Disappointed By Arab Leaderships Neglect of Pakistani Sacrifices

[EgyptianAmerican]

Mate, I haven nothing against anyone of you guys, but my countrymen have serious inferiority complex when it comes to our neighbours in the middle east. I hold nothing against any Middle eastern countries for working towards their own national interests and goals, but we Pakistanis are always trying to please others.

Which other nuclear power is held hostage by a nation like Afghanistan? We can't even secure our borders against the drug addicts of Naswarland, this would make any self respecting man who loves his nation question his leaders foreign policy.

There was no reason for NS to be there, we are not part of the Arab league.

Well, look at Egypt for example, you would think for a nation of 93 million people that we would be able to put down a ISIS insurrection in Sinai within 1 month but it has been going on for years now. You would think a nation of 93 million would stand up when authoritarians take away your free-speech or weaken our integral institutions but they don't.

All of our nations have weaknesses and all of our nations have acted stupidly. Just because you have terrorists doesn't make you a slave to anybody. So far from the relations I have seen between Arabs and Pakistanis has mainly been Arabs relying on Pakistanis You guys taught nearly every pilot in the GCC how to fly and how to get our act together I hardly think of Pakistan as a slave when it comes to foreign policy with Arabs on the contrary it seems like you have quite the upper hand.

I would very much like to know which action makes you think you are slaves to us?

 

[Pakistani E]

Well, look at Egypt for example, you would think for a nation of 93 million people that we would be able to put down a ISIS insurrection in Sinai within 1 month but it has been going on for years now. You would think a nation of 93 million would stand up when authoritarians take away your free-speech or weaken our integral institutions but they don't.

All of our nations have weaknesses and all of our nations have acted stupidly. Just because you have terrorists doesn't make you a slave to anybody. So far from the relations I have seen between Arabs and Pakistanis has mainly been Arabs relying on Pakistanis You guys taught nearly every pilot in the GCC how to fly and how to get our act together I hardly think of Pakistan as a slave when it comes to foreign policy with Arabs on the contrary it seems like you have quite the upper hand.

I would very much like to know which action makes you think you are slaves to us?

It's not about terrorism alone, a lot of actions in the past has centered around fulfilling the wishes of others, even if it is at a cost to Pakistan itself. The so called Afghan Jihad comes to mind. The affects of that are still resounding quite loudly in Pakistan. Of course, I know our own leaders are the ones who got us in to this mess but the propping up of madrassahs with Saudi funding have only exacerbated sectarian tensions.

My main issue is this, what is happening in the middle east in relation to the rivalry between Iran and Saudi Arabia is causing further unrest and violence in the wider Islamic world, civil wars are raging in different countries due to the rivalry between the two, with Pakistani jumping to one side and joining in an alliance of one party, I believe it has acted too hastily where it should have tread with more caution, while we should have been trying to either bring both parties to the table or acting completely neutral, we are now a party to this conflict, at least that seems to be the perception.

This has been and continues to be used to spread discord within Pakistan. We are already fighting a civil war with one set of religious extremists, the last thing Pakistan needs is to have another set of extremists propped up against us.

This is besides the fact that there are on going cases in court about certain royal families of GCC dealings with NS, I am sure you have come across many threads running on this forum with regards to them so I don't want to take this thread there.

Then we had the defence minister of UAE threatening Pakistan. Like this retard's, whole country's security foundations are built by countless Pakistani Service personnel, and this guy has the gall to speak like this, why? Only because we refuse to send our soldiers in to Yemen to fight another of their pointless sectarian war?

But they feel they can talk this way to Pakistan because we seem to bend over backwards to please the GCC, like allowing endangered species to be hunted again by certain royalties while it is labelled as "diplomacy" by our leaders.

I have a long list of things to be honest, including the interfering of the Saudis in saving NS from accountability, the giving of a $1 billion gift to NS again, which the people of Pakistan did not see any benefit off, which suspiciously looked like a bribe.

But again, I should have clarified, my issue is mostly with GCC and not with Egypt. Never had any problems, and never will. Egypt and Jordan are two countries I admire the most in the Middle-east and North Africa.

Agree, and in that case, he could have done many things after the summit to explain his country's position, at least could have held a press conference on his own. This guy however does not speak for Pakistan, he knows if he does, then in a heart beat India would step on his tail on his business interests in India. There is reason why he is India's favorite blue eyed boy.

But he is indebted to the Saudis for saving his backside during Musharraf's tenure. So obviously he will feel he owes the Saudis his life. He will go where they want him to, and will do as they say.

This is a simple case of conflict of interests. His interests conflict with the interests of the nation, but NS, being a Kashmiri, who once gets his fingers in the broth, he won't leave it until he has had its full.
@Zibago

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

This has been and continues to be used to spread discord within Pakistan. We are already fighting a civil war with one set of religious extremists, the last thing Pakistan needs is to have another set of extremists propped up against us.

Well, I hardly doubt a Shia would commit a terrorist attack.

Then we had the defence minister of UAE threatening Pakistan. Like this retard', whole country's security foundations are built by countless Pakistani Service personnel, and this guy has the gall to speak like this, why? Only because we refuse to send our soldiers in to Yemen to fight another of their pointless sectarian war?

If the defense minister really said that then he is an idiot. Nobody wants to threaten or force Pakistan into anything.

like allowing endangered species to be hunted again by certain royalties while it is labelled as "diplomacy" by our leaders.

I agree such privileges should not be extended to royalty.


Nonetheless you bring up a lot of good points but I hardly see you as our slaves in any capacity. Obviously Pakistan is choosing to be nice to the GCC for strategic purposes, just like how KSA is nice to the U.S for strategic purposes. You seriously think any Saudi royal or Saudi citizen wants to actually have Donald trump in their country? We all put up with it in the name of our national interests.

Don't worry Pakistan will come out on top, you lot always have

 

[Saif al-Arab]

This has to be one of the most moronic threads that I am yet to see on PDF and that says A LOT.

So let me get this right, you are crying and blaming 500 million Arabs for something that Donald Trump, the US president in case you forgot, said during a speech where several head of states spoke? You are not too bright are you?

So it's KSA's job to force/decide what the US president has to say and that Pakistan (like many countries including KSA) has sacrificed a lot of lives in the fight against terrorism? Really? You don't think that your Prime Minister who most likely had all the opportunities in the world to make a speech (if he wished so) like other world leaders did, could not do that himself if he disagreed with Trump's words? Also why this selective nonsense when nobody else received such treatment not even the host KSA?

Also why are you blaming 500 million Arabs for the actions of unelected head of states (in this case monarchs) and dynasties? How dumb are you again?

Also kindly quit talking about wars (Yemen) that you have no clue about whatsoever. KSA/Arab coalition/Yemeni government controls 85% of Yemen's territory (Yemen is 2/3 the size of Pakistan and the one of the most mountainous countries in the world) after Houthis/Saleh having controlled all of Yemen. Not only that the Houthis have lost 40.000 fighters as per their official spokesman while the Arab coalition has lost less than 800 in 26 months of fighting in a very complex country (Yemenis have the most weapons per capita n the world after the US) and in a country that has been unstable for 50 + years. Basically using your logic Pakistan has lost the war against terror and not only that the mighty US (supposed sole world power) lost in Iraq and never won in Afghanistan after spending 16 years (8 times the time spent in Yemen) as Taliban is not defeated and actually controls most of the countryside and regularly attacks the Afghan army and kills US soldiers. I don't think that you understand the concept of unconventional war against terrorist groups and militias. We don't live in 3000 BC where entire villages, towns are killed to the last man, woman and child any longer in case you forgot. There is also the entire media nowadays (much more than 15 years ago) where almost every move is recorded. So whenever KSA/Arab coalition kills civilians (collateral damage just like when the West/Arab states attacks ISIS positions in Iraq and Syria) the entire world media is on a crusade to crucify KSA/Arab coalition while applying double standards. You think it is easy acting in such a environment? The Houthis have held 1000's of people hostage in Taizz alone. People are starving to death but help cannot reach them due to Houthis/Saleh.

As for racism. Don't even go there. The Arab world is one of the most diverse places in the world in terms of ethnicities and races (who have been assimilated), in particular Arabia, and the Arab world is home to a Afro-Arab community that is 10 million + strong. There will always be a few instances of unfortunate behavior and racism but that occurs all over the world (Pakistan included) and to say that this is the norm is also moronic. Not only that ethnic racism in the Arab world is rare and discrimination (when it occurs) is mostly based on social standing. But yes, the Arab world is living hell which is why the largest Pakistani diaspora in the world is located in the GCC while those people could easily stay in their own country or work/live elsewhere. But somehow Arabs are not so bad since they stay and have done that for 50 years.

Joke threads such as those is why almost all Arab users have left and why the few remaining might leave in the future. When that happens you can have a one-sided discussion and a competition of ignorance in relation to the Arab world.

We get it, you want Pakistan to have a bigger standing in the world and for your leaders to act as such but don't blame the Arab people for that not being the case if you believe so. Such crying cannot be taken seriously by anyone. I hope you realize that Afghans tend to blame everything bad on you. Why the double standard? Anyway kindly follow in their footsteps but don't cry when it happens the other way around.

Lastly I saw, in other threads, some Pakistanis crying about who welcomed NS in Riyadh when he landed. They complained that it was the governor of Riyadh. Guess so before commenting on topics, educate/inform yourself, and if you had done so, you would have realized that the governor of Riyadh welcomed ALL head of states at the airport. Did you expect the 82 year old Salman (who is in bad health and has difficulties walking currently for too long) to welcome all 50 + head of states and stand at a airport for hours in a row while all the important summits (that he is the host of and has the responsibility to lead as a host) were to take place without him? Not only that I am yet to see ANY other people complain about such a hilarious thing on social media, forums etc. that commented on those historic summits.
Some people have stones instead of brains I believe. Now such fabricated lies are used here by certain users to spread hatred against Arabs. It's quite frankly a joke. I have seen many similar stuff posted on PDF throughout the years but I stopped commenting on it after some time as it is fruitless.

@EgyptianAmerican

I have not read the entire thread and don't plan to (just the first post) but I can see that you have been active here and I trust that you have done a good job here.

As for air-forces in the GCC, mostly a Western thing (just like in Pakistan initially) and mainly in the small GCC states. KSA not so much.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

@EgyptianAmerican

I have not read the entire thread and don't plan to (just the first post) but I can see that you have been active here and I trust that you have done a good job here.

As for air-forces in the GCC, mostly a Western thing (just like in Pakistan initially) and mainly in the small GCC states. KSA not so much.

Don't even worry about it bro, just a couple of delusional anti-Arabs who thinks he speaks for the entire population of Pakistan with his nonsense.

So you think us arabs betrayed muslims and pakistanis by Trump not mentioning Pakistan in a speech? So a speech mostly between Saudi Arabia and America, Saudi Arabia should have gone running around and praising the many Pakistani's who died due to terrorism?

Have you at any time praised Saudi Arabia and their lost soldiers thanks to terrorists in a meeting between you and China? No? Are you guys traitors to Muslims and backstabbers?


Please get off your bloody high horse, you aren't representative of the Pakistani populace and do not have the right to speak on their behalf.

"Pakistan has enjoyed a close and strong historical relationship with the Middle-Eastern region, particularly Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Syria, Jordan, Yemen and Lebanon. Today there are over One million Pakistanis living and working in Saudi Arabia alone, with a similar number in other Persian Gulf region countries that constitute the Arab League."

"These ties were put to the test when a massive earth-quake hit Pakistan's Northern Areas in 2005 with Saudi Arabia & UAE promptly dispatching critical aid, not only in terms of medicine & essential supplies but massive injunction of billions of dollars for the reconstruction of the region."

" Pakistan also enjoys extensive cultural & defense/military ties with most of the Arab League member states. Pakistan also has extensive trade ties with Arab League states, especially Saudi Arabia and the UAE with Saudi Arabia ranking as Pakistan's second largest trading partner after the United States. With such close association to the Arab League, Pakistan was also invited by Russian President, Vladimir Putin in 2006 to the First Session of the Russia-Islamic World Strategic Vision Group in 2006 in a bid to strengthen Moscow's ties with the big players in the Muslim world."

"Army, Naval and Air Force cadets from many of the Arab League countries routinely enroll in training courses in Pakistan's well-recognized military academies while Pakistan Air Force pilots have flown Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian and Saudi fighter jets in both wars (1967 & 1973 against Israel) & peacetime as part of their 'foreign deployments'.Units from the Pakistan Army, Navy and Air Force also serve allotted time periods in their respective fields in Saudi Arabia and UAE as instructors, maintenance crews, etc. while there are strong indications that a company of Elite Pakistani Commandos, the SSG maintains a permanent unit in Saudi Arabia to safeguard Islam's holiest sites as well as the Saudi Royal Family. Much of the United Arab Emirates Air Force and Army is made up of Pakistani military personnel."

"In 2007 Pakistani President, Pervez Musharraf attended the Arab League summit held in Riyadh even though Pakistan had not yet gained 'Observer Member' status. Pakistan is currently in the stages of finalizing a Free Trade Agreement with the GCC countries, many of whom are also part of the Arab League while talks continue to grant Pakistan the 'Observer' status in the coming months. The country also has a long history of being an ardent supporter of several Arab causes, including Palestine, Iraq, Somalian crisis, etc."

"There are over hundreds and thousands of Pakistanis in the Middle East, and many Arabs in Pakistan as well as Pakistani people who have historical Arabic origins."

The majority of Pakistanis have disagreed with him so don't worry.

 

[Zibago]

This has to be one of the most moronic threads that I am yet to see on PDF and that says A LOT.

So let me get this right, you are crying and blaming 500 million Arabs for something that Donald Trump, the US president in case you forgot, said during a speech where several head of states spoke? You are not too bright are you?

So it's KSA's job to force/decide what the US president has to say and that Pakistan (like many countries including KSA) has sacrificed a lot of lives in the fight against terrorism? Really? You don't think that your Prime Minister who most likely had all the opportunities in the world to make a speech (if he wished so) like other world leaders did, could not do that himself if he disagreed with Trump's words? Also why this selective nonsense when nobody else received such treatment not even the host KSA?

Also why are you blaming 500 million Arabs for the actions of unelected head of states (in this case monarchs) and dynasties? How dumb are you again?

Also kindly quit talking about wars (Yemen) that you have no clue about whatsoever. KSA/Arab coalition/Yemeni government controls 85% of Yemen's territory (Yemen is 2/3 the size of Pakistan and the one of the most mountainous countries in the world) after Houthis/Saleh having controlled all of Yemen. Not only that the Houthis have lost 40.000 fighters as per their official spokesman while the Arab coalition has lost less than 800 in 26 months of fighting in a very complex country (Yemenis have the most weapons per capita n the world after the US) and in a country that has been unstable for 50 + years. Basically using your logic Pakistan has lost the war against terror and not only that the mighty US (supposed sole world power) lost in Iraq and never won in Afghanistan after spending 16 years (8 times the time spent in Yemen) as Taliban is not defeated and actually controls most of the countryside and regularly attacks the Afghan army and kills US soldiers. I don't think that you understand the concept of unconventional war against terrorist groups and militias. We don't live in 3000 BC where entire villages, towns are killed to the last man, woman and child any longer in case you forgot. There is also the entire media nowadays (much more than 15 years ago) where almost every move is recorded. So whenever KSA/Arab coalition kills civilians (collateral damage just like when the West/Arab states attacks ISIS positions in Iraq and Syria) the entire world media is on a crusade to crucify KSA/Arab coalition while applying double standards. You think it is easy acting in such a environment? The Houthis have held 1000's of people hostage in Taizz alone. People are starving to death but help cannot reach them due to Houthis/Saleh.

As for racism. Don't even go there. The Arab world is one of the most diverse places in the world in terms of ethnicities and races (who have been assimilated), in particular Arabia, and the Arab world is home to a Afro-Arab community that is 10 million + strong. There will always be a few instances of unfortunate behavior and racism but that occurs all over the world (Pakistan included) and to say that this is the norm is also moronic. Not only that ethnic racism in the Arab world is rare and discrimination (when it occurs) is mostly based on social standing. But yes, the Arab world is living hell which is why the largest Pakistani diaspora in the world is located in the GCC while those people could easily stay in their own country or work/live elsewhere. But somehow Arabs are not so bad since they stay and have done that for 50 years.

Joke threads such as those is why almost all Arab users have left and why the few remaining might leave in the future. When that happens you can have a one-sided discussion and a competition of ignorance in relation to the Arab world.

We get it, you want Pakistan to have a bigger standing in the world and for your leaders to act as such but don't blame the Arab people for that not being the case if you believe so. Such crying cannot be taken seriously by anyone. I hope you realize that Afghans tend to blame everything bad on you. Why the double standard? Anyway kindly follow in their footsteps but don't cry when it happens the other way around.

Lastly I saw, in other threads, some Pakistanis crying about who welcomed NS in Riyadh when he landed. They complained that it was the governor of Riyadh. Guess so before commenting on topics, educate/inform yourself, and if you had done so, you would have realized that the governor of Riyadh welcomed ALL head of states at the airport. Did you expect the 82 year old Salman (who is in bad health and has difficulties walking currently for too long) to welcome all 50 + head of states and stand at a airport for hours in a row while all the important summits (that he is the guest of) were to take place without him? Some people have stones instead of brains I believe. Not such fabricated lies are used here by certain users to spread hatred against Arabs. It's quite frankly a joke.

@EgyptianAmerican

I have not read the entire thread and don't plan to (just the first post) but I can see that you have been active here and I trust that you have done a good job here.

As for air-forces in the GCC, mostly a Western thing (just like in Pakistan initially) and mainly in the small GCC states. KSA not so much.

People have more issues with Pakistani leadership than what Saudis did troll threads are part and parcel of pdf you enjoy them

Pakistanis dont hate Arabs that just silly what they really are talking about is bad policy by their own govt


I am not a fan of Yemen policy of Saudia and Iran but diplomatically we should continue our defensive pro Saudi stance

On the summit i well i am happy it happened it exposed Trump to the world

I dont normally jump in the arab threads but what was real reason behind them leaving?

I see less arabs and iranians now than i did in the past

Don't even worry about it bro, just a couple of delusional anti-Arabs who thinks he speaks for the entire population of Pakistan with his nonsense.




The majority of Pakistanis have disagreed with him so don't worry.

We dont hate Arabs we view them as economic partners if you understand the political tense situation in Pakistan you will understand why there are some members who view arabs negatively they are taking out their anti govt frustration on others

 

[HAIDER]

Pakistan already surrounded with enemies , now after King Salman speech create a new troubles for Pakistan. Well.... Lesson to learn , everyone protect its own interest , but Pakistan brought others trouble at home. That's why lots of respected member of pdf admire Indian policy, which cashing out both cows without taking anyone side in regional disputes.

 

[Zibago]

Also Indian and Pakistani media makes situation worse every move istranslated as for or against Pakistan

Pakistan already surrounded with enemies , now after King Salman speech create a new troubles for Pakistan. Well.... Lesson to learn , everyone protect its own interest , but Pakistan brought others trouble at home. That's why lots of respected member of pdf admire Indian policy, which cashing out both cows without taking anyone side in regional disputes.

I view it differently its fault of Sharif for what happened not Saudis his priorities were a new letter why did he go there with his lawyer?
Saudis have been fairly reliable partners of Pakistan i would say and still are

 

[HAIDER]

Also Indian and Pakistani media makes situation worse every move istranslated as for or against Pakistan


I view it differently its fault of Sharif for what happened not Saudis his priorities were a new letter why did he go there with his lawyer?
Saudis have been fairly reliable partners of Pakistan i would say and still are

Yes they have good relations, but we already have troubled relation with our neighbors. Pakistan can not afford more enemies when project like CPEC in progress.

 

[Zibago]

Yes they have good relations, but we already have troubled relation with our neighbors. Pakistan can not afford more enemies when project like CPEC in progress.

no new enemy is being made

 

[HAIDER]

no new enemy is being made

lol yeah may be...

 

[Arsalan 345]

I think Saudis only wanted raheel shariff.now he accepts the job and he is having no control over Saudi ministers. Saudis just wanted to involve Pakistan so that it can attack Iran using soldiers of other countries as a cover.they humiliated nawaz shariff and trump humiliated Pakistan by telling the world that India is a victim.I think raheel shariff should quit this job because ksa have the backing of America and who knows! Looks like they are planning for a war against Iran.ksa is only using Pakistan and Pakistan is allowing itself to malign it's image further.

 

[Canuck786]

Respect is earned never given.

When one has no respect at home...how can one get respect abroad.

Make Pak a 3 Trillion economy and see how everyone suddenly loves Pak.

Yes, I know...corruption...then kill the corruption.

In a way all such incidents are good for Pak... Pak peoples need to wake up and care for their own country First.

Perhaps the Universe is helping out Pak with such incidents to take charge of their Destiny.

The best reply in this thread. Thanks a lot!

 

[Zibago]

I think Saudis only wanted raheel shariff.now he accepts the job and he is having no control over Saudi ministers. Saudis just wanted to involve Pakistan so that it can attack Iran using soldiers of other countries as a cover.they humiliated nawaz shariff and trump humiliated Pakistan by telling the world that India is a victim.I think raheel shariff should quit this job because ksa have the backing of America and who knows! Looks like they are planning for a war against Iran.ksa is only using Pakistan and Pakistan is allowing itself to malign it's image further.

Trump was anti Pakistan to begin with and Nawaz humiliated himself by going in with his lawyer what signal was he sending by this gesture?

 

[Arsalan 345]

Trump was anti Pakistan to begin with and Nawaz humiliated himself by going in with his lawyer what signal was he sending by this gesture?

I don't know but respect must be given.nawaz shariff is our prime minister.he was simply ignored by Saudi officials.they did it deliberately. Trumps speech was focused on India and not on Pakistan and raheel shariff was listening all this.one thing is clear.ksa is planning for a war against Iran and america will provide them weapons and Saudis will give these weapons to soldiers of other countries. Ksa is playing a game here.