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Destroying Myth of Indian Indengious Weapons Capability

airframe, avionics and on board systems, of the F-16s were used to give an idea as to what systems would be installed on the JF-17.not simply reverse engineered.

And no it doesn't make it the US'
Same could be said about LCA, foreign engine, Mirage airframe, foreign radar.... and yet it is still called indigenous?



FYI LCA's air frame is not based on Mirages air frame let me guess your proof for this is "both are delta wing platforms" ? and the Radar is not foreign its a hybrid MMR made with Israel using Indian inputs


and let me ask you this what is Pakitans contribution to the JF-17 besides paying for half of the project?
 
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Boss of raided spa returns armed with advance bail
Madhuri Hingorani outsmarts cops waiting to arrest her at airport, seeks permission from police commissioner to reopen her massage parlour

Manjunath L Hanji

Posted On Sunday, June 05, 2011 at 12:53:53 AM



Bangalore International Airport on Thursday night witnessed heavy drama when socialite Madhuri Hingorani, from whose upscale massage parlour police recently arrested several men and women, returned from her London trip. Police wanted to take her into custody in connection with the raid, but she outsmarted them by producing an anticipatory bail order issued by a city court.

City Crime Branch sleuths had on June 1 night raided Energetic Inc, a massage parlour run by Hingorani in Jayamahal, and arrested nine women and 11 men under Immoral Trafficking Prevention Act. The arrested also included former DRDO scientist Mohan Rao and J Narayan, a defence equipment supplier.Assistant commissioner of police R Lakshman said, “She returned to the city on Thursday night. We arrested her and released her after verifying the anticipatory bail.”

Meanwhile, Hingorani has reportedly sent a letter to police commissioner B G Jyothi Prakash Mirji seeking permission to restart her parlour. She has reportedly mentioned in her letter that the establishment was a ‘spa’ which treats people with ailments and she wanted to reopen it.

Lakshman said, “On Friday, she (Hingorani) requested us to let her reopen the parlour, but we are yet to decide on it. If she is ready to give full assurance to run without illegal activities, we may give permission.”
 
How DRDO failed India's military
January 15, 2008


The difference between India's failure against Pakistan's success in their respective missile programmes is based on the purist mindset of the Defence Research and Development Organisation to develop indigenously all complex weapon platforms and Islamabad's intelligent alliance with China and the approach to achieve its goals 'by any means, fair or foul'! While Pakistan was pragmatic in its approach, India was merely pompous.

Therefore, it should not come as a surprise that India's Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme has been finally shelved. This marks an unceremonious end of an ambitious technological misadventure by the DRDO -- country's premier defence R&D agency. For nearly two-and-a-half decades, it doled out mere promises to the country's armed forces -- delaying their much- needed modernisation plans.

The armed forces were forced to resort to off-the-shelf 'panic buying' whenever they realised that the strategic balance was tilting in favour of their adversaries. Besides missiles, there are other equipments such as the Main Battle Tank Arjun, Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Nishant, Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, INSAS rifles which have been thrust on the end users despite unsatisfactory performances during trials.

In the bargain, the military lost 25 precious years and the taxpayers' nearly Rs 2,000 crore by keeping the IGMDP programme under wraps to hide its inefficiency from the nation.

Even when the IGMDP was embarked upon, many pointed out that to successfully complete such a high-end technological programme, foreign collaboration would be needed. But the DRDO's obduracy prevailed and the programme dragged for so many years.

It is wasteful to try and 'reinvent the wheel', but that is precisely what the DRDO backed by New Delhi did for all these years -- trying to develop every system and sub-system indigenously and ending up developing practically nothing of substance.

The IGMPD started in 1983 after India failed to reverse engineer a Russian missile in the seventies, with A P J Abdul Kalam as the head. However, 25 years later the DRDO missiles remain off target. The army cannot rely on Prithvi, a battlefield support missile, unless technological issues affecting its launch readiness are resolved. Trishul, the quick reaction anti-aircraft missile, turned out to be a dud and is now being resurrected with the induction of foreign technology as a stopgap arrangement for the air force, till the Spyder missile systems from Israel finally arrives. Meanwhile this delay for the navy meant importing Israel's Barak missile. While Akash, the medium range surface to air missile with 27-km range, had its first user trial in end 2007, Nag, the anti-tank missile with 4-7 km range, is yet to begin user trials.

Meanwhile, the air force with depleting fleet of obsolete Russian SA-3 Pechora and OSA-AK missile systems, is in a quandary as to how to plug holes in its air defence system in the western sector as the DRDO has failed to deliver.

AGNI �I and AGNI-II with a range of 700 km and 2,500 km respectively, have been tested five times, which is inadequate to generate confidence in a nuclear capable missile. The end users of these ballistic missiles are army and the air force with 8 and 24 missiles in their arsenals but lack confidence in the quality of the product even as AGNI-IV is readied for trial in mid-2008 with a range of 6,000 km.

The tacit admission of the DRDO's inability must not be limited to the missile programme alone; a review of all projects under its aegis is needed for a reality check and course correction. The DRDO fault-line primarily is a result of lack of accountability, focus, and failure to develop scientific disposition.

The director general of DRDO wears three hats. He is also, secretary defence R&D and scientific advisor to the defence minister. These three inter-linked hats on one individual destroy the basic principal of accountability. Therefore, he is not answerable to anyone.

DRDO scuttled a contract that was on the verge of being signed by India in 1997 for the import of a Weapon Locating Radar as the latter promised to produce it indigenously within two years. Due to this negligence, the Indian Army could not neutralise Pakistan's artillery fire effectively in the Kargil conflict and suffered heavy causalities. Of course, the DRDO to date is not in a position to produce WLR and ultimately India bought it from the previously selected producer in 2003. In my view, DRDO should be held directly responsible for these unwarranted war causalities.

The DRDO actually produces in its Tezpur laboratory orchids and mushrooms, identifies the sharpest chili in the world with pride, while its lab in Pithoragarh develops hybrid varieties of cucumber, tomato and capsicum. It spends merrily from the defence budget on developing new strains of Angora rabbits and 'Namkeen Herbal Tea'! DRDO by indulging in such irrelevant activities lost its focus and sight of its primary responsibility.

Instead of building a scientific temper, DRDO from its inception indulged in empire building, spending a major part of its budget on world-class auditoriums, convention centres, conference halls, and hostels, while neglecting research work.

To remove DRDO's fault-line, New Delhi should rapidly transform India into a low cost, high end R&D centre of the world without neglecting its manufacturing sector. Fairly ideal demographic conditions exist along with favourable geo-political factors whereby international actors are willing to invest, as well as, set up shop in India. To maintain their technological lead, the West finds India as a logical destination for their defence industries, both as a potential market and also a base to develop low cost high-end research projects.

On the other hand, we need to leapfrog as well as piggyback technologically, as reinventing the wheel is not necessarily an answer to the yawning technological gap that exists between the western countries and India. Therefore, there are synergies that should be exploited. Enormous mutual benefits can occur to both, if New Delhi can develop itself as a world-class R&D centre and a global hub for manufacturing sensitive military equipment.

Due to the rapid march of technologies and huge costs involved in R&D, no single player is in a position to deliver next generation weapon systems. Whether it is Boeing, Lockheed Martin, DCN, Airbus, or HDW -- all of them sub-contract different assemblies and sub-systems globally to the most competitive and competent companies. The other interesting trend is the formation of trans-national consortiums of nations and companies to manufacture superior platforms like the Euro fighter or the Euro copter. The game, thus, is global as it is not feasible for a single player to manufacture or develop each item.

In the development Sukhoi SU-30 MKI, the major player was the Russian corporation IRKUT but without the help of France [Images] and Israel, the fighter aircraft could not have developed the decisive technological edge that it displays. Therefore, India needs to shed its inhibitions, diversify, and form international industrial alliances to leapfrog technological gaps, boost export revenues from its military industrial complex, and leverage this strength as a strategic asset in Asia.

In any case, defence technologies become obsolete by the time a country can reinvent the wheel. Therefore, radical shifting of strategic gears to a more advantageous position by opening up the field to private sector will stimulate self-sufficiency. Companies like Tatas or L&T can enter into joint ventures and where necessary import CEO's and employ foreign scientists to kick start complex projects.

In fact, to improve performance of the Public Sector Units there should be competitors making fighter aircraft, missiles, and warships in the corporate world. Such farsighted policy shifts will improve India's self�sufficiency in the shortest possible time frame. This in turn, will increase the stakes of multi-nationals in India's well being and marginalise sanction regimes.

The Indian Foreign Office took 58 years to grudgingly acknowledge the criticality of military diplomacy in international affairs. If DRDO can appreciate that a technologically advanced and vibrant defence industry is equally critical for India's security and its global aspirations, we will not replicate this mistake. In other words, it should be made to realise that it solely exists to support the armed forces and not vice versa. Therefore, New Delhi should force ruthless accountability, create focus and development of scientific temperament within DRDO and ensure fruitful collaboration with the Indian and international private sector, instead of permitting them to fritter away the defence budget on irrelevant and peripheral activities.
 
Bangalore: DRDO scientist arrested in raid on massage parlour

Ayan Pramanik & Aravind Gowda | Bangalore, May 23, 2011 | Updated 11:59 IST


Jagjivan Ram (inset), the director of a defence laboratory, was arrested from a high-end spa in this building on May 11.A scientist associated with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was arrested in a recent raid on a massage parlour in Bangalore which allegedly doubled as a brothel.Jagjivan Ram, the director of the DRDO-affiliated Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), was one of 17 people nabbed from the high-end spa cum massage parlour on May 11.

Two pimps and women working at the parlour were also arrested.

Rao was a member of the team that developed the Kaveri engine for the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft.

He is also the chairperson of the Bangalore branch of the Aeronautical Society of India.

He claimed innocence when confronted by the police, saying he was at the spa to enquire about treatment for his wife's nagging spondylitis and that he was at the "wrong place at the wrong time". The Bangalore Police raided the parlour run by socialite Madhuri Hingorani at around 11 pm after receiving information that it engaged in the trafficking of women. The parlour has denied the charge.

Bangalore police commissioner Jyothiprakash Mirji said a look-out notice has been sent to all airports for Hingorani, the proprietor of Energie Inc, which manages the parlour. She is currently believed to be in the UK. The Bangalore Police has booked Rao under the Immoral Trafficking Prevention Act. " My lawyers asked me not to discuss the issue as it is sub-judice," he said, adding he had been left traumatised by the incident.

The DRDO's vigilance wing has launched an internal inquiry to examine the charges. "Such reports against a high-profile officer raise serious concerns," a DRDO official said. The organisation's Delhi office has been briefed about the developments.

A decision is expected by Monday.

In police net

- Defence scientist Jagjivan Ram was arrested in a recent raid on a brothel-cum-massage parlour in Bangalore

- The director of the DRDO- affiliated Gas Turbine Research Establishment was a member of the team that developed the Kaveri engine for the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft

- Ram has been charged under the Immoral Trafficking Prevention Act. He has denied the charges, saying he had come to enquire about treatment for his wife's spondylitis
 
Tag Archive | "Failed Indian missiles"
The Delhi Dud Report on Indian Defense: Arms that don't work
Posted on 31 July 2009. Tags: Failed Indian missiles, Indian Duds, The Delhi Dud Report on Indian Defense


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Dud Report


[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpHlhitxDkw]

The CAG Report


[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boFTyp2jJZA]

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX9QGCrkQKw]

Who is responsible for the duds in the Bharati Defense establishment

Part 1


[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpDKNPbvAEY]

Part 2


[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75e5yautiK4]

Part 3


[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Bqc8IBM6k]

Part 4


[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtPYHEPqERM]

All of Indi’a Rockets have failed. 1) Agni 2) Pirthivi 3) Akash 4) Trishul and 5) Nag 6) Agni consisting of surface to surface surface to air and anti-tank systems.

Prithvi: Failure: To date the only reliable delivery system inducted is the Pirthvi missile with a range of 300 kilometres. The subsequent versions of this missile are still undergoing tests. The pride of India the Agni missile tested last time landed 200 kilometres off target.

Akash: Failure: After several years of testing has been shelved for reasons best known to the Indians. Akash was meant as a substitute for Pechora. On the Akash missile, which was the subject of the DRDO media conference here on Tuesday, former air chief S. P. Tyagi said:“Akash was to be ready at a certain time, but it wasn’t. I had to change everything to make up for the delay.” Both missiles were part of a programme to develop indigenous weapons, which began in July 1983, with plans for Agni, Prithvi, Trishul, Akash and Nag missiles.

Trishul: Failure: Trishul is being replaced by Israeli Barak and Russian systems.

The IAF, for instance, has aging Pechora, Igla-1M and OSA-AK missile systems, and that, too, in woefully inadequate numbers.

While Trishul was to replace its OSA-AK weapons system, Akash was meant as a substitute for Pechora.

But both the Trishul and Akash air defence missile systems, which are part of the original Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme launched as far back as 1983, have been dogged by development snags in their “command guidance and integrated Ramjet rocket propulsion” systems.

Trishul, for instance, has been tested over 80 times so far without coming anywhere near becoming operational. It was, in fact, virtually given up for dead in 2003 after around Rs 300 crore was spent on it, before being revived yet again.

Trishul’s repeated failure, in fact, forced the Navy to go in for nine Israeli Barak anti-missile defence systems for its frontline warships, along with 200 Barak missiles, at a cost of Rs 1,510 crore during the 1999 Kargil conflict. The Navy is now inducting even more Barak systems due to Trishul’s continued failure.

Speaking of the Trishul surface-to-air missile that has now been termed a technology demonstrator, former naval chief Sushil Kumar said:“It was a national embarrassment. DRDO made fake claims for 25 years. In the 1999 Kargil conflict, the navy was vulnerable to attacks from Pakistan’s Harpoon.

“Finally the project was scrapped when the navy went in for the Israeli Barak missiles. The Prithvi’s naval variant, Dhanush, is also flawed and ill-conceived, which is being inflicted on the navy.”Indian missile system started back in the 50s on a five folder programme namely:


[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zTnARCBi3c&feature=player_embedded]

Nag: Failure: The Nag proved to be as deadily as the Holy Cow.

Agni: Failure: The Agni-I (range 700 to 800 kilometers) and Agni-II were both products of India’s space program and connected to its Integrated Guided Missile Development Program (IGMDP), itself launched in 1983. Originally, their design used a satellite space-launching rocket (SLV-3) as the first stage, on top of which was mounted the very short-range (150 to 250 kilometers) liquid fuel-propelled Prithvi missile.

The Agni-III’s brand new design, in which both stages use solid propellants, was to enable it to carry a payload weighing up to 1.5 tons and deliver it to targets as far away as Beijing and Shanghai. At present, India lacks an effective nuclear deterrent vis-a-vis China, based on a delivery vehicle carrying a nuclear warhead. Agni-III was meant to fill the void.

The failure of the Agni III was in some ways more serious because it exposed the political limitations of India’s attempts, despite its ambitions, to pursue a military capability which is truly independent of the US’s strategic calculations.

The surface-to-surface ballistic missile, designed to have a range of 3,500 kilometers, took off in a “fairly smooth” manner at the designated hour. But “a series of mishaps” occurred in its later flight path.

The Agni-III was originally meant to be tested in 2003-04. However, the test was postponed owing to technological snags. After their rectification, said reports, the missile’s test flights were put off twice largely for “political reasons”, so as not to annoy the US.

Earlier this year, India decided to postpone the missile test out of fear that a test could hamper US Congressional ratification of the India-US nuclear cooperation deal. Publicly, the Indian defense minister cited “self-imposed restraint” to justify the postponement.

The Indian missile met a disaster as it could not attain the altitude where the first stage is over or the second is even ignited.

He disputed the Indian claim, saying that with the range of 3,500 km, the missile had to go above about 800-900 km while the second stage had to be ignited at 28 to 30 km.

‘If the missile fell from the height of 12 km, it establishes that either it’s motor rocket, the basics of the missile proved failure or the guidance and control system was faulty. In both the probabilities, Indian technology has been exposed in clumsy manners.’

‘It is interesting to watch that Indian missile programme that was initiated by French and US assistance and later New Delhi also borrowed Russian technical support has been facing tragedies from the beginning,’ the newspaper quoted him as saying
 
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Air\frame doesn't represnt any replica of any super aerodynamic khoj,
Pakistani engineers designed it, don't go off complaining, you asked for Pakistan's part in it... you got it!
Stop looking around for more stuff to complain about.

What suit are you talking about, really.
Explaining this to you is a waste of time, seems to be having no effect on you!!!
RWR, DAS and MAW (check these out for yourself, I wont be force feeding you this info)

This sounded more like a middle school project than an any super chinese contributed piece of art.
HDMS? do you even know what that is? Middle school project?

Grow up kid!
 
What is it with you PDF guys.

EVERY SINGLE WEAPON SYSTEM EVER DESIGNED FROM LAST 100 YEARS has failures. Some times failures upon failures.

nothing works first time has intended the very first or second time BUT EVENTUALLY they get ir right

THIS IS WHY THE INDIAN MILITARY ARE INDUCTING as we speak 40+ war ships including nuke subs & carrier

fighter jets and combat helicopters advanced SAM systems and early warning radars.

THE RANGE OF INDIA,S ARSENAL OF INDIAN ORIGIN IS MASSIVE AND VERY IMPRESSIVE, far superior to any other ASIAN country BAR CHINA :victory:
 
My problem with questioning the indigenous capability of India is of its importance in the grand scheme of things. In a conflict, will it matter if the fighter or tank or ship across from you is Indian made or procured from another country?
I would understand if the Indian members had a problem with this, homegrown products not only help industries advance, but also provide jobs...but as a Pakistani, it is of no relevance where these weapons come from...our problem should be that these weapons are pointed right at us. So from that perspective, I dont feel all superior because the overwhelming Indian force facing us isnt a product of India.
 
My problem with questioning the indigenous capability of India is of its importance in the grand scheme of things. In a conflict, will it matter if the fighter or tank or ship across from you is Indian made or procured from another country?
I would understand if the Indian members had a problem with this, homegrown products not only help industries advance, but also provide jobs...but as a Pakistani, it is of no relevance where these weapons come from...our problem should be that these weapons are pointed right at us. So from that perspective, I dont feel all superior because the overwhelming Indian force facing us isnt a product of India.

Weapons buildup is nothing but a burden on the country's economy.Either both India and Pakistan are overdoing it(well I think it mostly India these days),or we are locked up in a really sorry situation.
 
ashok leyland stallion

ashok_leyland_stallion.jpg
 
RIP OFF OR NO RIP OFF.

Help from Russia Israel or Europe IT MAKES NO DIFFRENCE.

The fact is plain & simple

NO OTHR COUNTRY IN ASIA bar China & Japan can or is building planning to build INDENGIOUS

NUKE SUBS
Aircraft carriers
Attack helos
Guided missle frigates
guided missle destroyers
combt planes
main battle tanks
radar systems.

" THE RANGE OF INDIAN INDENGIOUS WEAPONS IS IMPRESSIVE"

for what is supposed to be a predominant weapons importer.

IEXPECT THE INDENGIOUS CONTENT TO RISE FROM 20% CURRENTLY

TO 50% BY 2020 easily
china has done all this decades ago and are also working on aircraft carrier so modify your statement to south asia
 

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