DISCUSSION: THUNDER AND TEJAS

[GuardianRED]

Thats what i did . I find JF17 blk3 comparable to less of MK1A

Curious is there any Actual confirm reports on what JF17BlkIII specs will be or its just a wish list?

 

[Mssniper966]

Curious is there any Actual confirm reports on what JF17BlkIII specs will be or its just a wish list?

Well it depends how u define wishlist...if that means that IAF is wishing to remove the defects of the existing tejas...then yeah specs of both jf=17 3 and tejas mark-1A is a wishlist

 

[Gufi]

The real argument is the purpose of the planes. See, Pakistan faces one threat and for that we are readying ourselves with an aircraft designed to take on the Indian Air force with its different planes. The planners have decided to replace the old fighters with the Thunder to build a strong backbone on which to further build. The plane is in proper production and has been tested in different scenarios including that of the operation against TTP.
The argument of which plane or what can happen is another debate but the planners are moving on a set course trying to make a strong air force which is less dependant with time on western systems in general.
We plan to replace most of the jets by 2020 and the target seems very achievable. They may not all feature the latest in sub systems but flying in formation they will be a formidable force.
While Pakistan is slowly but surely phasing out the obsolete air planes that were a very weak back bone even the current JF 17 is a vast improvement the Indian Air force because of its stubbornness has many squadrons now on paper only which are deemed air worthy but are not being flown or being flown sparingly which is not a good sign.
The Indian Air force is not learning from the Indian Navy and is in love with foreign products. They can not decide what route to go and make the Tejas jump hoops while it should have been inducted at least 2 years ago and reached a far greater number of 100 plus to take on the two sided war threat that the Air force plans and trains for.
But instead even now the future of the Tejas is in doubt with the F 16, F 18 and Rafales.
The question the people need to ask the Indian air force is that the latest threat perception and war against China shown by the United States shows the same F 16s and F 18s will not be enough to take on the Chinese air force in a few years time, because the J10, J11 and other flankers are a formidable force with the latest in sub systems being inducted in them. When the newer stealth fighters in route, a formidable air defence system in place, and even more shall be learnt once the s 400 reaches and is understood by the Chinese, the plan of two sided war can not be won by the induction of these planes.
India had a very good jet, it has ruined it by its paper work, and not let it flourish because of its love for foreign products.
The hardest thing is not to design a jet, but to convince the nation that the jet is the one which will be chosen and there is where India has failed.
4th generation technology which is going to be obsolete in a few years is being moved to India and production will reach peak levels in the 2020 range, which is when the planes will already be nearing their days of air dominance.
India should have stuck with the Su 30 and its orders, and the back bone should have been the Tejas which would have now given India ample time to assimilate the Rafale properly into its fold with funds to spare because of savings on the Tejas, and no time crunch.
@Oscar what time line will the Tejas have in terms of becoming obsolete in reference to China and how effective will they be against Pakistan with their 300km range in any war. I believe we are not going to really enter Indian air space and concentrate more on our missiles to target different positions of interest.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Oscar

Can this thread be frozen, please?

How can there be a comarison? The thread is recycling of the old statements and what not... nothing insightful at all, really. Tedious...

How long did it take to develop LCA and JF?

How much money has been spent comparatively on each?

What is the comparative industrial capacity of eah state?

So, a state with vast advantage produces one (LCA) compared to poor neighbour (JF), how can this be an achievement?

Neither of jets are truly local constructs. Even Indian Def Minister admitted that LCA is only 40% local. That IMHO it is generous view, given the design assisstance from abroad. Ditto for JF.

At least JF is officially a Sino-Pak product.

Since, one has no dog in this fight, no offence intended to anyone.

Thanks, Oscar.

At least there are a few rational posters on this colourful forum, onc can learn from and hold in esteem. This coming from older person might have value..

 

[amardeep mishra]

Neither of jets are truly local constructs. Even Indian Def Minister admitted that LCA is only 40% local. That IMHO it is generous view, given the design assisstance from abroad. Ditto for JF.

@Sinopakfriend
I dont know where you pulled that figure from,my friend,but as of 2015,according to none other than the CAG(comptroller auditor general) of india,tejas is 65% indigenous by technology.Mind you that CAG is an autonomous body that has whipped various research labs and army in past for their inefficiencies. I dont think there is any equivalent of CAG in pakistan that has ever audited any military program of pakistan or the funding etc-it is strictly off limits for civilian auditors!
Secondly,65% doesnt mean that an effort wasnt made to indiginize the rest 35%,all it meant was that the 35% technology couldnt be developed according to the specs issues by the user. The problem with a lot of members here is that they are utterly ignorant of the research activities going on india in the field of radars,engines etc,in spite of the fact that most of them get published in open media etc.
Just to give you an example,LRDE bangalore has very active,AESA radar program for both IAF and IN,they have designed various AESA radars in past and in fact hold patent in some of the key technologies of an AESA radar. One of the more recent developments,they have successfully designed a medium powered AESA radar with an instrumented range of 400kms for IAF.The same goes for AESA for LCA.

 

[GuardianRED]

Well it depends how u define wishlist...if that means that IAF is wishing to remove the defects of the existing tejas...then yeah specs of both jf=17 3 and tejas mark-1A is a wishlist

Sorry Pal, The Mark 1A isn't a wish list as most of its equipment is one form or the other is been tested and actual reports from ADA and HAL such as the new engines is already been selected and delivery started, AtoA refueling probe is being tested, weapon system is been selected and finalized, AESA radar is being selected and yet to be finalized... the list is going on... ...etc

It there is any Actual reports for the BLKIII from the PAC or CAC , would really like to see it , its always nice to see an evolution of an aircraft

 

[khail007]

Dear all, accept my heartiest CONGRATULATIONS .... one of the most professional and informative thread on PDF ... I wish to see every thread like this.
Thanks to all participants for sharing their professional knowledge.
Both aircrafts involved are the requirements of the India and Pakistan and definitely according to their needs/requirements. So both aircraft are good in perspective of the ownership.
India already entering advanced phase of aviation technology but for Pakistan it is a first major project and definitely we are in learning phase and determined to learn from it.
All those deficiencies encountered will be overcome in next project - INSHA ALLAH.

 

[Mssniper966]

Sorry Pal, The Mark 1A isn't a wish list as most of its equipment is one form or the other is been tested and actual reports from ADA and HAL such as the new engines is already been selected and delivery started, AtoA refueling probe is being tested, weapon system is been selected and finalized, AESA radar is being selected and yet to be finalized... the list is going on... ...etc

It there is any Actual reports for the BLKIII from the PAC or CAC , would really like to see it , its always nice to see an evolution of an aircraft

I find it interesting that u said that equipment of Tejas Mark-1A has been tested....That explains why Tejas has not achieved final clearance even after so many years of development, because HAL is too busy focusing on the later version rather than the initial version...a new building with weak base is weaker than an old building with a strong base....
That my ''PAL'' is one of the difference between JF-17 & HAL Tejas...
Even if PAK jet fighter developers have only a wishlist, atleast their wishlist can be integrated on a fighter worthy plane....
U can check the official reports of the wishlist of BLK-3 on internet...

 

[SQ8]

Im banning those parroting arguments from the thread.This thread will be very selective in who gets to post and who does not.