Did the colonizer steal old world tech?

[jamahir]

The Story of Tipu Sultan and His Mysorean Rockets, the World's First War Rockets

One of the most interesting technological episodes in Indian history!

www.thebetterindia.com

This contributed towards space rockets yet there is no rocket in current India - military or space - that is named after Tipu. In fact the Indian establishment enables the Hindutvadis to spread hate against Tipu, a man who was a progressive administrator identifying with the French Revolution, doing things like redistributing lands from upper caste people to the oppressed lower castes. Had he lived into the mid of the next century he would have been the first to introduce Communism in India. Please read this post of mine.

Edit : I will say other than Ashoka and Akbar it is Tipu who was the best ruler in South Asia.

 

[tower9]

I see a lot of chatter about using lots of Eastern tech (I’m sure there was) but for some reason people can’t easily list examples of these tons of tech.

You’d think it would be on the tips of people’s tongues since they are so positive about this being the roots of Europeans achievements…

Guns
Cannons
Compasses
Watertight compartments in ships
Moveable sails
Algebra

These are just some of the inventions from Asia that Europe used to conquer the new world

 

[VCheng]

i am wondering before the brits came to colonize the world, if there was old world tech that is hidden from history books,

Wakanda. That is where it all came from. Obviously.

 

[MastanKhan]

i am wondering before the brits came to colonize the world, if there was old world tech that is hidden from history books,
if you look on youtube and type in old world technology somewhere around 1800 they had technology way back then, especially in the new world called america. brit colonizer may have destroyed the tech and brought dark age for the oppressed.

america had orphans brought over on trains and re educated for purpose for serving the elite.

HI,

The technology advancement in europe was due to the 100 year war which resulted in better weapons and advanced fighting techniques.

In the conquest of the sub continent---the europeans destroyed everything technical that was worth anything of substance---which was not much.

Sub continent was far behind in technology that europe had at that time.

Americans to this day have issues with having toilets in relation to the bedrooms in a house---.

An average modern 4 or 5 bdrm house in a housing society may have 2 toilets and showers or maybe 3 in a 5 bdrm house.

 

[Tom-tom]

i am wondering before the brits came to colonize the world, if there was old world tech that is hidden from history books,
if you look on youtube and type in old world technology somewhere around 1800 they had technology way back then, especially in the new world called america. brit colonizer may have destroyed the tech and brought dark age for the oppressed.

america had orphans brought over on trains and re educated for purpose for serving the elite.

I know that Arabs invented the crankshaft before the Brits they may have invent the camshaft or overhead valves

Well they invented the modern one at least that used today. Something convert reciprocating circular movement in into linear motive movement.

 

[Bilal9]

I see a lot of chatter about using lots of Eastern tech (I’m sure there was) but for some reason people can’t easily list examples of these tons of tech.

You’d think it would be on the tips of people’s tongues since they are so positive about this being the roots of Europeans achievements…

I already mentioned Tipu's missile tech used against the British.

Other than a birthplace of ideas and religion, the subcontinent also excelled in several fronts, one of which was metallurgy. Swords were an early product and Damascus steel fighting swords used to be sourced from India even before 1000 AD. There was tech available to prevent rusting of steel, now lost to history - which was used to cast a rustproof large Iron pillar around 300 AD. This was without use of using alloys like SS or surface coating like zinc (galvanizing) and the corrosion proofing was endemic and homogenous to the cast iron.

Iron pillar of Delhi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course South Asia formed city centers pretty early, city planning was as advanced as Babylonian and Egyptian civilizations. The excavated city of Mohenjo Daro in Sindh, Pakistan dating 4500 years ago is witness to the high degree of sophistication in city planning, zoning, plumbing and running water. This was more or less universal across the subcontinent, but in areas where there is much water (like in the East and some areas in the South, especially where rivers and deltas exist), the earlier evidence has corroded and de-composed away. But evidence of earlier structures and cities are continually being discovered and excavated. Man builds, nature un-builds.

Some of the contribution to industrial revolution came from South Asia, specificially Bengal where weaving technology was advanced, as much that it is regarded a proto-industrial revolution. The brits of course brought that tech home to the Isle and improved it further.

Check the history, its quite eye opening.
A lot of the tech came from Ottoman and Safavid which where at their zenith in the 16th and 17th century.

This is evolution in a nutshell. Or rather technological evolution, which is run by the exact same mechanism as biological evolution.

The weaving tech in the East was exploited early on by the British, but when it competed with their own machine made crude products in the start of the Industrial textile revolution, the British took urgent steps to curb the competition by cutting off Bengal weavers' fingertips.

@Wergeland bhai another thing that Bengal was very good at was large sea-going shipbuilding (wooden ones), from time immemorial. In fact several of the large ships that fought in the Battle of Trafalgar were built in Chittagong. Even today, large local steel-frame river ferries capable of carrying 3000 passengers are welded and built on nothing but temporary stilts and brick foundations and ply on regular overnight routes. The local fleet of passenger river ferries (launches, as they are called locally) will easily exceed seven to eight hundred. This is the oldest transport infra we have extant.

A Note on the Shipbuilding in Bengal in the Late Eighteenth Century | Itinerario | Cambridge Core

A Note on the Shipbuilding in Bengal in the Late Eighteenth Century - Volume 19 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

Bengal Industries and the British Industrial Revolution (1757-1857)

This book seeks to enlighten two grey areas of industrial historiography. Although Bengal industries were globally dominant on the eve of the industrial revolution, no detailed literature is available about their later course of development. A series of questions are involved in it. Did those...

books.google.com

Bangladesh even now is washed and crisscrossed by over 400 rivers, small and large. It used to be 700~800 rivers. some of which have silted and dried up. The large ones (in places) are over 7 KM wide, similar to the Hwang Ho in China. Compared to these, most 'rivers' in other places globally can be considered canals.

List of rivers of Bangladesh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tom-tom]

I already mentioned Tipu's missile tech used against the British.

Other than a birthplace of ideas and religion, the subcontinent also excelled in several fronts, one of which was metallurgy. Swords were an early product and Damascus steel fighting swords used to be sourced from India even before 1000 AD. There was tech available to prevent rusting of steel, now lost to history - which was used to cast a rustproof large Iron pillar around 300 AD. This was without use of using alloys like SS or surface coating like zinc (galvanizing) and the corrosion proofing was endemic and homogenous to the cast iron.

Iron pillar of Delhi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course South Asia formed city centers pretty early, city planning was as advanced as Babylonian and Egyptian civilizations. The excavated city of Mohenjo Daro in Sindh, Pakistan dating 4500 years ago is witness to the high degree of sophistication in city planning, zoning, plumbing and running water. This was more or less universal across the subcontinent, but in areas where there is much water (like in the East and some areas in the South, especially where rivers and deltas exist), the earlier evidence has corroded and de-composed away. But evidence of earlier structures and cities are continually being discovered and excavated. Man builds, nature un-builds.

The weaving tech in the East was exploited early on by the British, but when it competed with their own machine made crude products in the start of the Industrial textile revolution, the British took urgent steps to curb the competition by cutting off Bengal weavers' fingertips.

@Wergeland bhai another thing that Bengal was very good at was large sea-going shipbuilding (wooden ones), from time immemorial. In fact several of the large ships that fought in the Battle of Trafalgar were built in Chittagong. Even today, large local steel-frame river ferries capable of carrying 3000 passengers are welded and built on nothing but temporary stilts and brick foundations and ply on regular overnight routes. The local fleet of passenger river ferries (launches, as they are called locally) will easily exceed seven to eight hundred. This is the oldest transport infra we have extant.

A Note on the Shipbuilding in Bengal in the Late Eighteenth Century | Itinerario | Cambridge Core

A Note on the Shipbuilding in Bengal in the Late Eighteenth Century - Volume 19 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

Bengal Industries and the British Industrial Revolution (1757-1857)

This book seeks to enlighten two grey areas of industrial historiography. Although Bengal industries were globally dominant on the eve of the industrial revolution, no detailed literature is available about their later course of development. A series of questions are involved in it. Did those...

books.google.com

Bangladesh even now is washed and crisscrossed by over 400 rivers, small and large. It used to be 700~800 rivers. some of which have silted and dried up. The large ones (in places) are over 7 KM wide, similar to the Hwang Ho in China. Compared to these, most 'rivers' in other places globally can be considered canals.

List of rivers of Bangladesh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't forgot that during proto industrialisation bengal was more advanced than UK. UK learnt alot of thing from bengal. Bengal even showed early signs of industrialisation before the British.


However the British destroyed it as they can't have a brown man more advanced than them

 

[Wergeland]

I see a lot of chatter about using lots of Eastern tech (I’m sure there was) but for some reason people can’t easily list examples of these tons of tech.

You’d think it would be on the tips of people’s tongues since they are so positive about this being the roots of Europeans achievements…

There is nothing wrong in telling that Europe built its technological lead in the pre-modern age by accumulating tenchological know-how from all over the world and building on it. The windmill forexample was invented in medieval Baghdad. This is how all civillizations advances; by learning and integrating tech from other civillizations.

This simple fact dosent diminish the hard work of geniuses of Europe and America. Because it takes a clever mind to take something existing and improve it significantly like the west did step by step for several centruries. And when the technological advancement reached a point where industrial revolution could take place, the Cat was out of the box, forever. The West played a extraordinary role in that regard.

European ethics and philosophy in many ways is built on works of muslim scholars from the medieval. People like Thomas Aquinas, Decartes and countless other icons, learned from philosophical discussions in the muslim world and made their own thesis and commentary. Just like muslim scholar accumulated Greek, Egyptian, Levatine and Indian works and made their own commentary and improvements.

The problem is that no civillization really like to give the much deserved credit to the works of men and women from other civillizations. Much of it has to do with bias, poilitics and building of a identity. For medieval Europe, Islamic world although it was high civilization, was always potrayed as «bad, immoral and heretic». Islam was the other, therefore the people behind the ideas and inventions of Muslim world was almost never given credit.

Nowdays people like Newton, Edison, Maxwell etc. is credited for their contribution, regardless of academic institution one choose to study in, anywhere in the world, as it should be.

 

[Tom-tom]

There is nothing wrong in telling that Europe built its technological lead in the pre-modern age by accumulating tenchological know-how from all over the world and building on it. The windmill forexample was invented in medieval Baghdad. This is how all civillizations advances; by learning and integrating tech from other civillizations.

This simple fact dosent diminish the hard work of geniuses of Europe and America. Because it takes a clever mind to take something existing and improve it significantly like the west did step by step for several centruries. And when the technological advancement reached a point where industrial revolution could take place, the Cat was out of the box, forever. The West played a extraordinary role in that regard.

European ethics and philosophy in many ways is built on works of muslim scholars from the medieval. People like Thomas Aquinas, Decartes and countless other icons, learned from philosophical discussions in the muslim world and made their own thesis and commentary. Just like muslim scholar accumulated Greek, Egyptian, Levatine and Indian works and made their own commentary and improvements.

The problem is that no civillization really like to give the much deserved credit to the works of men and women from other civillizations. Much of it has to do with bias, poilitics and building of a identity. For medieval Europe, Islamic world although it was high civilization, was always potrayed as «bad, immoral and heretic». Islam was the other, therefore the people behind the ideas and inventions of Muslim world was almost never given credit.

Nowdays people like Newton, Edison, Maxwell etc. is credited for their contribution, regardless of academic institution one choose to study in, anywhere in the world, as it should be.

It's true that other civilisations learn from others and build on it and don't give credit to the former.


How ever your words leave indirectly discomforted. As the west started to dominate the more advanced and richer Asia before industrialisation. Exploiting and abusing asia .Once industrialisation sprung into action - the exploitation abusing Asia went to another level.


Previously when civilisation invade others like the Islamic empire or roman, they seek to only colonise but to assimilate the hosts and make for them and the host.


How ever during colonialism the west was trying to get every last ounze of blood out Asia.


Also it was the west that has spun a racial superiority complex like no other, the level racism that yt west has created is at such a level that has never been witnessed on this earth.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

There is nothing wrong in telling that Europe built its technological lead in the pre-modern age by accumulating tenchological know-how from all over the world and building on it. The windmill forexample was invented in medieval Baghdad. This is how all civillizations advances; by learning and integrating tech from other civillizations.

This simple fact dosent diminish the hard work of geniuses of Europe and America. Because it takes a clever mind to take something existing and improve it significantly like the west did step by step for several centruries. And when the technological advancement reached a point where industrial revolution could take place, the Cat was out of the box, forever. The West played a extraordinary role in that regard.

European ethics and philosophy in many ways is built on works of muslim scholars from the medieval. People like Thomas Aquinas, Decartes and countless other icons, learned from philosophical discussions in the muslim world and made their own thesis and commentary. Just like muslim scholar accumulated Greek, Egyptian, Levatine and Indian works and made their own commentary and improvements.

The problem is that no civillization really like to give the much deserved credit to the works of men and women from other civillizations. Much of it has to do with bias, poilitics and building of a identity. For medieval Europe, Islamic world although it was high civilization, was always potrayed as «bad, immoral and heretic». Islam was the other, therefore the people behind the ideas and inventions of Muslim world was almost never given credit.

Nowdays people like Newton, Edison, Maxwell etc. is credited for their contribution, regardless of academic institution one choose to study in, anywhere in the world, as it should be.

Bravo for mentioning the windmill. At least you have mentioned a specific item where we can easily see how this led to other progressions. Certainly the windmill played a big part in machine development in areas where rivers/streams were not flowing strong enough for water power.

It doesn’t take much of a stretch of the imagination to see how leveraging wind power likely was used for saw mills and other machines that needed brute force power.

Giving an example is far more useful/credible than some cryptic blanket statement about mysterious Asian tech.

 

[Tom-tom]

Bravo for mentioning the windmill. At least you have mentioned a specific item where we can easily see how this led to other progressions. Certainly the windmill played a big part in machine development in areas where rivers/streams were not flowing strong enough for water power.

It doesn’t take much of a stretch of the imagination to see how leveraging wind power likely was used for saw mills and other machines that needed brute force power.

Giving an example is far more useful/credible than some cryptic blanket statement about mysterious Asian tech.

Bravo for mentioning the windmill. At least you have mentioned a specific item where we can easily see how this led to other progressions. Certainly the windmill played a big part in machine development in areas where rivers/streams were not flowing strong enough for water power.

It doesn’t take much of a stretch of the imagination to see how leveraging wind power likely was used for saw mills and other machines that needed brute force power.

Giving an example is far more useful/credible than some cryptic blanket statement about mysterious Asian tech.

Read this

Ismail al-Jazari - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Crankshaft were around in the 5th bce.


This Arab guy re engineered it to turn reciprocating movement in to linear movement. His crankshaft is used even In this days and age. He invented 50 other mechanisms

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Read this

Ismail al-Jazari - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Crankshaft were around in the 5th bce.


This Arab guy re engineered it to turn reciprocating movement in to linear movement. His crankshaft is used even In this days and age. He invented 50 other mechanisms

Again Bravo for the crankshaft another example of tech which has been highly leveraged even until this day