‘Departure from slavery of Western thought’: India’s finance minister ditches ‘colonial’ briefcase

[mastaan]

How much disinvestment has happened yet ?
how does mentioning labor reforms and not doing anything worth even discussion ?
why should tax payers sustain Air India ?
Is it a great achievement that she has allowed aadhar to be used at Tax payment ? if yes you have very low expectations.
what happened to consolidation of banks ?
what happened to labor laws ?
What happened to real estate issues ?
Land pooling ?
none of these are called major reforms they are expected when you intend to grow at 8%.

Don't mind me saying this.. Why are you simply ignoring what is in the budget and debate it and go on and one.. Re: your questions

- Divestment can be done many ways - Govt has made its end meet without selling silver.. Why hate them for that?
- Labor reforms - She did not need to mention it. She did because she wants to take it on next. It will be a massive pain and am glad she wants to start addressing it
- Air India - This was not about Air India. This was budget of union of India. Nevertheless, if the govt was not concerned about Air India and Jet why do you think Govt opened FDI in Airline Industry.. Wink wink
- Won't comment on expectations points
- Banks Consolidation of PSU banks.. I think more than 16 banks have been consolidated in last 10 years.. SBI has been tasked to do that and they have been at it quiet intently, even before this govt
- Labor laws - mentioned twice by you
- Real Estate is not addressed, but Infrastructure is. So, That is a fair call. What specifically you think was missing there?

- Again, you have not commented on what is in there.. only rambling it will not help, will be one thing for sure that will not help. Let's debate about issues.

 

[lightoftruth]

Well you have to consider the ultra rich that make 1-5 crore do not even make 1 Lakh people. And the once earning above that (5<), not even 10 thousand. So, I don't worry about super rich. They may have to pay another 10 lakh or so additionally. Chinese put 45% tax on their ultra rich.

All those super rich have business here, and that's why they are super rich. If they move out of India in droves nothing will happen to us. But they will loss everything they had.

So you're saying the government shouldn't tax the rich, but the middle class? Why not count the tax breaks they get. They can lapse their tax payments for two or three years and pay a small fine. If a middle class guy didn't pay his tax, then he will have his salary slashed, heavy fine for each month passing and what not.

Also, the corporate tax was actually reduced. So, it's more of a balanced budget when it comes to the ultra rich.

Its not about they are just 1 lakh let them go if they want to. its about why they are just 1 lakh ?

common sense tells if you intend to grow you give incentives to money generators which trickles down through investment to provide jobs .

What she has done is just opposite.

 

[mastaan]

Liked your post a lot, thanks for the summary!

But bumping down from 30 to 25% (if thats what you mean here) corporate tax rate for small + medium is not that big a deal esp if you look at what the collection is in first place.

If you ask me, they should just have a tax free threshold (for businesses) just like done with income tax....and that can just define "large" companies above that in first place.

Govt really has no business to tax small + medium companies if you ask me.

Even large companies, as far as possible should be as low tax as possible especially in growth industries that can really provide wealth/jobs or both.

I think the whole corporate tax issue is a larger one and is not a severe issue in india currently (not many are really showing taxable income) and therefore might not have been addressed.

I think she is tinkering with areas considered as sacrosanct... Reducing 30% to 25% is a BIG barrier for India Taxman (that 30% was almost a biblical or Ramaynical for us Indians).. Plus, the new app that the govt will provide to calculate your taxes free of cost, plus removal of angel tax (for start ups) and ensuring that individuals and businesses can't be troubles if they filed taxes are just stars.. I think they are just experimenting.. Haven't had the time to look at the impact numbers. But i think the intent is good and promising. Am happy about that.

What will be more interesting is the labor reform and the upcoming 5G auctions.. both are big capital events

Its not about they are just 1 lakh let them go if they want to. its about why they are just 1 lakh ?

common sense tells if you intend to grow you give incentives to money generators which trickles down through investment to provide jobs .

What she has done is just opposite.

Mate, ultra rich do not get money in salaries.. they get money as dividends or money from sale of their companies.. Both come under capital gains.. They are not touched. I think you are getting troubled by an insignificant issue.

for the 1 lakh people (don't know the source or its correctness) - They are mostly CEOs and CFOs.. Their companies will easily pay them more to keep them break even.. It is a foot note of this budget, not close to main lines

 

[lightoftruth]

Don't mind me saying this.. Why are you simply ignoring what is in the budget and debate it and go on and one.. Re: your questions

- Divestment can be done many ways - Govt has made its end meet without selling silver.. Why hate them for that?
- Labor reforms - She did not need to mention it. She did because she wants to take it on next. It will be a massive pain and am glad she wants to start addressing it
- Air India - This was not about Air India. This was budget of union of India. Nevertheless, if the govt was not concerned about Air India and Jet why do you think Govt opened FDI in Airline Industry.. Wink wink
- Won't comment on expectations points
- Banks Consolidation of PSU banks.. I think more than 16 banks have been consolidated in last 10 years.. SBI has been tasked to do that and they have been at it quiet intently, even before this govt
- Labor laws - mentioned twice by you
- Real Estate is not addressed, but Infrastructure is. So, That is a fair call. What specifically you think was missing there?

- Again, you have not commented on what is in there.. only rambling it will not help, will be one thing for sure that will not help. Let's debate about issues.

Disvestment- has govt made its end meet ? then why are increasing taxes on rich ? are we growing at 8% ? Are we on our way to 5 trillion ?

Air India- How many bidders have come ? do you know ?

PSU Banks- No only SBI merger has happened ,rest are pacing with a turtle it seems.

Labor Laws - should i say anything ? she just mentioned them and moved on ,like wtf ?

Real estate- Lakhs of people (middle class) are affected by it and no mention ? is it justified ?

any news on new smart city ? or new SEZ ? Land pooling for SEZ ? anything new ?

 

[Nilgiri]

On the top of my head why should super rich pay 42.7% tax ? developed countries like US has lesser tax burden .

The argument here is do the rich spend the extra few % that is taxed now (at highest marginal rate)...mind you whatever it comes to with any deductibles in first place...better (to larger society well being) than the govt could?


Otherwise why not just push it down to 0%? or other extreme 100%?

If there is some give/gray in this analysis, then again its best left to people in the end to judge and vote upon.

Say if the extra extraction from here (from super-rich), essentially gets spent on mass sanitation programs and better water/essentials delivery with big long term benefits......even accounting for whatever bureaucracy inefficiency is involved (20%, 40%, 50%?)...stuff that obviously has not performed well when left to the "market" purely (with the lower highest marginal tax rates) and previous govt apathy etc etc.........that should all be left again for ppl to vote on how it all percolates to them in the end right?

You do bring up good point on PSU privatisation, it has been lacking steam in term 1 overall, but let us see this 2nd term. Also its important to note, simply earning (for short term fiscal injection into govt finance) from selling equity wont necessarily improve the performance of those assets either....unless you allow better legislation/allowance for flexbility for private sector to make performance-based decisions.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Its not about they are just 1 lakh let them go if they want to. its about why they are just 1 lakh ?

common sense tells if you intend to grow you give incentives to money generators which trickles down through investment to provide jobs .

What she has done is just opposite.

Your argument hold water if the government is doing nothing and then ask for the rich to pay up to maintain their lavish spending.

Nope, there is not many incentives for the lazies, but there are for the poor. Government brought a good fiscal discipline too. Fiscal deficit went down to 3.4% of GDP from 4.2% few years back. And the revenue collection is showing double digit growth.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Kindly elaborate the Socialism in the Budget. I went through the entire Budget and I didn't see anything that has something to do with Socialism. Not many freebies to anyone.

Well. Taxing is the super rich is one. People were expecting no income tax till 5 lakh INR. And increase in 2 INR cess for Petrol and Diesel. Come on....

Already India taxes around 32% of the super rich. Now they have effectively increased to 42%(35% and then 4% cess on education and 3% on something else). Now US, Europe are some of the nations even taxing more than us. But they are completely capitalist and not ashamed to show it. They are not afraid to defend an business interest of their company in their country nor anywhere. Its not the same in India, when businessmens dont get support for contentious issues but yet are expected to pay the highest taxes in the world. Nor is our ease of business greater compared to western world.

The way I see it, companies will stop giving more dividents to shareholders (when companies are led by majority shareholders) to escape this tax regime. Or re-register themselves in some foreign lands and issue dividents there. In this time more money is needed to fuel growth. Taxing an extra 7% is not fair to rich nor unemployed people. Atleast could have reduced corporate taxes for all companies to 25%.

 

[mastaan]

Disvestment- has govt made its end meet ? then why are increasing taxes on rich ? are we growing at 8% ? Are we on our way to 5 trillion ?

Air India- How many bidders have come ? do you know ?

PSU Banks- No only SBI merger has happened ,rest are pacing with a turtle it seems.

Labor Laws - should i say anything ? she just mentioned them and moved on ,like wtf ?

Real estate- Lakhs of people (middle class) are affected by it and no mention ? is it justified ?

any news on new smart city ? or new SEZ ? Land pooling for SEZ ? anything new ?

Taxes on rich (edited) - if only you read my response.. I am happy to clarify any further

Air India - No bidder can come.. Because the damn thing is locked for FDI.. They have opened it in this budget

Banks - They have stated to merge 27 banks in 6 .. What does she have to say in Budget for that?

Labor Laws - You can be frustrated as much as you'd like. But it is no walk in the park and she did not need to mention it.. But she did and the only reason i think she did was because she wants to do something about it

Why do you need smart city? a SEZ? Why won't you look at the import duties being implemented to give one last short to Indian entrepreneurs to get going..

You realise that last almost 1 year, world is in a sluggish zone .. you can keep on beating the drum for 8% and nothing.. reality is, this is a start. Like i said in my original message.. lots still need to be answered.. but some answers emerging

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Well I'm saying what budget is presented in, ranking wise figures lot lower than what opposition party performance (for healthy democracy) should be in discourse of any "worry"/"concern" to long term indian institutions.

Focusing on the party in power, should be the policy and implementation and result stuff......showboat presentation stuff can just be ignored, they dont really matter. If latter comes at cost of the former, then you have to show proof of that....I don't see any evidence that presenting the budget papers in some new wrapping takes away from the content and delivery of the policy....which we all have to judge later only to begin with.

Hence why I brought up the big takeaway from the budget to judge it upon next year....along with keeping to fiscal deficit target of 3.3%. Is there anything especially bad policy wise with the budget?....because we should be talking about that instead of literally new wrapping for presentation at parliament.

Was expecting tax concessions for exports to electronic manufacturing and EV related technologies for a start here. Instead they provided an 1.5 lakh INR interest free to those people who buy EV, when the biggest range EV is 128km by Tata Tigor till next month when 300km range Hyundai Kona makes debut. They could have just reduced taxes to 5% on EV to encourage that instead of eating around the head. Simply other than railways no job boost incentives could be seen on the budget. Though they need more money for houses for all, drinking water, LPG connections stuff, employment generation has to be a prime concern as well.

 

[Nilgiri]

Was expecting tax concessions for exports to electronic manufacturing and EV related technologies for a start here. Instead they provided an 1.5 lakh INR interest free to those people who buy EV, when the biggest range EV is 128km by Tata Tigor till next month when 300km range Hyundai Kona makes debut. They could have just reduced taxes to 5% on EV to encourage that instead of eating around the head. Simply other than railways no job boost incentives could be seen on the budget. Though they need more money for houses for all, drinking water, LPG connections stuff, employment generation has to be a prime concern as well.

I think they want to get the broad liquidity flows in order with the re-capitalisation and merging of banks etc given credit crunch...which is really the biggest hold back I would say (in current structural snapshot of indian economy)

Big instrumental sectoral push (exporters, job producing companies) will be theme next year I think. They want to do things sequentially somewhat. Let us see.

It will mark one more year of GST, EPFO and any other formalisation data streams etc...at that point to use underlying analysis and form best policy on it.

In interim they should push whatever legislative reform they can....state level where possible too.

 

[lightoftruth]

Taxes on rich (edited) - if only you read my response.. I am happy to clarify any further

Air India - No bidder can come.. Because the damn thing is locked for FDI.. They have opened it in this budget

Banks - They have stated to merge 27 banks in 6 .. What does she have to say in Budget for that?

Labor Laws - You can be frustrated as much as you'd like. But it is no walk in the park and she did not need to mention it.. But she did and the only reason i think she did was because she wants to do something about it

Why do you need smart city? a SEZ? Why won't you look at the import duties being implemented to give one last short to Indian entrepreneurs to get going..

You realise that last almost 1 year, world is in a sluggish zone .. you can keep on beating the drum for 8% and nothing.. reality is, this is a start. Like i said in my original message.. lots still need to be answered.. but some answers emerging

They had 5 years its not like they moved out of UPA .

Aviation - Heard about Jet airways ? can you explain which free market will sustain air India but let another private one die ? Why ? What economic logic is that ? Just because its a national carrier ? how does that affect me as a tax payer ?
no bidder will come ,reason is first you create a mess and expect a third party to invest in it ,while the people who created the mess still will be controlling it.

Banks- Isn't it her responsibility to tell what happened to mergers announced earlier ? that impacts thousands of bank employees and their millions of customers.

Labor laws- I mean if you are just showing intention and doing nothing ,its better to keep quite.

why do i need smart cities ? really should have asked the govt that ?

why do i need SEZ ? - at a time of trade war when company's are looking to move out of china should we be even asking this question ?

i think govt also knows the world is sluggish ( doesn't appear so if you look at us economy) then why is govt beating the drum of 8% and 5 trillion ?

 

[prashantazazel]

A good budget, in general.
The government needs to start collecting tax from the businessmen and property owners who stay away from the electronic/banking system. A lot of business is still being done in cash, and there is a lot of tax fraud/under reporting going on.

 

[mastaan]

They had 5 years its not like they moved out of UPA .

Aviation - Heard about Jet airways ? can you explain which free market will sustain air India but let another private one die ? Why ? What economic logic is that ? Just because its a national carrier ? how does that affect me as a tax payer ?
no bidder will come ,reason is first you create a mess and expect a third party to invest in it ,while the people who created the mess still will be controlling it.

Banks- Isn't it her responsibility to tell what happened to mergers announced earlier ? that impacts thousands of bank employees and their millions of customers.

Labor laws- I mean if you are just showing intention and doing nothing ,its better to keep quite.

why do i need smart cities ? really should have asked the govt that ?

i think govt also knows the world is sluggish ( doesn't appear so if you look at us economy) then why is govt beating the drum of 8% and 5 trillion ?

Aviation.. That is just hoping everything in one go. Govt's job is not to secure private enterprises, while the competition exists. Air India is their problem because it is a state owned enterprise. It is wrong emotionally, but it is a legal fact. Govt can't let a national carrier go under, like they can't let LIC or SBI drown. That Jet was taken out of the system was because of the stupidity of their promoter and his greed. He could have filed under NCLT and gotten a better deal, but he wanted to keep his equity.

This govt got the insolvency code in the system.. Do you know the impact it has had?Do you know how many years it took other economies?

Banks - Yes, and she should answer on the floor of the house.. But not in budget. That is just an impractical expectation. ask your MP to raise that question in Parliament and she will respond (and there i totally agree, THAT is her job).. But in a Q&A session, not in budget

Labor laws - Again. She is 1 month old in the job. You can call her a failure for India using the labor law made in 1948 (Factories act). If it gets addressed, it would be moving mountains. .We have unions everywhere.. Banks will close, doctors will strike, railways will strike, airlines will strike, PSU factories and private factories will strike.. But, i don't see my job as defending the govt or making your comfortable. All i ca say is i see someone saying I want to do something about it and personally i like it

Smart cities - I think we have two different views of how economies work. May be better over a glass of wine than so much typing.

Am not a spokesperson for the govt. But when you see an effort, not acknowledging it is also little unfair.

It is OK to have a vision and fight for it.. Rather than being pessimistic about everything.. if you heard the interview of chief economic advisor, talking about the economic survey, which came one day before budget. He highlighted so many challenges and problems and then the NDTV spokesman asked him.. Why do you still believe in 8% and his simple response was - Because it is worth a fight. If we do not aim for the moon, how will we land among the stars... ? This is India's economic moonshot... Criticism will help it, but some words of encouragement once in a while will also be handy

A good budget, in general.
The government needs to start collecting tax from the businessmen and property owners who stay away from the electronic/banking system. A lot of business is still being done in cash, and there is a lot of tax fraud/under reporting going on.

Great point. I think the push towards non cash economy and 2% TDS on withdrawl of more than 1 or 2 crores, encouraging SMEs to do trade over non cash means is just a first step.. The trick is to end the cash economy (as you rightly pointed out).. I completely missed that point in my summary...

Was expecting tax concessions for exports to electronic manufacturing and EV related technologies for a start here. Instead they provided an 1.5 lakh INR interest free to those people who buy EV, when the biggest range EV is 128km by Tata Tigor till next month when 300km range Hyundai Kona makes debut. They could have just reduced taxes to 5% on EV to encourage that instead of eating around the head. Simply other than railways no job boost incentives could be seen on the budget. Though they need more money for houses for all, drinking water, LPG connections stuff, employment generation has to be a prime concern as well.

Agree... I think something on EV will help... And the roundabout on EVs could have been done simpler ways

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Bekar ki bakchodi. Nothing else to show for themselves, so change a damn briefcase. And yes, it needs a damn handle.

Shouldve got rid of English, but a briefcase....

 

[lightoftruth]

Aviation.. That is just hoping everything in one go. Govt's job is not to secure private enterprises, while the competition exists. Air India is their problem because it is a state owned enterprise. It is wrong emotionally, but it is a legal fact. Govt can't let a national carrier go under, like they can't let LIC or SBI drown. That Jet was taken out of the system was because of the stupidity of their promoter and his greed. He could have filed under NCLT and gotten a better deal, but he wanted to keep his equity.

This govt got the insolvency code in the system.. Do you know the impact it has had?Do you know how many years it took other economies?

Banks - Yes, and she should answer on the floor of the house.. But not in budget. That is just an impractical expectation. ask your MP to raise that question in Parliament and she will respond (and there i totally agree, THAT is her job).. But in a Q&A session, not in budget

Labor laws - Again. She is 1 month old in the job. You can call her a failure for India using the labor law made in 1948 (Factories act). If it gets addressed, it would be moving mountains. .We have unions everywhere.. Banks will close, doctors will strike, railways will strike, airlines will strike, PSU factories and private factories will strike.. But, i don't see my job as defending the govt or making your comfortable. All i ca say is i see someone saying I want to do something about it and personally i like it

Smart cities - I think we have two different views of how economies work. May be better over a glass of wine than so much typing.

Am not a spokesperson for the govt. But when you see an effort, not acknowledging it is also little unfair.

It is OK to have a vision and fight for it.. Rather than being pessimistic about everything.. if you heard the interview of chief economic advisor, talking about the economic survey, which came one day before budget. He highlighted so many challenges and problems and then the NDTV spokesman asked him.. Why do you still believe in 8% and his simple response was - Because it is worth a fight. If we do not aim for the moon, how will we land among the stars... ? This is India's economic moonshot... Criticism will help it, but some words of encouragement once in a while will also be handy

Understandable but,
Their should be a policy difference between UPA & NDA and not just about implementation and less corruption.
India needs to move away from this welfare economics trap if we don't intend to stuck in the middle income group.India needs true right wing economic policies.
I still feel if they really intend to grow at 8% and 5 trillion they should hit the ground running and not waste time.
Economic survey predicted growth at 7 % ,which looking at history we won't be able to hit.
it all seems to appear govt plan to keep with welfare schemes,PSU etc and increase inflation to try and reach 5 trillion.
Not a good policy economically or politically.