Divided by a common language

[oct605032048]

Hebrew and Greek are old languages too that is still used today without much if any changes at all.

nope. hebrew used today was re-invented within 100 years or so. As to the greeks, they are just using the same letters.

 

[justanobserver]

^^
Tamil is probably the oldest language in use today

 

[oct605032048]

I also think the Romans expanded too quickly. If they have fully colonise one part of europe at a time and made the native speak all but latin then europe today might have been united. Sure the roman empire might fell but with a common language it will be easier for subsequent rulers to reunite the region.

I am also interested in whether arabic writings today is used by all the tribe in middle east before the time of Muhammad. It seems to me there should be alot of different languages. Also interestingly hebrew looks quite different to arabic.

Latin word is a combination of letters based on the pronounciation, but Chinese character itself is based on meaning. Transport in the ancient time is not as easy as what we have today. so as time went by the same language/dialect branched into many in different regions. The change of accent/dialect makes change of the spell of Latin words and dialects of different regions became different languages in europe.

But dialects in china dose not change our writing system, because the the character itself has its meaning and it will not be affected by its accent. That is the difference.

 

[oct605032048]

The word "Mandarin" sounds so sweet in English(just like "violin") .
Does anyone know why Putonghua(National language)is also called Mandarin?
I heard it is based on language of Manchu(today one of the minority nationalities in China),is that true?
Sun Yat-sen ,founder of Republic of China and also a Cantonese is famous for his hostile statement against Manchus.So that hate Mandarin is also a tradition.

this word exists in the 15 or 16th century and it is far before the foundation of the manchu kingdom of late Jin and Qing dynasty. it is stemmed from an Portuguese word 'mandar' means ‘to command'.

 

[oct605032048]

That is interesting, it looks like a man is looking at stairway towards a mountain, with some kind of object, like rock wall on both side. Dao can mean "The Way", so that made some pictorial sense, doesn't it?

Oh my god I learned something! great explanation haha.

 

[oceanx]

I'm from Hong Kong so my native dialect is Cantonese.

But I have been working very hard to learn Mandarin too, using Rosetta stone software. I work in the field of Business, so it is very useful to learn Putonghua.

Mandarin is the Chinese language of the future, I think most of us know this.

Good to hear my favourite preppie is breaking some serious sweat learning Mandarin. Hats off in earnest !

I have now spent more years here in Canada than in China. And I am very proud of my singular accomplishment: I learned exactly zero Cantonese despite some real pressure in the early years ...

Of course being a refusenik comes with a price ... I still suffer "poor social skills" since they wouldn't serve me even dog food in China Town. Poor me had to hunt out specifically Taiwanese and Vietnamese operated Bubble Tea shops in the 'burbs.

But you need not shed tears about my "trauma". Look at the folks in Shanghai these days - we all speak our dialect at home, but are also fluent in Mandarin from day one.

If they can do it, you can do it.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Good to hear my favourite preppie is breaking some serious sweat learning Mandarin. Hats off in earnest !

LOL @ "preppie".

Look at the folks in Shanghai these days - we all speak our dialect at home, but are also fluent in Mandarin from day one.

I think Hong Kong people should do that too, i.e. speak Cantonese at home, but also be fluent in Mandarin.

 

[praveen]

China was dervied from the word Shina or Cina literally meaning the land of silk or silk in Sanskrit.There was huge trade and commerce during ancient days between china and india not the slugfest it was now.

Regarding oldest continuously used living languages i recomment tamil earliest recorded literature is from the 2 sangam that is around 200-300BC .Then comes Sanskrit and Mandarin

 

[Nomenclature]

In China's case, spoken language and written language were two different thing. Educated Chinese can read writings from Zhou dynasty without problems but we have zero idea how Chinese actually sounded at that time. There's even a debate going on whether Chinese at that time was multi-syllables or single-syllable.

 

[Speeder 2]

China was dervied from the word Shina or Cina literally meaning the land of silk or silk in Sanskrit.There was huge trade and commerce during ancient days between china and india not the slugfest it was now.

Regarding oldest continuously used living languages i recomment tamil earliest recorded literature is from the 2 sangam that is around 200-300BC .Then comes Sanskrit and Mandarin

Dutch/German have been calling Orange Cinapple (means Chinese Apple) for hundreds of years now. So Mandarin must come from German?


There's no connection btw Chinese Mandarina and Sanskirt, which belong to totally seperate language trees.

As for´There was huge trade and commerce during ancient days between china and india`, stop day dreaming will you? The ancient Silk Road didn´t go above or thru or beneath the Himalayas, in fact not everywhere near it.

Most commecial contacts between ancient China and the sub continent ( no so called ´India`back then for sure) were via Persia and nearby Arab traders, the midway hub of the Silk Road.

This is also one of the numerous reasons underlying why China invented the Chess, not `India`, because even Persians and Arabs played Chess (a variant of Chinese Chess, leaked thru to Persia via the Silk Road of China by traders), prior to India´s claims, wherein logically India got Chess from Persia/Arabs.

 

[oceanx]

...
Most commecial contacts between ancient China and the sub continent ( no so called ´India`back then for sure) were via Persia and nearby Arab traders, the midway hub of the Silk Road.
...

Ancient Persia and its various derivatives/components/appendages (Bactria, Sogdia, Khushan, etc) were not really separable from North India.

In that sense, northern part of India was very much integral to the silk road and what not ...

Who invented or played chess was not germane to anything being discussed here.

 

[justanobserver]

why China invented the Chess

Are you one of those 'Han supremacists' that our fellow Chinese members were warning about ?

 

[siegecrossbow]

Actually a very primitive form of Chinese chess existed all the way back to the warring states period. The rules of the game as well as the pieces are very different from those of modern Chinese Chess. There is speculation that modern Chinese chess was influenced by Indian Chess during the Tang Dynasty due to the presence of the "elephant" piece in Chinese Chess but some believe it to be an earlier character for astronomy.

The origin of chess is very heavily contested but most historians currently believe that the direct predecessor of modern "International Chess" originated in Northern India.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

This is also one of the numerous reasons underlying why China invented the Chess, not `India`, because even Persians and Arabs played Chess (a variant of Chinese Chess, leaked thru to Persia via the Silk Road of China by traders), prior to India´s claims, wherein logically India got Chess from Persia/Arabs.

You're putting your British overlords to shame boy,
here let me help

ontopic
Can't China just be multi-lingual officially as Mandarin and Cantonese aren't the only languages spoken?

 

[Speeder 2]

Actually a very primitive form of Chinese chess existed all the way back to the warring states period. The rules of the game as well as the pieces are very different from those of modern Chinese Chess. There is speculation that modern Chinese chess was influenced by Indian Chess during the Tang Dynasty due to the presence of the "elephant" piece in Chinese Chess but some believe it to be an earlier character for astronomy.

The origin of chess is very heavily contested but most historians currently believe that the direct predecessor of modern "International Chess" originated in Northern India.

I respect most your posts which are of high quality , siegecrossbow, but you've overlooked many important historical FACTS related to Chess which are in direct conflict to Indians' ( Indeed Murray's, of British Raj ) claim that "India invented Chess".

This dubious claim has been further peddled in post War era by blatant Anglo propangandas which have brainwashed generations of people.


Please refer to the folowing essay on this subject which I find most convincing:


Was Chess Invented in India?
by Sam Sloan

Chessays - Sloan - India vs. China


Note:

Sam Sloan studied linguistics as a graduate student at New York University, and is the author of a Khowar-English Dictionary. He can speak Khowar, Pashtu and Spanish, as well as some Persian, Arabic and Mandarin Chinese. He has been to 62 countries in the world, including almost all of the countries mentioned in this essay. Sloan is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Berkeley Computer Chess, Inc.



Yes, it is a long essay, but razor sharply logical and highly educational with abundent facts across disciplines. I highly recommend that ALL Chinese members here read it through.


It's a shame and a pity to see we Chinese nowadays trash away our ancestors' inventions alongwith all the genius and hardships they've entailed so so easily. Chess is one of the notable examples. Sigh!!!