen-1a-missile-12.html
Nose come difference and the fins in the rearward section where engine exhaust is.

Yes the nosecone looks like slightly thinner. But what is the differences in engine exhaust?

http://www.japanfocus.org/data/Shaheen_missile.jpg

They could have removed the fins and add composite motor casing, flexible exhausts with no fins etc would have made some radical changes. I think the improvements done inside the missile. But not a new missile to be called Shaheen 1A. Such improvements were done in our existing Agni-1 and Agni-2 for years.
 
DNA exclusive: Nothing new about Pak’s latest missile, scientists tell PM - India - DNA

Scientists of the Bangalore-based National Institute of Advanced Studies (NIAS), closely monitoring the development of nuclear weapons and missiles in India’s immediate neighbourhood, have concluded that the Hatf IV Shaheen 1A missile recently test-fired by the Pakistan establishment had almost the same capabilities of the earlier Shaheen 1 and was hardly an improvement of the previous weapons system.

Contesting the claim made by Islamabad that it was an “upgraded” and “improved” version of its existing intermediate range ballistic missile, the scientists have forwarded a note to the Prime Minister’s Office saying that they did not notice much improvement in its capabilities. Pakistan had gone ahead with the test soon after India launched its long range Agni-V missile which can reach targets at a distance of 5,000 km.

Significantly enough, the report hints at the possibility that the Hatf-IV Shaheen-1A missile might have been tested only as a response to India testing the long range Agni V. The scientists could not trace any major technological development in the missile which would have necessitated this experiment. The suggestion is that the April 25 launch carried out by Pakistan was virtually needless and was prompted by the need to make a statement of belligerence.

These scientists carried out their research under the International Strategic and Security Studies Programme (ISSSP) of the NIAS and made their inferences after having tracked precisely 40 ballistic missile tests carried out by Pakistan since 1998. They have been monitoring the various launches of Ghauri, Shaheen 1/1A, Ghaznavi, Abdali and Shaheen 2 missiles which Islamabad has been touting with much fanfare.

In the note, the NIAS says: “Information on the launch including an image of the missile was put out by the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) of Pakistan. The news release claimed that the Hatf-IV Shaheen-1A Weapon System as an improved version of Shaheen-1 with improvements in range and technical parameters.”

Using the image of the missile put out by Pakistan, the ISSSP carried out an evaluation of Pakistan’s capability and analysed whether any new developments could be inferred from this launch to substantiate the claim of range improvement. The scientists concluded,“A comparison of the April 25th image with earlier images...shows no significant change in the length of the missile (11.5 m to 11.6 m) or any change in the re-entry part of the missile.”

In fact, the scientists have relied on various Shaheen 1 images of October 2002, March 2004 and November 2006 to compare the existing data with those of the latest launch on April 25. The study shows that the “operational flight length” of all these missiles is almost the same varying between 11.43 m to 11.62 m. The report says, “There are no changes evident in the stage configuration and the main aerodynamic fins at the end of the missile and the exhaust look similar. The overall warhead length is comparable with the other images...”

The only minor changes, which the report finds are that the forward part of the re-entry vehicle is shorter (the length in the April 2012 launch is 1.6 m compared to 2.3 m in the earlier launches) and the re-entry vehicle in the recent launch has no stabilising fins (the earlier flown configurations were equipped with a set of four fins).

According to the report, the changes seen are minor and are not inconsistent with some improvements in the re-entry vehicles including its control and avionics systems. There may be some reduction in the weight of the re-entry vehicle. “However, they do not appear to be greatly significant... and do not have much impact on the missile range.”

The report further states:“Our assessment of the range of Shaheen 1 was 673 km for a launch from Islamabad in a south eastern (Azimuth 135 degrees) direction with a 1,000 kg re-entry vehicle . We do not find any evidence from the image put out by Pakistan to change this assessment. Longer range is however possible if Pakistan has reduced the missile throw-mass to below 1,000 kg.”

This particular study suggests that the latest Pakistani missile test does not cause too much worry to the Indian establishment. There was an anticipation of such a tit-for-tat launch. Now that the data suggests that it was basically old wine in new bottle with minor tinkering, the Bangalore-based monitoring agency appears to be satisfied.
Pakistan has increased the range of the missile that is for sure but how many KM's are added it is not clear because ISPR didn't told the exact range for some reason as far as other long range Missiles are concerned Pakistan is already working on them and most probably have already developed them only question is when to bring them in front of the whole world and as far as Indian information is concerned the same Indians when Pakistan was about test its first Babur Cruise Missile told their Journalists just few days before the test that Pakistan is far away from making a cruise missile and with in few days we tested Babur
 
Woah woah...look out folks, the Indians have figured us out!
 
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