DG ISPR press conference

[imadul]

Looks like another Ayub-Yahya or Musharraf-Kayani scenario....

Success has a thousand fathers, failure has none....

A man may forget the murderer of his father, but not the loss of patrimony - Socrates

I don't see martial law.
There shall be open confrontation within army.
But isi chief and coas have become pungently personal. Highly unprofessional.

 

[HAIDER]

 

[imadul]

No "establishment" can survive after displeasing the base and losing its support....

Let's see we see an Erdoan like comeback and conspirators put to task.
Urdu is Pakistan national language, a Turkic word, wish we had some more Turkic blood

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I don't see martial law.
There shall be open confrontation within army.
But isi chief and coas have become pungently personal. Highly unprofessional.

Hopefully, the next Pak Chief doesn't like to have Bajwa's dirty laundries in his lockers......

Let's see we see an Erdoan like comeback and conspirators put to task.
Urdu is Pakistan national language, a Turkic word, wish we had some more Turkic blood

By the by, it took the Turkish folks a couple of centuries to rise against the tutelage at the service of the Imperialists...

 

[imadul]

This is what happens when you recruit officers from all rungs of society. In our quest to make a "national" army, we forgot the cardinal rule for any military. Recruit your officer corp from the right stock or else (leaders always shape the standards). Pakistan's army experiment to become a national army has destroyed this institution. In the early days of the institution proportionally Pushtuns represented a far larger segment of the officer corp, whereas the proportional majority of the soldiers were from Punjab. As that proportion changed along with the "class" (you can hate me for saying this), the overall quality of the institution dropped. There was a strong line of families that fit the bill, of either good officers or good soldiers. Many Pashtuns (generally those that settled in Punjab), who could easily straddle the Pushtun-Punjabi line were the best crop to get the officer corp. Whereas the NCO came from certain areas of Punjab and KPK. That changed and with that the caliber. Combine that with consistent Martial Laws, Cantts in the middle of cities, the entire military industrial complex, along with the system of military and retired military patronage, and today Pakistan finds itself in a position that we have these two represent two of the more critical functions the Pad Army. We are royally "screwed". Allah is the only one protecting us. What a complete disaster.

Sorry, Sir.
This is highly toxic. The martial race concept led to the dismemberment of Pakistan, military action in baluchistan, altaf factor in karachi.
There should be merit, justice, and fairness in army, that the only criterion.
Problem is, greed has overtaken army irrespective of ethnic backgrounds, except few.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

@akramishaqkhan @Jango @Dalit

Don’t be pussies guys. Hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis including Arshad Sharif didn’t give up their lives so you guys can cry. We’re all in this together and the battle has just begun.

One day I want to see a Pakistan that I can come back to and see my future generations thrive in. This fight ain’t about us or even Imran Khan anymore..it’s bigger than that. It’s about our future and our children’s future. Jihad is the way of the Musalmaan. Allah swt da na lo, kuch ne hota.

Ek pataa bhi Allah swt ki ijazat ke beghair ne hilta. Kon he yeh bajra, yeh donald lun, ye Amreeka, Allah swt ke saamne?

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Sorry, Sir.
This is highly toxic. The martial race concept led to the dismemberment of Pakistan, military action in baluchistan, altaf factor in karachi.
There should be merit, justice, and fairness in army, that the only criterion.
Problem is, greed has overtaken army irrespective of ethnic backgrounds, except few.

It is not a martial race issue. I for one don't believe in martial race concepts, especially in modern warfare, where being a good gamer is better than your ability to hit a 12x12 plate with iron sites.

What I am saying is that generational occupation has with it a weight of history, ancestry and family name. It has a bearing on how people comport and handle themselves in situations of weakness or in trying times. It is not iron clad, and many will still succumb. But generally speaking there is a greater weight of history, tradition, and family that cannot be overlooked.

Even in modern European and North American families, to this date this is still considered.
Officer corp especially is a family oriented profession, not an economic or social ascendency play.

Now the British in their European war fighting days were very push pegged to this notion. However with the Empire growing they found a shortage of manpower. So then they enabled people of lower "stature" join the officer corp. This was one of the only ways in colonial England for men to move within their social class. Even today go look at the core staple of men who pass their academies. And see how many are multi-generational. It is not by accident. It is by design.

 

[HAIDER]

I have tried to distance myself away from the forum and these news now too...because frankly it's both depressing and hopeless.

Yesterday I was working late at night and I kid you not I was left open mouthed at seeing the DG ISI holding the press conference in the suit.

Then I watched the replay, and seeing his James Bond style entry, then his way of speaking, his facial expressions, his innuendos, the planted journos on the front row...I was actually left shocked and that's the first time I think I was really disappointed into what the ISI and the military establishment has brought upon themselves and the institution itself.

I have heard that there is some internal resentment over this shenanigan as well, but I am cut off these days so waiting for stronger confirmation on this.

A group of a few ex-servicemen told me that too...they were really shocked about this press conference ...but their main focus was the quality of officers now on top brass .....is shocking .. the military quality of officers is going down since the late 80s ..

 

[TigerOfMysore]

@akramishaqkhan @Jango @Dalit

Don’t be pussies guys. Hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis including Arshad Sharif didn’t give up their lives so you guys can cry. We’re all in this together and the battle has just begun.

One day I want to see a Pakistan that I can come back to and see my future generations thrive in. This fight ain’t about us or even Imran Khan anymore..it’s bigger than that. It’s about our future and children’s future. Jihad is the way of the Musalmaan. Allah swt da na lo, kuch ne hota.

Ek pataa bhi Allah swt ki ijazat ke beghair ne hilta. Kon he yeh bajra, yeh donald lun, ye Amreeka, Allah swt ke saamne?

Yaar I have only two modes (gears). Either I walk off and go into a corner, or there is the other mode. It is the later that I am scared of.

Internal resentment is on a boil. No internal mutiny possible however, but morale is shot. I think "Ab so kasar reh gaye hay wo teelee leganey key reh gayee hay". The grass is dry. Where this match will come from who knows, but it will come. And then SHTF, it is not going to be pretty.

 

[Jango]

A group of a few ex-servicemen told me that too...they were really shocked about this press conference ...but their main focus was the quality of officers now on top brass .....is shocking .. the military quality of officers is going down since the late 80s ..

I remember that when QBJ got promoted as COAS, a very pro N league ex Brig who I know very well was going day and night and criticizing his appointment, and one word which stuck with me and has now come to be true is how much he criticized the lack of grace, authority, and personality. He had much to say about the way QBJ speaks, the way he carries himself, and much more. And even though he did favors to N league, the ex Brig still criticizes the establishment, that I will give credit for.

But seeing the DG ISI speak yesterday, agr koi Captain subah ki stand down main aisay bolay to usay CO tea break tak ulta latka day.

The same was also said for Gen Faiz...by many. Is this something that is now becoming common in the military? I sure hope not, but evidence proves otherwise. From the likes of Tariq Khan et al, to this.

 

[Clutch]

I'm posting it here because it's purely political press conference not related to military work in any way

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585521567009837057

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585520625933844480

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585517516964651008

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585521221600514049

Man he's trying emotional Blackmailing
Nice tactics

https://twitter.com/x/status/1585522379928764416

Here is an awesome response to the terrorist ISI and ISPR press release...

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Yaar I have only two modes (gears). Either I walk off and go into a corner, or there is the other mode. It is the later that I am scared of.

Internal resentment is on a boil. No internal mutiny possible however, but morale is shot. I think "Ab so kasar reh gaye hay wo teelee leganey key reh gayee hay". The grass is dry. Where this match will come from who knows, but it will come. And then SHTF, it is not going to be pretty.

Good, go rest then. We might need that other side very soon.

 

[ziaulislam]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1525884244748382208

Get justice for me if I'm killed, Imran asks charged crowd at Faisalabad rally

Asks crowd to promise him they will "never accept slavery" and "never vote for a party whose leaders' money is stashed abroad".

www.dawn.com

And then what?
Bhutto was hanged nothing happened

Everyone is looking at each other but someone will say yes ultimately to put the noose..

My guess it will be maryum she is the only one with guta

 

[Laser]

Politics me aynge to Galiyan to khain ge. Siyasiyon ko Galiyon se takleef nahi hoti, in ko to takleef bhi bahut hoti hai. Takleef bhi itni k.....................

 

[Jango]

This is what happens when you recruit officers from all rungs of society. In our quest to make a "national" army, we forgot the cardinal rule for any military. Recruit your officer corp from the right stock or else (leaders always shape the standards). Pakistan's army experiment to become a national army has destroyed this institution. In the early days of the institution proportionally Pushtuns represented a far larger segment of the officer corp, whereas the proportional majority of the soldiers were from Punjab. As that proportion changed along with the "class" (you can hate me for saying this), the overall quality of the institution dropped. There was a strong line of families that fit the bill, of either good officers or good soldiers. Many Pashtuns (generally those that settled in Punjab), who could easily straddle the Pushtun-Punjabi line were the best crop to get the officer corp. Whereas the NCO came from certain areas of Punjab and KPK. That changed and with that the caliber. Combine that with consistent Martial Laws, Cantts in the middle of cities, the entire military industrial complex, along with the system of military and retired military patronage, and today Pakistan finds itself in a position that we have these two represent two of the more critical functions the Pad Army. We are royally "screwed". Allah is the only one protecting us. What a complete disaster.

I had written about this a while back in hidden words, and have heard this countless times from serving and ex-servicemen (see my post in the other thread), but I fully agree with you.

This does come off as crass, and rude, and frankly unethical as well. But it is the reality. The efforts by the military (army especially, and navy, PAF not as much) to recruit from all corners of the country and somewhat lower the barriers has created this problem. Now you might say, we need a national army and officer rank from all parts of the country, and that is true. But you have to weigh the pros vs the cons. Again, I do not want to hurt anyone's sentiments, I myself am from a pind , but this is becoming apparent day by day. You cannot expect a person who has been raised for 18 years in Layyah or Noshki to just transform after getting into PMA. The roots remain. Whether we like it or not, standards were dropped in certain cases.

On the flip side of the argument you can quote Kayani and how he carried himself, but that was the exception I believe rather than the norm. Pichlay 4/5 salon main jo jo harkatain dekhi hain (not only the COAS or DG ISI mind you), you are led to believe something needs to change. Compare the lineage and upbringing of let's say Tariq Khan with some of the current crop, and you will realize the issue.

But perhaps this is a viewpoint of the older generation fauji, and not the new one.

Mind you, this is the result of efforts in the past 15 years or so. Ab jo aur nayi generation arahi hai (Instagram fauji as I like to call them), inhain Twitter or IG par larkion kay DM say nikalnay ki fursat hi nhn mil rahi. Hi, I am Maj XYZ from Armored Corps, can I take you out for a coffee? Yes, that is a real message that a relative of mine received.