Discussion: Donald Trump as POTUS and its implications for Pak-US relations

[Solomon2]

Back in 2008 Obama was the most extreme candidate when it came to Pakistan: the only one who publicly vowed to intervene militarily in Pakistan to fight terrorism if necessary without the consent of the Pakistani government. I don't see that happening under Trump, but I don't see him being as generous with military aid to Pakistan either.

I can guess that Trump's advisers are aware that U.S. aid necessarily comes with strings attached and that Pakistanis resent that intensely, if only for cultural reasons. IMO it would be better not to provide aid at all or to try to make ALL aid straight-out gifts rather than quid-pro-quo transactions, just as the Chinese, Germans, Turks, and some others do.

 

[IceCold]

Prepare better Dossiers.

(It looks really thin considering India is responsible for everything including the high costs of petrol.)

China will look out for China. Pakistan can be "China's Israel" but even America carefully considers it's battles for Israel.

America wants results. Listen don't come off on me, Pakistan has made accomplishments in it's fight on it's part against Terrorism. But you can't bit<h about getting cut when you're doing the cutting too.

Lets see how the Taliban-Afghan Govt peace talks go. If Pakistan can come out front and take credit it'll be in it's interests to be the country that ends America's longest war.

Unless you think the problem is with the dossiers, i think it was more to Pakistan knocking on the wrong door. If you believe US isnt aware of Indian terrorism, than you are mistaken or naive. US is fully aware, its just that they tend to look the other way because it serves their interest. Just like what they do with Israel. Pakistan like any other country has look after its own interest before we tend to others. That alone puts us at odds with the US. Pakistan was fully backing the Afghan taliban peace process until US attacked and killed Mullah Mansoor. Pakistan cannot be blamed for it.

 

[ito]

Not much change for Pakistan...Trump will follow Obama's polcy with regards to Pakistan.

 

[Steve781]

Those wondering where Trump might stand on this or that foreign policy issue are missing the point: he isn't really that interested in foreign policy. He'll try to get involved as little as possible.

 

[war&peace]

Not much change for Pakistan...Trump will follow Obama's polcy with regards to Pakistan.

I think there will be a marked deviation from Obama's policies vis-a-vis Pakistan since Trump is totally opposite to Obama. However, he will be balanced by the establishment.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Really for simple addition and subtraction, I need a class..Thank you mate,
I don't want to get into personal *ick measuring contest but since I have been asked, I have rather a strong background with double MS degrees in Aerospace Engineering and IT.
Now if you are over anger, shouldn't we get back to topic and use facts and logics?

I explained my reasoning of this. +/-3 points that too based on in many case, being global, the individual polling information from individuals connected to a tele/cellphone or internet connection. In many cases these individuals are "well-off", and there is still the sample bias coming from respondents who aren't just going to say "Hey I support ____" when it's a taboo subject or stance.

Good job on your education.

 

[deckingraj]

That is the problem and which will lead to a conflict ultimately. US and Indian interests are aligned and Pakistan cannot be part of this new alliance.

Nopes...US and Indian interests align viz-a-viz China(actually not fully but lot of convergence) however they don't on Pakistan...As long as Pakistan can deliver on US war in AF things are going to be smooth...as said letting go Pakistan is against America's interest...and the only thing that will push this relation is going to be Pakistan's actions or lack of on terror threatening US interests in AF. Now mind it i am not saying US will simply ignore India's concerns and surely they will be more assertive(if trump sticks to his words) with Pakistan however nothing that will break the relation for good....

I used the word IF. What do you think will happen to Chinese investment if Pakistan gets decimated in US and Indian attack? This is pure business and nothing sentimental.

Do you know how much is the the chinese investments in US?? They have a $350 billion trade surplus there....so once again as long as their interests are intact expect no more than moral support from them...

 

[war&peace]

I explained my reasoning of this. +/-3 points that too based on in many case, being global, the individual polling information from individuals connected to a tele/cellphone or internet connection. In many cases these individuals are "well-off", and there is still the sample bias coming from respondents who aren't just going to say "Hey I support ____" when it's a taboo subject or stance.

Good job on your education.

If you will add Isb, Lahore and Karachi...the results will be more pro-US though IDK what happens after yesterday's election results.
By the way, Pakistanis do not give *uck to what other think when they give their opinions especially on USA. However people are truly against ISIS and Talibans.

 

[django]

Finally, Donald Trump has won the election and been elected the president of the USA (PotUS) by people of USA. The purpose of this thread is to discuss its implications for Pak-USA relations (NOT whether it is a wrong decision or a good decision by US people).
It will be interesting to see how our predictions / opinions it turns out in reality over the course of time given the apparent notion about Donald Trump being an unpredictable and an anti-establishment character. We should also keep in my mind that USA is a big establishment (CIA, Pentagon, NSA, Think Tanks, Banker, Billionaires, Oil Cartel, defence industry) and that determines the long term policies and at least one hand of PotUS is believed to be tied to his neck.

I pose the following question to the audience to start the discussion. Please feel free to add relevant questions
Will the apparent thawing of relations between the two countries will accelerate, decelerate or we will be up for some surprises (in positive sense). How would this affect USA-India, US-China, US-Russia and US-other relations and their fallout on Pakistan.
Will USA continue to feed Afghanistan? as Donald Trump does not believe in free lunches and also wants good relations with Russia

To avoid trolling I have created this thread in seniors cafe, but not to exclude the juniors

@MastanKhan @Oscar @Kaptaan @Khafee @Indus Falcon @GreenFalcon @waz @Horus @Moonlight @risingsinga @Spring Onion @Akheilos @Arsalan @django @KAL-EL

I honestly believe this man will pay little or no attention to any global affairs, he has no political philosophy just self aggrandisement , their has never ever been a individual this unqualified who has reached such heights of power, I suspect Mike Pence will run things whilst Trump tweets and gives speeches and the worst thing any of our leaders could do is to get on the wrong side on a personal level with this ill tempered, bitter, vindictive and malevolent charlatan.Kudos

 

[war&peace]

I honestly believe this man will pay little or no attention to any global affairs, he has no political philosophy just self aggrandisement , their has never ever been a individual this unqualified who has reached such heights of power, I suspect Mike Pence will run things whilst Trump tweets and gives speeches and the worst thing any of our leaders could do is to get on the wrong side on a personal level with this ill tempered, bitter, vindictive and malevolent charlatan.Kudos

I'm expecting Monika Lewinky part 2 to be released sooner or later and DD (Donald Duck) getting impeached.

 

[django]

I'm expecting Monika Lewinky part 2 to be released sooner or later and DD (Donald Duck) getting impeached.

Apparently he also has a rape trial to deal with.Kudos

 

[IceCold]

Nopes...US and Indian interests align viz-a-viz China(actually not fully but lot of convergence) however they don't on Pakistan...As long as Pakistan can deliver on US war in AF things are going to be smooth...as said letting go Pakistan is against America's interest...and the only thing that will push this relation is going to be Pakistan's actions or lack of on terror threatening US interests in AF. Now mind it i am not saying US will simply ignore India's concerns and surely they will be more assertive(if trump sticks to his words) with Pakistan however nothing that will break the relation for good....

Again what more do you think Pakistan can or cannot deliver since 9/11? Isnt it obvious that from US perspective Pakistan delivered almost nothing and has been a dubious partner? Why would Trump believe otherwise?
Besides China there is also the Indian market that US is looking to tap in. So its the economic factor plus the strategic factor which alone are big enough to keep US and India allies in the foreseeable future.

Do you know how much is the the chinese investments in US?? They have a $350 billion trade surplus there....so once again as long as their interests are intact expect no more than moral support from them...

Despite all that investment US and China are not allies rather adversaries. Besides i can make a similar argument that considering huge Chinese investment in US, will US really want to risk it? But than we all know superpowers dont work that way. They also have strategic interests to look after. Yes?
Let us forget the investment factor for the moment and focus on strategic factor and its implications if China loses Pakistan as an ally. It will mean that India will be left unchallenged and one who could focus solely on China. Isnt this a popular believe amongst Indians as well that Pakistan is used by China to contain India? I am just using a counter narrative.
US and China will not go to war directly, perhaps because super powers dont fight like that but that still does not mean that one will be left unchallenged while the other suffers. If Pakistan is taken out of the equation that will put China on a severe disadvantage viz-a-viz India and USA. Now take your pick which side China is going to take.

 

[war&peace]

Apparently he also has a rape trial to deal with.Kudos

IDK how does his election as POTUS will affect the proceeding and the decision but I don't pin a lot of hope in that. A rich person can usually get away in USA..there can be an out of the court settlement.

 

[django]

IDK how does his election as POTUS will affect the proceeding and the decision but I don't pin a lot of hope in that. A rich person can usually get away in USA..there can be an out of the court settlement.

Trump called John McCain a loser for getting captured, apparently McCain got 1.5 million more votes, Trump called Romney a loser, Romney got 2 million more votes than him, and they both lost badly, I do not think this man is very popular, he was just in the right place at the right time, maybe he will get impeached if he goes after one of his critics, the man is temperamentally unfit to be a police officer let alone POTUS.Kudos

 

[Solomon2]

Again what more do you think Pakistan can or cannot deliver since 9/11?

It isn't about what Pakistan can deliver since 9/11. It's about what Pakistan can deliver since 5/2 - the day America hunted down and killed Osama bin Laden in his safe house on Pakistani soil. Does Pakistan have the guts to eviscerate all its internal demons or not?