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Developing Ties Between Pak, Russia, China, Iran & the CARS

Pakistan and Russia are regional power while the Americans need to arrive from a diffrent continent on airliners which are prone to shooting down or ships which can be sinked..there should be strong ties between Pakistan China and Russia, I will exclude India from the mix as they are more than willing to be a white man proxy!
 
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and Pakistan will be the common factor.. Last time you allied with USA against USSR now are now dreaming of allying with Russia against US.. Russia may still be looking for a revenge and the revenge will be first on you as you were the ones who allowed use of your land/people/resources etc against them.. so don't hold too high hopes on this dream..
 
Pakistan and Russia are regional power while the Americans need to arrive from a diffrent continent on airliners which are prone to shooting down or ships which can be sinked..there should be strong ties between Pakistan China and Russia,

All good and well, but you need to go deeper than that - relationships and alliances are built on shared interests - as some of the articles on this thread argue, those shared interests are primarily economic, and to a lesser degree security related. The security interests, from the regional perspective, primarily tie into cooperation against criminal activity (drugs, smuggling, terrorism).

Neither the Russians nor the Chinese face the kind of 'military threat' that Pakistan and Iran face from the US. Therefore, any kind of 'security alliance' along the lines of NATO, at this point in time, holds little to no interest for Russia and China.

I am not ruling out a security alliance down the road, but the only way it would ever be considered is if Russia, China, Pakistan and the CAR's manage to develop significant economic interests, which would then tie into domestic and regional security and stability, and therefore offer Russia and China a stake in ensuring that this 'cooperative network' is not threatened by Western military actions and policies (sanctions etc.).
 
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and Pakistan will be the common factor.. Last time you allied with USA against USSR now are now dreaming of allying with Russia against US.. Russia may still be looking for a revenge and the revenge will be first on you as you were the ones who allowed use of your land/people/resources etc against them.. so don't hold too high hopes on this dream..

Do you feel the same for the Brits and does the Japanese think the same about the Americans? Besides, they are no longer the USSR, they are Russia now.
 
I merged the thread on Russia and Pakistan potentially finding common ground in restricting the flow of NATO supplies, since it points to one potential area of cooperation between the two on the international scene, as far as opposing US policies go.
 
Not much, as Russia and India further will combinly going to present themself in afghanistan..
Infact, its strategically important to have a support of pakistan and if russia have good relationship pakistan than India can feel relieved for its assests in afghanistan..
Continued and improving Pakistani cooperation with Russia will depend on finding common ground in Afghanistan, something that Pakistan appears to have understood and already started working towards.

It is in fact now in the interest of the US to keep Afghan power players from reconciling with Pakistan, and keep Afghan-Pak relations boiling ...
 
Ex-Soviet states aid U.S. transit

The United States is relying increasingly on three transit routes snaking through Central Asia, Russia and the Caucuses to ship nonmilitary supplies and fuel into Afghanistan as the deteriorating relationship between Washington and Pakistan closes off border crossings, according to a Senate report obtained by the Associated Press.

Use of the Northern Distribution Network to supply U.S. and coalition forces has been crucial in the war against terrorism, and its role underscores the political and strategic importance of the Central Asian nations on the front lines of the conflict.

In broader security terms, the U.S. has invested millions of dollars in the former Soviet states - compared with billions spent on Afghanistan. But even that limited U.S. assistance could serve as a bulwark against the region’s major players, Russia and China, the report suggested.

The study found that just three years ago, about 90 percent of nonmilitary supplies to Afghanistan went through Karachi, Pakistan.

Today, close to 75 percent of cargo is shipped through the northern network.

About 40 percent of cargo goes through the ground network, 31 percent is shipped by air and 29 percent heads through Pakistan, the study said, citing figures from the military’s U.S. Transportation Command.

A supply route other than through Pakistan has become imperative for the U.S.

Pakistan closed its two Afghanistan crossings in Chaman and Torkham, in the northwestern Khyber tribal area, almost immediately after NATO aircraft attacked two army posts along the border on Nov. 26. The strikes killed 24 Pakistani troops.

Last year, after U.S. helicopters accidentally killed two Pakistani troops, Islamabad closed Torkham for 11 days. It reopened the route after Washington formally apologized.

“Everybody’s hopeful we can get something back on track with Pakistan,” Sen. John F. Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat and chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said in an interview.

“Pakistanis make money off that route. … That may interest them at some point … but on the other hand, we can’t be prisoners of one relationship with something as vital to our national security interests,” Mr. Kerry said.

The 25-page report by the Democratic staff of the committee was to have been released Monday. Congressional aides made a field visit to Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan in October.

The network involves three routes to ship items including fuel, clothes, vehicles and other “nonlethal” supplies.

One route begins in Poti, Georgia, a port on the Black Sea, goes through Azerbaijan, across the Caspian Sea and into Central Asia.

A second route begins in Riga, Latvia, and extends through Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan.


The third route also starts in Latvia and goes through Russia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, and heads into Afghanistan via Tajikistan.


The United States has increased its reliance on the Northern Distribution Network, the report said, but it “is not a perfect substitute for the current supply routes in Pakistan.

For example, the Northern Distribution Network allows for only one-way transit of goods to Afghanistan, though discussions reportedly are under way to expand the network to support two-way transit of cargo leaving Afghanistan via the northern routes.

Shipping through the network is also costly - an additional $10,000 per 20-foot container - compared with going through Pakistan.

Separate from the network, the U.S. relies on the Manas Transit Center in Kyrgyzstan to transport American and coalition forces. Manas also serves as an air refueling site for aircraft heading to Afghanistan.

In highlighting the role of the five former Soviet states - Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan - the report said modest U.S. investments in the region could produce a significant payoff, especially as the United States looks to stabilize Afghanistan for the planned U.S. drawdown through 2014.

The prospect of U.S. troops leaving unnerves the region, the report said.

“Afghanistan’s neighbors fear the 2014 security transition and withdrawal of coalition forces could mean abandonment,” the report said.

It said government officials told the Senate aides in meetings that they fear the transition will increase drug trafficking and create a security vacuum that extremist groups, such as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan and Islamic Jihad Union, would fill.

“Transitioning security and governance to the Afghans does not mean America’s departure, and I want Pakistan to hear that loud and clear,” said Mr. Kerry, who has made several trips to Pakistan.

“And I want Afghans and the neighbors to hear that loud and clear. America is not retreating from its interests. We’re really trying to be more effective about the way in which we’re going to support them.”

The report recommends economic assistance for some of the Central Asian nations and investments in English-language training and public-private projects on cross-border electricity, especially as China, Russia, Iran, South Korea, India, Japan and Turkey play bigger roles.


The report says Russia is expanding its influence through military bases and commercial agreements, and may redeploy troops to the border of Tajikistan and Afghanistan. China is making financial investments and spending money on infrastructure.

Total U.S. assistance to the Central Asian nations, including security and economic aid, was about $436 million last year, compared with about $15 billion for Afghanistan.

“You look at things like flood control or seeds for crops, or cattle for a community, or things like that, that are not that expensive,” Mr. Kerry said. “Boy, does that make a difference.”


Ex-Soviet states aid U.S. transit - Washington Times
 
There are only two shows in town-the american silk road or alternativly a link between these 4 countries. thats where the oil lines have to go, thats where the money is and that will require coordination to a high degree. The reason that we are not hearing about more aggresive moves from china and russia is cos I think we are about 7 or 8 years ahead. The chinese when looking at iran-pak-china oil pipeline have all the details but its in not immediate concern. wheras iran and pak could do with it immediatly For example over the next 5 years I think china will take a greater interest. Chinese do not give severel hundred or was it a couple of hundred million US dollars just for a laugh or charity in my opinion. Gwador in due course will become a key transit and security node

---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

Sparky interesting but lets say that supply route was vital to american intersts. Do you think they would allow that info into the public domain??
 
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and Pakistan will be the common factor.. Last time you allied with USA against USSR now are now dreaming of allying with Russia against US.. Russia may still be looking for a revenge and the revenge will be first on you as you were the ones who allowed use of your land/people/resources etc against them.. so don't hold too high hopes on this dream..
Don't be ridiculous. Russia today has no hard feelings against Pakistan, only against USA itself. China was also on the other side tormenting USSR, but now China and Russia are partners against USA hegemony.

Wouldn't it be funny if india was on the wrong side first when USSR collapsed then again when China and Russia defeat USA hegemony?
 
[/COLOR]Sparky interesting but lets say that supply route was vital to american intersts. Do you think they would allow that info into the public domain??

Which public? US? :what:
 
you have extended this "off-topic" discussion by deleting my relevant post.......

You term Anything and everything against your views as "off-topic".
Even pointing someone's mistake is "off-topic" for you........
If you don't like to hear opponent's views....then there is no point in maintaining a forum in the first place........

Ban me......I don't care........I don't think, I have done anything against forum rules.

off topic mate.

BTW Russia and Pakistan recently have a good solid relationship - and of course there is a supreme bond between China and Pakistan - always strong....
 
No sorry sparky its english colloquialism would you want PA to know that you are very reliant on their routes when you dont trust them?

Dont they know it already?:what:
 
^^^
and Pakistan will be the common factor.. Last time you allied with USA against USSR now are now dreaming of allying with Russia against US.. Russia may still be looking for a revenge and the revenge will be first on you as you were the ones who allowed use of your land/people/resources etc against them.. so don't hold too high hopes on this dream..

your post suggests a lack of understanding of geo political strategy. what you state is flawed and tribal

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 PM ----------

Dont they know it already?:what:

i think western press have been trying to play it down recent years
 
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