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Did decline of major indian empires played major factor in Islamic invasion and why?

I didn't say anything to suggest this.
Chandragupta, during his early reign was mostly busy quelling the uprisings in his own kingdoms as not many nobles were happy with him becoming an emperor, afterall he was a nobody, just someone Chanakya saw playing with friends on afternoon. After quelling all the uprisings, conquests he undertook were to the west, none to the south to take the satraps left by Alexander, all the way to Indus, he infact defeated Seleucus and married his daughter and maintained diplomatic relations with him. Funny thing, Seleucus was actually thinking about invading the new mauryan kingdom. By the time Chandragupta descended from throne, he had already captured parts of Afghanistan and Balochistan.
It was his son Bindusara under whose reign, mauryan empire extended south to include all of peninsular India except for tamilian states ruled by cholas, pandyas and cheras as they were friendly to Mauryans. Thus throughout history, tamilians have remained independent. Just the kalinga was left.
Again Bindusara maintained diplomatic relations with the hellenic kingdoms. (See how large empires established diplomatic relations)
Ashoka captured Kalinga which was the only kingdom left. During his earlier life he was busy with crushing revolts, including twice in taxila.
After him, Mauryan empire gradually declined over next 50 years.

There is no source which states that bindusara captured any territories, so it is assumed that they fell into mauryan empire during chandragupta's period, as the inscription states that mysore was being ruled by Nanda along with the Nanda mention in sangham poem, its pretty clear that Nandas were in the south already and chandragupta maurya only inherited the empire left behind by the nandas and added the western lands into it and probably extended nanda terriotory to tamil nadu. Kalinga was already part of Nanda territory so maybe what Ashoka did was finish the rebellion or something.

regards

regards
 
Tribals were on the outskirts, who Alexander attacked and yet Porus gave him a freaking tough fight that he returned his kingdom to him, where had a previous record of razing cities to the ground and massacring the inhabitants after defeating them in battle.
Porus was a small time king who wouldn't have found any mention in history had it not been for his fight with Alexander. And the Macedonian turned back because across the river the Nanda empire was waiting for him.
You may wanna read it properly, because as much as you hate it, up until 1974, all history is shared between Pakistan and India.
It's not me who is in denial over subcontinental Mughal heritage.
 
no where i stated that the british were a south asian empire, im not sure how you got that idea, i was merely replying to your assertion that empires in india were based on ''weak alliances'' etc, i gave you first hand kmowledge of how the british empire was made out of no less than forty princely states who they had to keep happy in order to keep ruling, a few unhappy princes almost kicked them out of india and the british efforts to control rebellion itself was backed by other princely states like hyderabad, mysore etc. So one always needed ''alliances'' in indian geopolitical situation to rule it, rest of the indian empires were no exception to this rule.

regards

The British were a foreign power, that established a base in Bengal before they started conquering and forging alliances.
 
Rashtrakutas, gurajara pratihara, pala empires were major players in the indian history shortly before the ghaurid invasion. But we see that during ghaurid invasions most of these empires had already vanished and indian subcontinent was being ruled by little kingdoms etc.

Arab chronicles before indian invasion reference Rashtrakutas as one of the biggest powers alog with byzantine, china and arabs, but we see that during the ghaurid invasion the entire geopolitical situation in india had crumbled into petty kingdoms. Is this fact or something whic needs to be proven? and if its a fact then what caused the decline of these major indian empires all of a sudden?

regards

This happens all the time. Nations rise and fall.

As for your question, yes by the time India was attacked, there wasn't any large empires that could provide a credible defense.

Raja Dahir and Prithviraj Chauhan did put up a brave fight. If only they fought for Islam instead of against it.

Gurjars defeated many invasions. Samrat mihir Bhola had huge armies at all fronts.

That depends on how you define the term "Gujjar". Groups like the Pratiharas, Chauhans, Tomars, etc are present among Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars among others too.

It is Gengis khan which made it possible for Islamic and British rulers to easily conquer Indian regions.

What? No, Muslims were occupying India long before him.

You can check the civilizations all around the globe the civilizations from Roman, Greek, Persian, Egyptian are all wiped out

Again, no lol. The West is the heir to the Roman/Greek tradition, and Persian culture remains strong within Iran.

Aryan invasion is a myth propagated by British.

Not really, it's a proven fact.

I don't understand the fright you people have towards it, it means nothing. The Vedic people are still your ancestors, they just happened to come from outside of India.

You are a Muslim today most probably because of that Jazya itself. Because your ancestors could not handle added pressure of a tax and converted.

Muslims were taxed too lol.

Almost all of these conversion theories are pathetic. The majority of people who converted were:

1. Low caste Hindus seeking a way out
2. Aristocrats who wanted to maintain their positions of power
3. People who just wanted to get with the times and join the new trendy religion
 
This happens all the time. Nations rise and fall.



Raja Dahir and Prithviraj Chauhan did put up a brave fight. If only they fought for Islam instead of against it.



That depends on how you define the term "Gujjar". Groups like the Pratiharas, Chauhans, Tomars, etc are present among Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars among others too.



What? No, Muslims were occupying India long before him.



Again, no lol. The West is the heir to the Roman/Greek tradition, and Persian culture remains strong within Iran.



Not really, it's a proven fact.

I don't understand the fright you people have towards it, it means nothing. The Vedic people are still your ancestors, they just happened to come from outside of India.



Muslims were taxed too lol.

Almost all of these conversion theories are pathetic. The majority of people who converted were:

1. Low caste Hindus seeking a way out
2. Aristocrats who wanted to maintain their positions of power
3. People who just wanted to get with the times and join the new trendy religion
No point explaining things logically on such threads. The hinduphilia is gushing ad nauseam. The whole of India's history is slowly being rewritten as exclusively Hindu.
 
Tribals were on the outskirts, who Alexander attacked and yet Porus gave him a freaking tough fight that he returned his kingdom to him, where had a previous record of razing cities to the ground and massacring the inhabitants after defeating them in battle.
Porus was a small time king who wouldn't have found any mention in history had it not been for his fight with Alexander. And the Macedonian turned back because across the river the Nanda empire was waiting for him.
You may wanna read it properly, because as much as you hate it, up until 1974, all history is shared between Pakistan and India.

I tend to agree with this ambiguous interpretation of the Battle of Hydaspes. It is not at all certain that Alexander won an outright and crushing victory, in contrast to his previous three set-piece battles. His behaviour towards the king the Greeks called Porus is also a 'tell'; he was never merciful to an enemy, and for him to have restored Porus to his kingdom, indeed, to add territories to it and to treat him as a trusted ally is quite exceptional.

We may take a look at the psychological impact of the Nandas along with subsequent posts on the subject.

I suspect that porus's territory was part of Nanda empire itself, because

a. why would the Nandas mobilize for war with alexander when their territory was not being attacked?
b. Nanda territories on their borders were known to be semi autonomous, with centralization in its core territories like magadh etc

the greek records do indicate that their rivals lay on the other side of the river, but it may also be based on core territory idea and not borderlands.

But this estimation needs references from greek records as well to verify it.

regards

Going backwards, sources on Alexander's campaign in India are uniformly suspect, either due to the loss of the accounts of contemporaries, or due to the long gap between the events and their narration.

There is compelling evidence, indirect, but compelling nevertheless, that Alexander did have concrete cultural drives to continuing his campaigns eastward across the Ganges-Yamuna rivers, into the Ganges Valley. If we consult contemporary maps, due to the very approximate nature of geographical knowledge of parts away from the Indus and its tributaries, those parts well-known and familiar to the imperial predecessors, the Achaemenid Persians, we find that they uniformly place Okean spanning the boundaries of the Icthyophagi in a more-or-less north-south orientation. We should not be looking at contemporary, well-defined maps, but at the maps of that age. And those maps showed the Ganges Valley and the rivers therein falling into an easterly Okean. Those maps had no indication of any territory further to the east, the Brahmaputra Valley, for instance. They all showed the Ganges Valley ending in the great world-encircling ocean.

Enough hints exist to suggest that Alexander, an avid student of Aristotle, had this wonderful dream of fighting his way to that mystical point, the great ocean, and, after bringing the Achaemenid Empire to its knees and making his grip on it as tight as possible in the days of horse-borne passage, and month-long intervals needed for the transmission of imperial commands, he had this objective in mind. We have to bear this frustration in mind when we observe his ruthless treatment of territories and cities that the army encountered on its unexpected turn and march to the sea.

As for the Nandas mobilising for war, for someone to topple the Achaemenids and not make a powerful impression of a large kingdom lying directly in line with his line of movement through north-west India is extremely unlikely. Only an imbecile ruler would have ignored the possible threat; considering that there was a great deal of contact between the Greek merchants and traders from Taxila and its purlieus and the local residents, the information about Issus-Granicus River-Gaugamela must have gotten back to the Nandas. We need not speculate too much about the exact status of Porus and of other possible vassal states around Alexander's line of march. It is enough that he had penetrated as far as the Hydaspes, after fighting his classic battles in Asia Minor and a ruthless pursuit through the north-east corners of the Achaemenid Empire.

No, Porus was an independent king.

When the army of a king who has been on a expedition across continents, burned hundreds of cities and killed hundreds of thousand of people, is right across the river that separates ur land from that king, you mobilise and wait for him to cross.


800px-Nanda_Empire%2C_c.325_BCE.png

This is the nanda empire at its zenith under the Kind Dhana Nanda in 325BC..Battle of Hydaspes took place in 326BC east of Jhelum, land which now lies in Pakistan Punjab.
As you can see, Nanda empire never stretched even upto the western borders of modern day India.

It is very unsound to impose our own imaginings of the extent of long-deceased kingdoms and empires onto modern maps. We need to look back at the maps as they were presented to people of that era, and not at our own maps.

Second, there is absolutely no foundation for this so-called map. Nothing by way of facts exists to justify that depiction.

The Nanda empire map is wrong, first of all there is little evidence what the nanda empire fully extended looked like, secondly this is made by a user who edits wikipedia. Nanda empire probably stretched all the way to karnataka, some inscriptions from mysore declare that the nanda territory included mysore as well. There is also nanda reference in tamil sangham literature along with mauryas, which means nandas could have been present as far as borders of tamil nadu.

Same article also states that nanda empire stretched from punjab in the west to odisha in the east



This is another map i found from the web

nanda-empire-323-bce.jpg


there is also reference to Nanda arbitrating in western asia's political disputes, this cannot be possible if nandas were not already present in borderlands of western asia



regards

We are really on very thin ice here.
 
"Did decline of major indian empires played major factor in Islamic invasion and why?"

This is completely wrong and looking at history through RSS eyes.
There has never ever been an Islamic invasion of India.

The closest you can say was Bin Qassim, but even that was only in Pakistan and didn't last very long.

In world history central Asians have invaded almost everywhere, China, Iran, Europe, India, etc.

They have been doing that for like 10,000 years.


They only difference is that during the latest invasion of India, they happened to be Muslim.

Their pagan ancestors also invaded India, China, etc.

RSS want you to think that Islam invaded India, but that is objectively false.

Central Asians, who happened to be Muslim, invaded India, just like their pagan ancestors did.
 
You are a Muslim today most probably because of that Jazya itself. Because your ancestors could not handle added pressure of a tax and converted.
Are you implying that the present day poor hindu dalits were the rich landlords of yesteryears??? Hence they were able to pay jizya and not convert??

Not really, it's a proven fact.

I don't understand the fright you people have towards it, it means nothing. The Vedic people are still your ancestors, they just happened to come from outside of India.
Because, it gives the "native" hindus ownership rights of Indian sub continent over "foreign" muslims, christians etc.
 
"Did decline of major indian empires played major factor in Islamic invasion and why?"

This is completely wrong and looking at history through RSS eyes.
There has never ever been an Islamic invasion of India.

The closest you can say was Bin Qassim, but even that was only in Pakistan and didn't last very long.

In world history central Asians have invaded almost everywhere, China, Iran, Europe, India, etc.

They have been doing that for like 10,000 years.


They only difference is that during the latest invasion of India, they happened to be Muslim.

Their pagan ancestors also invaded India, China, etc.

RSS want you to think that Islam invaded India, but that is objectively false.

Central Asians, who happened to be Muslim, invaded India, just like their pagan ancestors did.

yes you are correct about that, it was not one way invasion as well, during IVC, mahajanapadas, maurya, gupta, hindu shahi, the indians expanded in central asia as well, some foreigners even declared parts of central asia as india minor.

regards
 
zakat is not a tax, muslims i think also paid tax along with zakat just like today.

regards
Never said zakat is tax.

This happens all the time. Nations rise and fall.



Raja Dahir and Prithviraj Chauhan did put up a brave fight. If only they fought for Islam instead of against it.



That depends on how you define the term "Gujjar". Groups like the Pratiharas, Chauhans, Tomars, etc are present among Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars among others too.



What? No, Muslims were occupying India long before him.



Again, no lol. The West is the heir to the Roman/Greek tradition, and Persian culture remains strong within Iran.



Not really, it's a proven fact.

I don't understand the fright you people have towards it, it means nothing. The Vedic people are still your ancestors, they just happened to come from outside of India.



Muslims were taxed too lol.

Almost all of these conversion theories are pathetic. The majority of people who converted were:

1. Low caste Hindus seeking a way out
2. Aristocrats who wanted to maintain their positions of power
3. People who just wanted to get with the times and join the new trendy religion
We should never be defensive about conversions.
Yes, mass.conversions happened and the low caste conversion theory to escape discrimination does not hold. There are too many low caste people who resist conversion.

But the reason for the mass conversions is simple. The hindus fought against Islam. Period. As per rules, Muslims respectfully gave them options - accept Islam or leave/face the consequences. Many did. Our beloved Rasool SAW did the same. This is sunnat. We have nothing to be ashamed of. In fact those who were forcefully converted - their next generation are grateful for allowing them to leave pagan ways. This is His will. Peace.

it gives the "native" hindus ownership rights of Indian sub continent over "foreign" muslims, christians etc.
There is nothing called Hinduism. There is nothing called Hindus. Let's call them bhakts and Terrorists.
 
The hindus fought against Islam
There is nothing called Hindus
Oh look, the mother of all ironies.

It is very unsound to impose our own imaginings of the extent of long-deceased kingdoms and empires onto modern maps. We need to look back at the maps as they were presented to people of that era, and not at our own maps.
Yes, we cannot imagine our own maps, but to clearly under the true extent of any empire, we need to compare with today's boundaries. And they are not imaginations, there are various sources, local to the land and greek as well that tell us of the extent of this empire, based on which maps are made. These maps, may not be entirely accurate but they do convey a rough idea of the borders.
 
i do feel that in indian history invaders were specially glorified because British themselves were the invaders and they needed to justify invasion. it has been particularly stressed how india was always invaded and ruled by outsiders from the hindu kush region.

But if you look closely, the glorified persian empire itself was invaded by the greeks/alexander, the parthians were also invaders/parthians though from iran were not persians, the hapthalites/huns, and then arabs invaded and then the turks, the native persians didn't regain control of their territory until after qajar period in the 20th century. Similarly the chinese had two big foreign dynasties called Yuan who were mongols of Kublai khan and the Qing just before the commies took over in the 20th century. Some other chinese members have also informed me even tang dynasty was foreign but im not able to find a source for that.

regards

Go back some centuries before Alexander invasion. Persians themselves were invaders from central asia.
 
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