Did we shoot our own passenger plane?

[TheImmortal]

They's in damage control mode now, These incompetent buffoons.

I been saying it all along. But members here don’t want to hear the truth.

IRGC brags that all ships in PG and Indian Ocean are under 24/7 surveillance so that means they would know if a destroyer fired cruise missiles? So where did the salvo come from? Air launched? Doesn’t make sense one bit.

Why was a TOR-M1 Stationed near the airport? If US was going to attack they would not fire cruise missiles near an active civilian airport in order to not cause a catastrophic incident (cruise missile hitting airliner on way to target). They would also issue a NOTAM to all foreign airliners to avoid Iranian airspace or risk their lives.

What was the crew defending in Parand that was so “important”? TOR-M1s are usually stationed near nuclear sites where no civilian flights or even military is generally allowed. Yet this system was placed near Tehran. A kill sphere system in a civilian metropolis. Amateur move.

Conclusion: The “cruise missile” story is a LIE concocted by IRGC to justify why their defense system fired on jetliner. Since 2007 there have been at least 4 incidents of air defense systems firing on jet liners in Iran when NOT on alert.

 

[VEVAK]

Did you read Gen Abdollahi's comments? He says the alert level had been put back to normal but that unit had not received it? Is that possible? I also don't understand his logic about being able to see the threat before grounding the civilian planes. I'm sure there are many cases when you know the attack is coming but you can't necessarily see it.

https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/10...-سقوط-هواپیمای-اوکراینی-در-حال-بررسی-است-برای


See my comment above, he seems to be the guy who refused to ground civilian planes or at least is defending the position.

It amazes me that someone could actually come on Iranian TV and defend such an idiotic position in a way that if it was to happen again they would make the same insanely idiotic choices and still refrain from clearing the Air Space of all civilian traffic... one can only hope that if you hit your head against the rock you would learn from that mistake and refrain from repeating it but instead this guy comes on Iranian TV to justify it to a point that we can all now look forward to banging our heads even harder on that very same rock next time....

I totally agree with you and if this guy is defending this absurd position on Iranian TV then at the very least he needs to be investigated.... It's beyond absurd!

 

[Arminkh]

It amazes me that someone could actually come on Iranian TV and defend such an idiotic position in a way that if it was to happen again they would make the same insanely idiotic choices and still refrain from clearing the Air Space of all civilian traffic... one can only hope that if you hit your head against the rock you would learn from that mistake and refrain from repeating it but instead this guy comes on Iranian TV to justify it to a point that we can all now look forward to banging our heads even harder on that very same rock next time....

I totally agree with you and if this guy is defending this absurd position on Iranian TV then at the very least he needs to be investigated.... It's beyond absurd!

I'm speechless too. The whole purpose of protocols is to minimize human errors in stressful situations like this. Shrugging off lack of protocol sufficiency and blame it on personal error is putting your head in the sand.

 

[TheImmortal]

It amazes me that someone could actually come on Iranian TV and defend such an idiotic position in a way that if it was to happen again they would make the same insanely idiotic choices and still refrain from clearing the Air Space of all civilian traffic... one can only hope that if you hit your head against the rock you would learn from that mistake and refrain from repeating it but instead this guy comes on Iranian TV to justify it to a point that we can all now look forward to banging our heads even harder on that very same rock next time....

I totally agree with you and if this guy is defending this absurd position on Iranian TV then at the very least he needs to be investigated.... It's beyond absurd!

I'm speechless too. The whole purpose of protocols is to minimize human errors in stressful situations like this. Shrugging off lack of protocol sufficiency and blame it on personal error is putting your head in the sand.

I told this forum this days ago, but I was unrightly attacked by fanboys and propagandists.

I said time will show that I am right. IRGC leadership is filled with gross incompetence who skirt risk management. And if you attack it verbally it will fiercely defend itself and it’s members.

 

[Cthulhu]

https://www.aparat.com/v/nO7F0/سخنرانی_سردار_سلامی_در_مجلس_شورای_اسلامی_|_عملیات_قاسم

Time: 6:50, WFT is he talking about, Exactly?! This incompetent buffoon should resign, They managed to turn a victory into a defeat in less than 6 hours, Now they are trying to defend their incompetency.

 

[Sina-1]

The investigation and the aftermath is a very delicate matter. On one hand, a gross error occurred and must be dealt with in order to eliminate future possible occurrence. On the other hand, the people who might be prosecuted are the ones guarding our skies. this presents a serious risk for our defense.
It is extremely important that the soldiers decision making is not clouded with possible prosecution risk-assessments.
I hope the matter is settled in a logical way.

 

[Navigator]

What was the crew defending in Parand that was so “important”? TOR-M1s are usually stationed near nuclear sites where no civilian flights or even military is generally allowed. Yet this system was placed near Tehran. A kill sphere system in a civilian metropolis. Amateur move.

In reality there in 5-10 km from Parand exists are two well-known important military sites. First - it's missile research center with visible stands for testing missile engines etc.

There even on some images we can see the missile launchers

And in few km from research center there is the second important military facility - one of underground IRGC missile base, on satellite images there visible entrances to underground tunnels, areas for launching missiles, etc.

 

[TruthHurtz]

In reality there in 5-10 km from Parand exists are two well-known important military sites. First - it's missile research center with visible stands for testing missile engines etc.
View attachment 600093
There even on some images we can see the missile launchers
View attachment 600096
And in few km from research center there is the second important military facility - one of underground IRGC missile base, on satellite images there visible entrances to underground tunnels, areas for launching missiles, etc.
View attachment 600095

View attachment 600097

Thankfully some sanity in this thread of emotion.

 

[Sina-1]

Iran should literally send a couple of full oil tankers to every country calling for compensation. If those countries are unable to cash the oil then they are responsible for the compensation not reaching the victims' families.



Trudeau: Iran must pay compensation to families of Iran plane crash victims
https://112.international/politics/...amilies-of-uia-plane-crash-victims-47410.html

 

[Arminkh]

I told this forum this days ago, but I was unrightly attacked by fanboys and propagandists.

I said time will show that I am right. IRGC leadership is filled with gross incompetence who skirt risk management. And if you attack it verbally it will fiercely defend itself and it’s members.

I think it is not fair to blame whole IRGC leadership. Gen Hajizadeh for one said numerous times that the sky should be cleared when we are at highest alert. But there seem to ones that don't agree with that logic.

 

[TruthHurtz]

Iran should literally send a couple of full oil tankers to every country calling for compensation. If those countries are unable to cash the oil then they are responsible for the compensation not reaching the victims' families.



Trudeau: Iran must pay compensation to families of Iran plane crash victims
https://112.international/politics/...amilies-of-uia-plane-crash-victims-47410.html

Exactly what I said. But pay the Ukrainian victims directly to restore trust.

 

[aziqbal]

Iran was doing ok until they shot down their own plane

this whole episode back fired on Iran

why and how the civilian aviation did not communicate with the military is beyond me

more work needs to be done here

Irans attack on the US base also never killed any US soldiers

Iran messed things up here

 

[TruthHurtz]

I think it is not fair to blame whole IRGC leadership. Gen Hajizadeh for one said numerous times that the sky should be cleared when we are at highest alert. But there seem to ones that don't agree with that logic.

Hajizadeh has always been my favourite IRGC commander, he's very charismatic and friendly. His son gave his life in Syria so his own flesh and blood died fighting for what he believes in.

 

[Arminkh]

Hajizadeh has always been my favourite IRGC commander, he's very charismatic and friendly. His son gave his life in Syria so his own flesh and blood died fighting for what he believes in.

Him and head of IRGC navy. They both mean business and have shown they know what they are doing.

 

[TruthHurtz]

Iran was doing ok until they shot down their own plane

this whole episode back fired on Iran

why and how the civilian aviation did not communicate with the military is beyond me

more work needs to be done here

Irans attack on the US base also never killed any US soldiers

Iran messed things up here

Iran's attack wasn't intended to kill any US soldiers. It was intended to degrade US operational capability in the region and as a show of force.

By all means the military operation succeeded, the US didn't retaliate despite explicit warnings it would. The shoot down was tragic and avoidable but many militaries are also guilty of such tragedies (US and Israel). Iran at least admitted fault and apologised within days of the downing. This is an unfortunate learning experience that will help gauge faults and gaps in communication between different branches/departments of the Iranian government and military.

Him and head of IRGC navy. They both mean business and have shown they know what they are doing.

Don't forget Quds force. Soleimani may be gone but there's no reason not to believe Ghaani isn't as capable given that he's been Soleimani's right hand man since they started their careers. Soleimani was very much a people person, cerebral and analytic (like an intelligence officer should be). There's no doubt that he chose the right people otherwise modern Iranian foreign policy wouldn't have been as successful as it has been.