Disappointed By Arab Leaderships Neglect of Pakistani Sacrifices

[Pakistani E]

Raheel Sharif,s mere presence makes us an important player here

Please stop this personality worship. Raheel Sharif is one man, I respected his decision not to request extension because I understood he believed he had done his part for the nation. But honestly, if he was just going to go and head up a military force anyway, why not stay in Pakistan and get an extension and finish the fight you started here before taking the tekha of other peoples?

 

[Hassan_Ishtiaq]

What you state is 100% true, and I have always tried to explain this to fellow Pakistanis. Whenever I have criticized Pakistan, reform has been my only intention.

It takes great courage to look at one self critically and accept your faults and deficiencies. At this moment in time, most Pakistanis are not willing to accept that. They have deluded themselves in to thinking that we are some high and important nation that can influence the fate of history, what they don't see is that we are just pawns, being used by other nations to prop up themselves and ensure their own survival.

We are surrounded by hostile nations, and yet they only show their hostility openly because they know, we are a divided people, with groups within us looking after the interests of foreign nations. We do not stand united yet, and I will continue to hammer this home until we get it through our thick Indus skulls.

Our people have been in this state because anyone making a helpful suggestion in the midst of the mass ignorance is quickly labeled a foreign agent. Like on this thread i was called "Iranian propaganda" when i'm a Sunni Hanafi adherent .

I have no issue with having cordial and friendly nations with the Arab world. But it should be the same with our Iranic friends as well. The relationship should be equal on both footings. The benefits are there indeed, if we are careful in balancing this. Look at India, they don't have to become someone elses' stooges to reap economic benefits. But we must go and die in Yemen or Syria to be considered worthy of respect?

Exactly. I'm all for have cordial ties with every country (except india, for obvious reasons). Why should we have to join someone else's rivalries in order to be their "friend"?

If a relationship is based on coercion and black mailing then that's not a friendship.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

What you state is 100% true, and I have always tried to explain this to fellow Pakistanis. Whenever I have criticized Pakistan, reform has been my only intention.

It takes great courage to look at one self critically and accept your faults and deficiencies. At this moment in time, most Pakistanis are not willing to accept that. They have deluded themselves in to thinking that we are some high and important nation that can influence the fate of history, what they don't see is that we are just pawns, being used by other nations to prop up themselves and ensure their own survival.

We are surrounded by hostile nations, and yet they only show their hostility openly because they know, we are a divided people, with groups within us looking after the interests of foreign nations. We do not stand united yet, and I will continue to hammer this home until we get it through our thick Indus skulls.

No, my Pak Brother,

It is NOT the fault of common Paks... they are just surviving... it is the elite which have conditioned them into believing these false notions.

Corrupte elite keeps them poor and sick mullahs keep them stupid...

It is the tragic truth.

The Challenge is for Young Paks who consider them educated....the ones like here on PDF to change first. Accpet their true Identity as Young Inheritors of an Ancient Civilisation...

Has religion stopped your brother Turks from believing their Ancient Heritage?

@HAKIKAT @Combat-Master @cabatli_53 these Turk brothers of yours can tell you..

No. Let us not loose hope... let us take ownership of the harsh truths..and let us look uptwords heavens and not at our feet.

Chin ups, all of you Young Paks!

Pak is here to stay and prosper...dark clouds of corruption and terrorism are almost over.

HOPE is the pillar that keeps Heavens from falling on Earth. NEVER loos HOPE!

Bless you, Young Paks!

 

[Hassan_Ishtiaq]

We should stay out of it but we should use this alliance to our advantage

Well, can you give me one example in which this alliance will assist us vis a vis india?

Also, Iranians ad Arabs don't make deals with india on the condition that they join in their war effort in order to be considered a friendly nation?

These Arabs throw crums our way and then demand we send our sons to die for them. This is literally like medieval times where Arabs hired Mamluks to fight their wars, basically an insult.

 

[Pakistani E]

Our people have been in this state because anyone making a helpful suggestion in the midst of the mass ignorance is quickly labeled a foreign agent. Like on this thread i was called "Iranian propaganda" when i'm a Sunni Hanafi adherent .

Hah! And I am an Ahmadi, so I am already the devil incarnate in some eyes. But I was a Pakistani before I even knew how to spell the word religion. Religion can change, what you are as a person cannot.

 

[Hassan_Ishtiaq]

No, my Pak Brother,

It is NOT the fault of common Paks... they are just surviving... it is the elite which have conditioned them into believing these false notions.

Corrupte elite keeps them poor and sick mullahs keep them stupid...

It is the tragic truth.

The Challenge is for Young Paks who consider them educated....the ones like here on PDF to change first. Accpet their true Identity as Young Inheritors of an Ancient Civilisation...

Has religion stopped your brother Turks from believing their Ancient Heritage?

@HAKIKAT @Combat-Master @cabatli_53 these Turk brothers of yours can tell you..

No. Let us not loose hope... let us take ownership of the harsh truths..and let us look uptwords heavens and not at our feet.

Chin ups, all of you Young Paks!

Pak is here to stay and prosper...dark clouds of corruption and terrorism are almost over.

HOPE is the pillar that keeps Heavens from falling on Earth. NEVER loos HOPE!

Bless you, Young Paks!

The problem with us Pakistanis is that we don't have a strong national identity to form our psychological backbone. Turks have a strong Turkic history behind them. We Pakistanis need to form our own unique identity and this requires nationalism which imho is not a bad thing because that is what we are currently lacking, and by Nationalism is mean genuine Nationalism and not a false "nationalism" that reeks of ignorance.

 

[Zibago]

But honestly, if he was just going to go and head up a military force anyway, why not stay in Pakistan and get an extension and finish the fight you started here before taking the tekha of other peoples?

An extremely anti Indian Pakistani is head of a 50+ nation alliance dont you think this will help us in the long run?
Think about it anti ballistic systems in all major cities of this alliance who will it anger the most?
See it from a perspective i do

why not stay in Pakistan and get an extension and finish the fight

I was kind of disappointed after his departure Bajwa is very weak people even in the army dont respect him that much

This alliance hasnt even defined its goals and we Pakistanis are being critical of it we should wait and see what happens we will not be part of any anti Iran war

 

[Pakistani E]

Think about it anti ballistic systems in all major cities of this alliance who will it anger the most?

That won't happen in our lifetime.

An extremely anti Indian Pakistani is head of a 50+ nation alliance dont you think this will help us in the long run?

Okay, how much is long term, and what is the plan to limit the influence of Indian Diaspora in the middle east? Are we getting more visa quotas? Will investment by state bodies of these alliance nations be earmarked for Pakistan over India?

Will there be a definite clause to defend ALL the nations in alliance as one for all and all for one? Will the GCC nations seriously look at curbing funding of extremist madrassahs that was acknowledged by our intelligence agencies?

I can't see too long in this I am afraid, I have yet to fully understand what this alliance is all about. It was supposed to counter terrorist organisations and fight ISIS etc, yet their first exercise involved mostly conventional arms. You can't say this is an Islamic Alliance, if the largest Shia country is excluded from it.

I was kind of disappointed after his departure Bajwa is very weak people even in the army dont respect him that much

General Bajwa is an extremely dedicated man with impeccable integrity. But he does not have the same charisma like General Sharif.

This alliance hasnt even defined its goals and we Pakistanis are being critical of it we should wait and see what happens we will not be part of any anti Iran war

That's exactly what I am saying, it is too poorly defined, it does have not clear and feasible objectives or targets. Yet we joined anyway, after rejecting all the time we were in it until the Saudis said we are, and then our "Leaders" (read Khotas) said yes we are.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

The problem with us Pakistanis is that we don't have a strong national identity to form our psychological backbone. Turks have a strong Turkic history behind them. We Pakistanis need to form our own unique identity and this requires nationalism which imho is not a bad thing because that is what we are currently lacking, and by Nationalism is mean genuine Nationalism and not a false "nationalism" that reeks of ignorance.

My dear Young Pak, no!

You don't need to 'form' a national identity.

You have your Civilisation Identity which is 10000 years old.

All you have to do is to ACCEPT who you are. Just look at your faces...it is the legacy of last 270 years that needs to washed away.

Let the Spirit of Indus flow free in your veins...my young brother.

Mr. Zia turned the country into theocracy at the behest of someone elsse... mullahs got unleashed...before that Mr. ZAB...before that good old dictators..

Anyhow, what matter is here and now.

What matters is YOU. When you start accepting who your are...even here at PDF... other Young Paks will join you...

From one to two..from two to hundred and from hundred to millions...

Just accept that YOU are the inheritor of one of the most ancient civilisations..

It is good feeling to have... but also brings responsibility of action with it.

I have hopes for you lot!

 

[Isotope]

Pakistanis have no self respect at all, look at how they were sitting like good slaves. Reminds me of the early medieval era when the Turks were brought in as slave soldiers and bureaucrats, but unlike the Turks, we are a morally bankrupt nation. We act like slaves and beggars, and then expect to be taken seriously at world stage.

I abhor nationalism in all forms, but I do wish sometimes Pakistanis were a bit more nationalist and self centered, no other nuclear power in the world is treated as a door mat.

Why did he even go there?

 

[Pakistani E]

Why did he even go there?

That is the small million dollar question.

Maybe to show Trump that Pakistan was on the Saudis side in their war with Iran, since a lot of his speech was centered on confronting Iran and its' allies in the region. At least that could be one of the reasons that comes to my mind.

 

[Zibago]

That won't happen in our lifetime.

Who knows it may just happen
@EgyptianAmerican

Okay, how much is long term, and what is the plan to limit the influence of Indian Diaspora in the middle east? Are we getting more visa quotas? Will investment by state bodies of these alliance nations be earmarked for Pakistan over India?

Let them stay but our participation will force Saudia to make policies that help us and our people in the long run

if the largest Shia country is excluded from it.

The second and third largest are in it so it evens out

Will there be a definite clause to defend ALL the nations in alliance as one for all and all for one? Will the GCC nations seriously look at curbing funding of extremist madrassahs that was acknowledged by our intelligence agencies?

Well wait and see and not jump to conclusions

That's exactly what I am saying, it is too poorly defined, it does have not clear and feasible objectives or targets. Yet we joined anyway, after rejecting all the time we were in it until the Saudis said we are, and then our "Leaders" (read Khotas) said yes we are.

And why not give it the benefit of doubt?

General Bajwa is an extremely dedicated man with impeccable integrity. But he does not have the same charisma like General Sharif.

Lets just say i look at some of his decisions negatively

 

[Isotope]

That is the small million dollar question.

Maybe to show Trump that Pakistan was on the Saudis side in their war with Iran, since a lot of his speech was centered on confronting Iran and its' allies in the region. At least that could be one of the reasons that comes to my mind.

Agree, and in that case, he could have done many things after the summit to explain his country's position, at least could have held a press conference on his own. This guy however does not speak for Pakistan, he knows if he does, then in a heart beat India would step on his tail on his business interests in India. There is reason why he is India's favorite blue eyed boy.

 

[Zibago]

So you think us arabs betrayed muslims and pakistanis by Trump not mentioning Pakistan in a speech? So a speech mostly between Saudi Arabia and America, Saudi Arabia should have gone running around and praising the many Pakistani's who died due to terrorism?

Have you at any time praised Saudi Arabia and their lost soldiers thanks to terrorists in a meeting between you and China? No? Are you guys traitors to Muslims and backstabbers?


Please get off your bloody high horse, you aren't representative of the Pakistani populace and do not have the right to speak on their behalf.

"Pakistan has enjoyed a close and strong historical relationship with the Middle-Eastern region, particularly Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Syria, Jordan, Yemen and Lebanon. Today there are over One million Pakistanis living and working in Saudi Arabia alone, with a similar number in other Persian Gulf region countries that constitute the Arab League."

"These ties were put to the test when a massive earth-quake hit Pakistan's Northern Areas in 2005 with Saudi Arabia & UAE promptly dispatching critical aid, not only in terms of medicine & essential supplies but massive injunction of billions of dollars for the reconstruction of the region."

" Pakistan also enjoys extensive cultural & defense/military ties with most of the Arab League member states. Pakistan also has extensive trade ties with Arab League states, especially Saudi Arabia and the UAE with Saudi Arabia ranking as Pakistan's second largest trading partner after the United States. With such close association to the Arab League, Pakistan was also invited by Russian President, Vladimir Putin in 2006 to the First Session of the Russia-Islamic World Strategic Vision Group in 2006 in a bid to strengthen Moscow's ties with the big players in the Muslim world."

"Army, Naval and Air Force cadets from many of the Arab League countries routinely enroll in training courses in Pakistan's well-recognized military academies while Pakistan Air Force pilots have flown Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian and Saudi fighter jets in both wars (1967 & 1973 against Israel) & peacetime as part of their 'foreign deployments'.Units from the Pakistan Army, Navy and Air Force also serve allotted time periods in their respective fields in Saudi Arabia and UAE as instructors, maintenance crews, etc. while there are strong indications that a company of Elite Pakistani Commandos, the SSG maintains a permanent unit in Saudi Arabia to safeguard Islam's holiest sites as well as the Saudi Royal Family. Much of the United Arab Emirates Air Force and Army is made up of Pakistani military personnel."

"In 2007 Pakistani President, Pervez Musharraf attended the Arab League summit held in Riyadh even though Pakistan had not yet gained 'Observer Member' status. Pakistan is currently in the stages of finalizing a Free Trade Agreement with the GCC countries, many of whom are also part of the Arab League while talks continue to grant Pakistan the 'Observer' status in the coming months. The country also has a long history of being an ardent supporter of several Arab causes, including Palestine, Iraq, Somalian crisis, etc."

"There are over hundreds and thousands of Pakistanis in the Middle East, and many Arabs in Pakistan as well as Pakistani people who have historical Arabic origins."

He is just angry at Pakistani leaders thats all there is to it view of Arabs in general is positive in Pakistan(We had a lot of Iraqi and Palestenian refugees back in the day) GCC is a different ball game on which view varies my view is neutral on GCC we should improve our economic and military ties with them but keep a safe distance from their Mullahs(and our own )we should use this alliance to our advantage and being the second biggest shia state steer it away from a sectarian pothole

I give a damn about potus and Pakistani premier but india gets mentioned as a victim of terrorism means Pakistan is a terrorist country. At least hosts should have mentioned this and tried to balance this in their speech, if they couldn't stop trump from mentioning india.

WHy blame them when our own leader went their only to get a new letter?

That's rich coming from an Arab. You people have a degree in arrogance and racism. Look at how you treat Black Africans in your countries

His country is Egypt which is a lot like Pakistan in many ways Quwaits are spoiled GCC brats

 

[The Sandman]

While Trump was singing praises on the various nations that experienced terrorism, though conveniently leaving out Pakistan the one country that suffered the most since the "War on Terror", the biggest let down was from our so called Arab "allies" the Saudis and other GCC leaders who did not even bother to acknowledge Pakistani sacrifices. Forget Trump, why didn't our Muslim Allies, the home of the two Holy sites of Islam, acknowledge the blood we gave to fight terrorism who's roots ironically are in their very countries???

And while they were locked in their love dance with Trump they sent a meager city governor to greet our disgraced PM Sharif. And i say disgraced because that is exactly what it was. Sure, ganja saab isn't exactly one to respect, but at least out of respect for the Pakistani nation they could have shown some kind of decency with the way they greeted a high level leader of a country they call "our Muslim brother country"??


But honestly, why should this even come as a surprise? These same ungrateful and back stabbing Arabs cursed us and threatened us of "grave consequences" because we didn't send our sons to die in their pathetic tribal wars in Yemen, Syria, and Iraq! Meanwhile they are the biggest back stabbers in the history of Islam when they betrayed the Ottoman Empire and assisted the Zionists. Arabs are the biggest traitors to Islam and give all Muslims a bad name with their arrogance. Because of Arab terrorists hiding in our Tribal areas and using Pakistani soil for terrorist attacks we Pakistani got a bad image in front of the whole world.

@django @Zibago @The Sandman @Psychic @The Deterrent @Starlord @Mentee @Asim B. @Sami Ansari @American Pakistani @Desert Fox @Windjammer @EgyptianAmerican @The Eagle @Nilgiri @cabatli_53

We've to earn the respect not demand it... sometimes i wish we get leaders like Ayub Khan once again...