Denmark bans kosher and halal slaughter

[Arya Desa]

In the Rig Veda there is numerous hymns of animal sacrifice to the 'Gods' so who are we to judge?

You do realize Hinduism is born from Buddhism not the Vedas, right? Vedicism has no concept of moksha, samsaara, karma, anything that is considered Hindu.

 

[Militant Atheist]

Starve to death or learn to put away their dogmatic nonsense.

I think its because of recent incidents.
Man, world used to be a lot safer, these fundamentalist nutjobs are screwing everything up, if we stay silent because of terror they created (and continue to create), we have lost this war!

 

[Arya Desa]

So you are trying to debate theology and religion based on your own personal beliefs?

Start a new religion. You don't have to agree with Islam.

I guess what I want is an Islamic perspective on why they do it and the justification in Islam for it. Maybe you can tell me?

 

[Dr Gupta]

You do realize Hinduism is born from Buddhism not the Vedas, right? Vedicism has no concept of moksha, samsaara, karma, anything that is considered Hindu.

The Rig Veda are considered apauruṣeya, what you are talking about is the Upanishads where the concept of atman = brahman and other philosophical viewpoints are talked about.

This is a very humane way of killing a chicken

 

[Arya Desa]

The Rig Veda are considered apauruṣeya, what you are talking about is the Upanishads where the concept of atman = brahman and other philosophical viewpoints are talked about.

The Rig Veda is shruti but how many people read the Vedas or partake in Vedic rituals? Upanishad is a latter addition. It doesn't change the fact the Vedas have no relevance in modern Hinduism besides the respect given to the word. Is there a single Brahmin that keeps 3 sacred fires in his house?

 

[Dr Gupta]

The Rig Veda is shruti but how many people read the Vedas or partake in Vedic rituals? Upanishad is a latter addition. It doesn't change the fact the Vedas have no relevance in modern Hinduism besides the respect given to the word. Is there a single Brahmin that keeps 3 sacred fires in his house?

Depends on which school of thought you ask for example the Arya Samaj would highly disagree with you on that.

On a personal note I feel meat is to be eaten why else we have the teeth and stomach to absorb it? why does it taste good and give us nutrition? my family are vegetarian but that is their personal choice.

 

[SipahSalar]

This isn't about the animal this is about the GOD. The animal is dead regardless, but why does the god ask for it to be killed in his name? It seems hypocritical to me that a peaceful god demands a sacrifice in his name.

That is hippie non sense. God is God, He is King of the universe, He can command whatever He wants. And being peaceful has nothing to do with what kind of relationship you have with livestock.

 

[Dr Gupta]

I have a problem with people killing endangered animals like Tigers, Whales, Elephants etc but Lamb and Chicken is okay for me.

 

[Saiful Islam]

What difference does it make how you kill it. It will die at the end of the day lol.

 

[Nawaba]

I guess what I want is an Islamic perspective on why they do it and the justification in Islam for it. Maybe you can tell me?

In the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, Abraham is told by God to sacrifice his son Isaac and at the last minute is stopped, at which point a ram is provided to sacrifice instead. In Islamic tradition, it is typically believed today that Abraham is told to sacrifice his son Ishmael, not Isaac, though the Quran does not actually state which son. The Quranic story can be found in Surah (chapter) 37, verses 100-111, wherein it only refers to him generically as a "son". Due to this ambiguity, there has been a lot of debate over which son is the intended sacrifice and there are many versions of each view recorded. The narrative of Abraham almost sacrificing his son is called the dhabih in Arabic. This story, as all stories from the ancient past, has been altered and adapted over time. The multiple versions suggest that the dhabih was originally an oral story that had been circulating before being written as it is in the Quran and in additional commentaries. Norman Calder explains, "...oral narrative is marked by instability of form and detail from version to version, and by an appropriate creative flexibility which makes of every rendering a unique work of art." Each version is indeed a "unique work of art," differing from another in various ways to present certain ideas, such as the importance of Ishmael over Isaac.

Abraham sacrificing his son, Ishmael; Abraham cast into fire by Nimrod
The general narrative pertaining to Ishmael in Islamic literature describes the sacrifice either as a test or as part of a vow. Some versions tell of the devil trying to stop God's command from being obeyed by visiting Hagar, Ishmael, and Abraham. Every time the devil says Abraham is going to sacrifice Ishmael, each person answers that if God commanded it, they should obey. Eventually, Abraham tells Ishmael about the order and Ishmael is willing to be sacrificed and encourages Abraham to listen to God. Often, Ishmael is portrayed as telling Abraham some combination of instructions to bring his shirt back to Hagar, bind him tightly, sharpen the knife, and place him face down, all so that there will be no wavering in the resolve to obey God.

As Abraham attempts to kill Ishmael, either the knife is turned over in his hand or copper appears on Ishmael to prevent the death and God tells Abraham that he has fulfilled the command. Unlike the Bible, there is no mention in the Qur'an of an animal (ram) replacing the boy, rather he is replaced with a 'great sacrifice' (Zibhin azeem). Since the sacrifice of a ram cannot be greater than that of Abraham's son (and a prophet in Islam at that), this replacement seems to point to either the religious institutionalisation of sacrifice itself, or to the future self-sacrifices of the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his companions (who were destined to emerge from the progeny of Ishmael) in the cause of their faith. From that day onward, every Eid al-Adha once a year Muslims around the world slaughter an animal to commemorate Abraham's sacrifice and to remind themselves of self-abnegation in the way of Allah. Later, Histiorographical literature, however incorporates the Biblical narrative in which a ram is provided which is killed instead of Ishmael.

The actions of Ishmael in this narrative have led him to become a prominent model of hospitality and obedience. This story in the Quran is unique when compared to that in the Bible because Abraham talks with his son, whichever it is to believed to be, and the son is thus aware of the plan to become a sacrifice and approves of it. As noted above, in some versions, Ishmael makes sure in different ways that neither he nor his father hesitate in their obedience to God. In this way, Ishmael is a model of surrendering one's will to God, an essential characteristic in Islam.

Though it is generally believed by Muslims that Ishmael was the son who was almost sacrificed, among scholars and historiographers of early Islam, there is much debate. There are such persuasive arguments for both, that in fact, it is estimated that 130 traditions say Isaac was the son, while 133 say Ishmael. Such dispute over which son suggests that the story, and where and to whom it happens, is extremely important. It is argued that the story originated from rabbinic texts and was adapted to Islam over time in order give Mecca religious importance and connect the story with the pilgrimage, which is how Isaac in Jewish versions was changed to Ishmael. Arguments by early Muslim scholars for Ishmael as the intended sacrifice include that Jews claim it is Isaac only because they are jealous that it was actually the ancestor of Muslims, Ishmael, and that the horns of the ram that was sacrificed instead hung in the Kaaba at one time. In looking solely at the text of the Quran to determine which son was to be sacrificed, there still are various views. Tabari argues that in the Quran, it is only Isaac who is indicated by birth announcements and that the announcement at the start of the sacrifice narrative means that the story is about Isaac. The strongest case for Ishmael in the Quran is that directly after the sacrifice narrative, Abraham is told of the coming of Isaac's birth, therefore, it must be Ishmael who was about to be sacrificed if Isaac had not been born yet.

 

[syedali73]

This isn't about the animal this is about the GOD. The animal is dead regardless, but why does the god ask for it to be killed in his name? It seems hypocritical to me that a peaceful god demands a sacrifice in his name.

What is this?

 

[Arya Desa]

@Nawaba THank you for this.

 

[MastanKhan]

How about ANIMAL SEX---I think it is legal in Norway or is it Sweden-----? Are they going to ban that as well!

This isn't about the animal this is about the GOD. The animal is dead regardless, but why does the god ask for it to be killed in his name? It seems hypocritical to me that a peaceful god demands a sacrifice in his name.

Remember there used to be human sacrifice in the past-----. So---what do you prefer---human or animal----the human meat was wasted-----nobody ate it---at least the animal meat is consumed by many.

 

[Arya Desa]

What is this?

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Pure savagery imho.

 

[zip]

That is hippie non sense. God is God, He is King of the universe, He can command whatever He wants. And being peaceful has nothing to do with what kind of relationship you have with livestock.

But point is like humans these animals too want food security offsprings etc ..Why a God will command one to sacrifice other ??Either God must be crazy or animals must be having some other God to pray about their food and security ..