Discussion: Is Pakistan's economy failing because it is not a secular nation?

[Sifar zero]

You think the Islamic empire got rich because of Islam, it got rich of loot and slavery.

Same as the Europeans, they also got rich by exploiting and raping us.

 

[Menace2Society]

Same as the Europeans, they also got rich by exploiting and raping us.

They sure did. I am just correcting the poster as he was making the distinction between the two civilizations.

 

[ziaulislam]

Please no arguments or insults. We just want to hear people's opinions.

@Rusty2 Claims that Pakistan's economy is failing due to it not being a secular nation, and the west's economy is flourishing due to that same secularism.
(Please correct me Rusty if that's not what you claim)

I disagree and I think the problems are more due to the incompetent governance and bad economic policies.

Or maybe he's right and we had the most competent leadership, the most effective economic policies, employment readily available, tons of natural resources like oils, minerals and gas.

Ishaq Dar is/was a total magician, our great national leaders like Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, and Zardari were perfect governors but secularism was missing hence today it is failing.

@PakFactor @That Guy @Al_Muhannad @epebble @ziaulislam @SaadH @Erieye @Mirzali Khan @_NOBODY_ @313ghazi @MastanKhan @SQ8 @Great Janjua @FuturePAF

north korea is successful because its secular nation
so is Israel

 

[Menace2Society]

north korea is successful because its secular nation
so is Israel

Israel is not secular but it is extremely successful. Have a look at the amount of inventions they have created.

North Korea is a dictatorship of the most retarded psychotic kind. It is a wet dream for a TLP type jahil.

 

[PradoTLC]

Please no arguments or insults. We just want to hear people's opinions.

@Rusty2 Claims that Pakistan's economy is failing due to it not being a secular nation, and the west's economy is flourishing due to that same secularism.
(Please correct me Rusty if that's not what you claim)

I disagree and I think the problems are more due to the incompetent governance and bad economic policies.

Or maybe he's right and we had the most competent leadership, the most effective economic policies, employment readily available, tons of natural resources like oils, minerals and gas.

Ishaq Dar is/was a total magician, our great national leaders like Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, and Zardari were perfect governors but secularism was missing hence today it is failing.

@PakFactor @That Guy @Al_Muhannad @epebble @ziaulislam @SaadH @Erieye @Mirzali Khan @_NOBODY_ @313ghazi @MastanKhan @SQ8 @Great Janjua @FuturePAF

if you really understood Islamic concepts.. you would realise this such a retarded question..


lets put it another way..

give me an example of robust Islamic principles being applied?


lets see

Truth - 100% fail

Honesty - 100% fail

Merit - 100% fail

Good manners - 2000% fail

etc

 

[SQ8]

It's secular/religious nature has nothing to do with its failure.

The problem is with its economy and the ones who control it.

For years I argued against people who called Pakistan a banana republic, yet I'm more and more finding myself on the verge of agreeing with them.

The very foundation of Pakistan is being destroyed by the elites, the corrupt, and the ones who rule. They do not see that they are doing to Pakistan what India has been dreaming about for years.

It is a sick and twisted joke.

I remember telling @SQ8 a while back that I had given up on Pakistan, I stand by that statement until proven otherwise.

Its nature of the people itself has rotted away. The true ML Cadre sidelined - sycophants and opportunists taking over then.. the result is what you see today. The product that is the Pakistan today is in general so bad at understanding current events and their own actions that they could not change a thing even if Elon Musk and Warren Buffet both decide to donate all of their wealth to them.

Unfortunately, the solution to Pakistan’s problems seems to be the one that got them here in the first place. A repressive dictatorship that focuses on the economy and is draconian in its implementation of that goal.

 

[El Sidd]

8 votes for yes.
27 votes for no.

In between are dozens of posts by people who didn't bother to vote but proceeded to perform mental gymnastics.

 

[Rusty2]

Correlation is not causation.

Also, there haven't been any (notable) muslim majority, secular states before the republic of Turkey, I think.

So, that would mean the there was no rich muslim state before that?

True, but just look at the numbers.
All advanced societies are secular, while majority of the least developed nations are not.
Post industrial revolution, which Muslim theocracies have ever been rich? (outside lottery winning oil states)

USA, which is for all practical purposes a Christian state or at least was during its growth and advancement state. In fact it was a racist, ethnocentric and dogmatic throughout this phase.

It is in a decline now arguably since secularism has taken deep root in society and governance.

The US has very defined separation between church and sate from day one.

 

[villageidiot]

True, but just look at the numbers.
All advanced societies are secular, while majority of the least developed nations are not.
Post industrial revolution, which Muslim theocracies have ever been rich? (outside lottery winning oil states)

Again, sir. That's correlation. Fruits of colonialism and imperialism.

Muslims empires were prosperous when they were conquering and looting. All that money enabled the relative improvement in public welfare compared to the christian empires, scientific research because the kings and sultans were patrons of scholars when they had money.

Same with the christians, when the Roman empire was kicking a*s all over the known world, except China.

It's old wisdom Jis ki laathi us ke bhains , geopolitics and all.
Present day notion of secularism just came around a few centuries ago. That too, ironically, because of the advances in philosophical thought brought about by the fact that more and more people didn't have to toil for basic sustenance due to abundance of money and could indulge in these activities.

 

[VCheng]

It's old wisdom Jis ki laathi us ke bhains , geopolitics and all.

As you were saying?

predisposed to stating the obvious and repeating himself.

 

[villageidiot]

As you were saying?

You are clutching on straws.
I am not a repeat offender

 

[VCheng]

You are clutching on straws.
I am not a repeat offender

Right. In your opinion, about yourself.

And goodbye.

 

[Hulk]

True.
How many theocracies, outside of oil states, are rich?

Okay, so I am actually heading out (got kick bocking practice
Will be back in 2 hours and I will make my case. Please hold off until them.
Thank You

You are right, just a little explanation. Not being secular in itself cannot make you poor. However, if you are driven by religion to take bad economic decisions then of course.

 

[villageidiot]

Right. In your opinion, about yourself.

And goodbye.

Running away?
Why don't you prove me wrong? Since you made the effort to quote my reply to a another person on another thread, in an attempt at what you might have considered a putdown.

 

[VCheng]

if you really understood Islamic concepts.. you would realise this such a retarded question..


lets put it another way..

give me an example of robust Islamic principles being applied?


lets see

Truth - 100% fail

Honesty - 100% fail

Merit - 100% fail

Good manners - 2000% fail

etc

So what good are such "robust" principles that have never been successfully applied? Clearly, they seem to be beyond mere mortals to ever achieve 100%, if so.