Directed Energy Weapons: Pakistan

[Army research]

I am one of them.

I mean you guys are what make the back Bone of Apple Google's Microsoft's coding teams , if only are defence industry used you guys

 

[SQ8]

hopefully not a sarcastic smile.

I took it more like a “we gave up” smile.
There was an innovative spur that we had with some bright and motivated individuals in the 90’s. All lost to the pomeranian loving mediocre generals reign.

 

[帅的一匹]

this one has 500KM range, will be installed on TYpe 55B in the future.

if you wanna hold it, you need platform as large as type55 DDG. if Pakistan is intereted, we can working with you in relevant field.

 

[Shabi1]

this one has 500KM range, will be installed on TYpe 55B in the future.
View attachment 484271

if you wanna hold it, you need platform as large as type55 DDG. if Pakistan is intereted, we can working with you in relevant field.

Great achievement from our Chinese friends. A smaller version which could shoot projectiles to intercept airborne threats would be more suited for Pakistan. And I think such a version will be eventually built.

 

[Armchair]

Remember "they" also gave up on towed sonar arrays, and now that is a reality.

Some of the people in charge are probably incompetent or don't take their jobs seriously.

DEW laser is operational in multiple armies. And you "gave up"?!

DEW actually means two things - Destructive Electronic Warfare and Direct Energy Weapon. Incidentally a laser can be both.

For instance, a powerful laser could shoot down a drone from 5 km away. A different laser could target inbound enemy fighter aircraft, decreasing the effectiveness of their sensors such as their radars and MAWS.

What is needed is to train a cadre of scientists and engineers and put them to work, not under semi-retired military personnel, but under a technocratic setup similar to the nuclear program.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Remember "they" also gave up on towed sonar arrays, and now that is a reality.

Some of the people in charge are probably incompetent or don't take their jobs seriously.

DEW laser is operational in multiple armies. And you "gave up"?!

DEW actually means two things - Destructive Electronic Warfare and Direct Energy Weapon. Incidentally a laser can be both.

For instance, a powerful laser could shoot down a drone from 5 km away. A different laser could target inbound enemy fighter aircraft, decreasing the effectiveness of their sensors such as their radars and MAWS.

What is needed is to train a cadre of scientists and engineers and put them to work, not under semi-retired military personnel, but under a technocratic setup similar to the nuclear program.

I am sure DEW Laser will be looked up and taken up as a task by decision makers.

 

[SQ8]

I am sure DEW Laser will be looked up and taken up as a task by decision makers.

I repeatedly use this personal example to highlight the mentality still prevalent.

While working on the PRC-9661 I had some office inhabitants from HiT and NDC working on the installation for AK and T-80. Looking at the structure for the system I asked if the electronics were going to have faraday cages or similar to protect against emp since the tank was supposed to be ok for employment in NBC environment..
Their bewildered looks regarding the term Faraday cage made me ask if they considered the frying of electronics due to a strong emp.
Again, bewildered looks but then a ratired afsar whose role I never understood stepped in with “we don’t do things unless India has done them as well”.

So unless India fields DEWS, we can safely say as we bobble our heads.. nothing is happening.

 

[Armchair]

I am sure DEW Laser will be looked up and taken up as a task by decision makers.

Thank you Sir, for the reply.

I am very interested in laser as a long-range weapon to dazzle enemy air combat aircraft. The Chinese have been dazzling American satellites for almost 2 decades now.

Now, if one could build a meaningful mobile laser that is the right frequency and power to target enemy aircraft at 100 km ranges, not to destroy them but to degrade / confuse / distract their aircraft, it could be most meaningful.

Let us imagine that there are 20 ingressing Indian aircraft. 8 Rafales and 12 MKI. They are flying at high altitude and there additionally are 4x flying low altitude. PAF has to scramble a number of aircraft and these may be at a disadvantage both in terms of altitude and aerodynamic performance in a high altitude - high speed profile.

If, as soon as the enemy enters Pakistani territory, they get targeted by LRAAMs and laser weapons, both of which are on mobile platforms, they will:

1. Be distracted, having to deal with multiple new threat quadrants
2. Their EW and avionics may be degraded
3. They will need to take some evasive maneuver, degrading their posture and kinetic energy.

Meanwhile, of the low altitude ingressing aircraft, 2x get shot down by LOMADs and JF-17s / F-7PGs are vectored in to intercept them.

The high altitude 20x are faced with 4x F-16s and 12x JF-17s. Given the distraction from the LRAAMs and lasers, and vectored by AWACS aircraft, the JF-17s and F-16s are able to shoot down a few while the rest disengage.

The result is that, even with an overall qualitative and quantitative advantage, IAF is (in this hypothetical setup), unable to gain the upper hand, due to localized advantages of the PAF air defense network.

I repeatedly use this personal example to highlight the mentality still prevalent.

While working on the PRC-9661 I had some office inhabitants from HiT and NDC working on the installation for AK and T-80. Looking at the structure for the system I asked if the electronics were going to have faraday cages or similar to protect against emp since the tank was supposed to be ok for employment in NBC environment..
Their bewildered looks regarding the term Faraday cage made me ask if they considered the frying of electronics due to a strong emp.
Again, bewildered looks but then a ratired afsar whose role I never understood stepped in with “we don’t do things unless India has done them as well”.

So unless India fields DEWS, we can safely say as we bobble our heads.. nothing is happening.

Sometimes I wonder why more people don't wake up one day, take a gun to work and start shooting.

 

[Armchair]

Another place that a laser could be useful would be in the naval role. It would provide a good solution to a saturation attack by AShMs as the rapidity with which it can react. Again, a soft kill may be enough to get the missile to miss the ship.

 

[CriticalThought]

An important thing to remember about laser. Just as there are RAM coatings available for stealth against radar, there are coatings available against laser detection. They work by causing total internal reflection at the coating/object boundary in such a way, that it cancels against the reflection from the coating/air boundary.

Now imagine such a coating to protect against DEW. Instead of destroying the target, your incident energy will be simply cancelled.

Lesson learnt: we should be researching anti-reflection coatings for lasers, and there are no silver bullets.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

An important thing to remember about laser. Just as there are RAM coatings available for stealth against radar, there are coatings available against laser detection. They work by causing total internal reflection at the coating/object boundary in such a way, that it cancels against the reflection from the coating/air boundary.

Now imagine such a coating to protect against DEW. Instead of destroying the target, your incident energy will be simply cancelled.

Lesson learnt: we should be researching anti-reflection coatings for lasers, and there are no silver bullets.

These coatings are optimized for certain frequencies. All energy cannot be reflective. Any coating when subjected to energy will ablate and rest will be a nice big hole.

 

[CriticalThought]

These coatings are optimized for certain frequencies. All energy cannot be reflective. Any coating when subjected to energy will ablate and rest will be a nice big hole.

Lasing systems are also limited in what frequencies they can produce.

Given incident energy, there is a proportion that will reflect, and a proportion that will be absorbed. If the amount absorbed is tiny, then it would be ineffective.

But my main point is not to favour coatings vs. lasers. My point is that we need to independently research the efficacy of both, and select what works. This is the very boundaries of human knowledge, and we shouldn't expect details of next generation systems to be available on the internet. But I want to ensure we look at both sides of the equation: lasers AND coatings that can cancel them.

 

[Deltaviper]

There are areas where research foundation needs to be laid. DEWs are not just about lasers, it is the very high power and very short impulse requirements which are challenging. We're also lagging behind in basics optics manufacturing. Everything from an Optics table, to mounts to simple lenses has to be imported. We're doing rudimentary research at our universities, barring certain very niche areas obviously. Lastly, we need to focus on R&D into adaptive optics (absolutely necessary for any decent ranged system) in our local universities and then create a small to medium optics manufacturing base where such systems can be developed using trained engineers and scientists. Sadly the reality is far from it.

Lasing systems are also limited in what frequencies they can produce.

Given incident energy, there is a proportion that will reflect, and a proportion that will be absorbed. If the amount absorbed is tiny, then it would be ineffective.

But my main point is not to favour coatings vs. lasers. My point is that we need to independently research the efficacy of both, and select what works. This is the very boundaries of human knowledge, and we shouldn't expect details of next generation systems to be available on the internet. But I want to ensure we look at both sides of the equation: lasers AND coatings that can cancel them.

using current technology, I'm very much sure a well aimed, high energy, short pulsed laser (ie. one with good target tracking and focusing ability) will destroy ANY target. Once locked on and lased by an opponent, the coatings you wish to produce (even if such coatings were to be available) could, in theory, delay the inevitable a little but won't stop it.

 

[CriticalThought]

There are areas where research foundation needs to be laid. DEWs are not just about lasers, it is the very high power and very short impulse requirements which are challenging. We're also lagging behind in basics optics manufacturing. Everything from an Optics table, to mounts to simple lenses has to be imported. We're doing rudimentary research at our universities, barring certain very niche areas obviously. Lastly, we need to focus on R&D into adaptive optics (absolutely necessary for any decent ranged system) in our local universities and then create a small to medium optics manufacturing base where such systems can be developed using trained engineers and scientists. Sadly the reality is far from it.


using current technology, I'm very much sure a well aimed, high energy, short pulsed laser (ie. one with good target tracking and focusing ability) will destroy ANY target. Once locked on and lased by an opponent, the coatings you wish to produce (even if such coatings were to be available) could, in theory, delay the inevitable a little but won't stop it.

It's not just my wish list, such coatings actually exist to deter laser targeting. The only unknown is their efficacy against a high powered energy weapon. And since they work on passive cancellation, they will be effective no matter how much time elapses.

High powered lasers are also subject to attenuation in the atmosphere, especially in severe weather.

One area where they could work very well is space - if the power problem could be solved.

 

[Army research]

It's sad the slave mentality of our nation, I envy the Turks for their nationalism and mustafa kemal, Pakistan has much more potential than them, much more resources more man power nukes technological help of China yet we still
It is really sad,
Nationalism is needed in this nation